anyone out there ever have trouble with Rockler customer service.I recently ordered a porter cable omnijig to which I was informed that there will be a $25 added charge for freight.When researching this product online the shipping &handleing charge was only $16.25. Now I was put on hold for a associate to ask her supervisor about the $25 freight charge,waiting 10 minutes I was told they would call me back.When I received the phone call back I received the news that not only is the added on freight charge correct but the promo code I gave is invalid for 15% off which is what I received for a screw up from a previous order in which I received a customers order from another state with mine being lost.Down at the bottom of the promo there is nothing stateing that the omnijig was excluded.So not only did I loss my 15% but I was being told that there was a additional $25 freight charge.Does any one know of a website that I can file a complaint with.Kneadless to say I told the supervisor that I would never order from them again and to loss my address.So buyers out there BEWARE of ROCKLER!!!! two orders ,two screwups!!!!!
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Replies
Wow! Talk about different experiences. My orders with Rockler have been complete, on-time and on budget. When I ordered the wrong item, they didn't charge shipping on the replacement.
Whilst looking to make some on line purchases I reviewed Rockler's prices and found them on the high side.
I can not comment on their service seeing as how I took my business elsewhere.
Chaim
Make your own mistakes not someone elses, this is a good way to be original !
when you send out as many catalogs as they do you need to pay for them some howWicked Decent Woodworks
(oldest woodworking shop in NH)
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Miter,
My suggestion is that you get over it and go somewhere else when you think you can get the stuff at the cheapest price.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
By the way Mel..
I never had a problem dealing with Woodcraft either..
Again, I go to the store!
All of their ads exclude the discount for Festool, leigh and other items. These are never discounted. I shop there, and use the discounts for the things they offer. One of the stores is only 4 miles from my house, so it is easy to check out the items and decide. I only buy what is on sale, and shop elsewhere. Had an item that backordered and I cancelled and the customer service was excellent. Sorry you had a hassle, but in general they are are decent retailer.
AZMO
-----------_o
---------_'-,>
-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Mr. Miter,
Whoa! I have had nothing but exceptional customer service from Rockler. I have been a customer for years, having placed probably a dozen orders, maybe more. Not a single glitch. They have one of the best customer service / technical service teams — bar none.
I would suggest calling them again on a good day. I respectfully & softly suggest that your attitude may drive the direction the person on the other end of the phone takes. Remember you can often catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I have to remind myself of this from time to time.
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
Mr Miter,
All of my dealings with Rockler have been good. Even though it's cross border, they went the extra mile and shipped a replacement part at their expense Fedex on one order I made. The original part was damaged in shipping. I always take complaints from first time posters using an alias with a grain of salt.
How were the shipping charges to Canada? I am in your neck of the woods and there aren't too many places to get tools around here. If the shipping isn't bad I might check Rockler out.
-pjw
Hi pjw,
There aren't too many places to get tools around here.
Try these; they both give you the best price you find elsewhere.
http://www.outilspierreberger.com in LaPrairie
http://www.placide.com in Beloeil
A friend of mine ordered a knob from Rocker. The knob + S&H + custom tax was just over $25. Never again he said ! And a NYW mug from Norm - $45
Best,- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
pjw,
There aren't too many places to get tools around here.
Try this one also. A little further, but worth the trip.
http://www.cej.ca in St-Jerome
Best.- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Thanks for the info on the stores, I will have to check them out.
BTW, I have enjoyed your tips and tricks in various magazines over the past few years. Keep up the good work.
-pjw
"I am in your neck of the woods and there aren't too many places to get tools around here."Here is another site for you and bricofleur to look into. Both languages too.;-)http://vieltools.com/?l=ZnI=This one had a booth in a local woodworking show a few years ago.http://elitetools.ca/Default.aspx
I see that mr.miter has never bothered to return to read or comment. Just a very angry customer trying to get back at a company. In the olden days he would have only told about 7 people if he was happy and 22 people if angry. Now he can reach thousands or more in a few minutes. Companies are going to have to recognize that their business practices have far reaching consequences. For the record I have never bought from the "accused". Spend too much at LV as it is.;-)
It depends what you're buying. If you're spending a bit of money on several items the shipping charges spread over those items is not bad. It would be a waste of money to buy a single piece of hardware though (unless it was'nt available anywhere else). From my experience, shipping charges from Rockler to Canada are just slightly higher than from Lee Valley in Ottawa. Remember to have them ship it USPS, not UPS or Fedex if you want to avoid being overcharged for customs brokerage fees.
<"I always take complaints from first time posters using an alias with a grain of salt">Good point, although the plaintive nature of the post is less likely to be trolling.
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Just my experience.
I have NEVER had a problem with Rockler. However, I have to admit, I ALWAYS go to my local store.. No phone contacts for me!
I'd much rather look somebody 'In the Eye' And ask them as politely as possible "Say that again please .. I'm not sure if you told me NO!"
I, for one, feel fortunate to have a Rockler store in town (Cincinnati). I bought most of my big iron prior to them showing up, but I'm there a few times every month looking for that odd little piece of furniture hardware, glue, screws, or gizmos that I have no idea where else I can reliably find. If for some reason, they're out of stock, they order and give me a call when it arrives next week. And I certainly don't want to spend $12 shipping on a $3 piece of hardware I need yesterday.I have ordered custom stuff or drop ship from factory stuff a few times and not had problems going that route either.Rather than a dumb look and head scratch that I get at the big boxes looking for something unusual, the staff there knows right where it is and what different sizes they have.Best of all, I feel like Norm walking into Cheers bar when I'm there. Whoever sees me says, "Hi" from across the room.Price is largely elastic to me. To not have to go to three places and try to find something on my own, or not find it at all is the classic "nickel holding up a quarter."
Price is largely elastic to me. LOL LOL LOL... I love it and then some!
Me too! But I'm a impulse spender!
The 1st time I placed an order with Rockler I wrongly keyin creditcard's security no. My order was cancelled. Then I placed another order not knowing that I was blacklisted.
From there on I only buy tools & ww supplies from Woodcraft, LV, Eaglemerica and Woodpecks. To me they are the best.
So they were protecting you and your identity. Kind of like going to the bank with your atm card and keying in your password wrong. Generally after 3 attempts, they keep your card and you have to go in to get it back.Since it was your error in entering the 3 digits incorrectly and they were acting in your best interest, why not get them to re-set the account and go for it again. Read the glowing responses from others here.Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
Have dealt with Rockler for several years & had to call customer service five times - 2x my error, once my stupidity, once their mistake & once a UPS mis-delivery. Each time the response was above and beyond any expectation (they solved the UPS problem by reshipping the entire order -expedited - and didn't charge for return of the original when it showed up.
Agree their prices can be higher than other mail order places, and some things aren't available, but i tend to scan the "Outlet" section regularly for some great deals and i have bookmarked about 10 different sites from which I buy.
Agree their prices can be higher than other mail order places..
But not by that much.. I'd have to say with Illinois Taxes going to my local store ..COST me more In Taxes that their extra charges!
Extra charges occur when you ship HEAVY items to a residence vs. a commercial delivery dock. Haven't met a postal carrier who will lug 50 Lb. packages to your door, hence the extra costs accrued. UPS and Fedex among others charge a High fee for their services. Don't blame Rockler because you too cheap to pick it yourself at the store.
"Don't blame Rockler because you too cheap to pick it yourself at the store."
Just curious - how do you know he has a Rockler store nearby? It's several hundred miles to the nearest Rockler store from here.
"Haven't met a postal carrier who will lug 50 Lb. packages to your door, hence the extra costs accrued."
Must be a local thing - the carriers here don't seem to have a problem delivering 70# Priority Mail boxes to my porch. They aren't too happy when there's 3 or 4 of them, though!
QD, you seem too quick in drawing your conclusions* . You showed up yesterday and there are folks here that have been buying tool junk via internet, mail order and phone for the last 20/30 years from everyone in the free world that can spell the word tool. MOI included.
I can tell ya that Rockler is making a fortune on the 10 to 12 % shipping charge if they have a smart traffic manager. He can either make you money or give your customers great service depending on the deal he has with the delivery companies that fight for that business. You may look at Rockler as a mom and pop/daughter firm but your wrong. They run a web site a "magazine" that now will be also sold as an on line down load and a retail store network, not to mention that they probably ship 10's of thousands of packages a month. I ordered a sale item on the 14 or 15th and got an email today that it was just shipping, I checked the ups #s and it was billed but not touched yet, tonight it was still in their rural town and ups says that it is projected for delivery by the 21st or within Rocklers self serving guidelines.
History with better/cheaper/faster vendors is much, much better, the best are Lee Valley, Highland Woodworking and Tool King in Ct. who shipped me a Milwaukee 3 1/2 hp. router in 21 hours for $6.95. This week from Pat Warner on the west coast 4 days, Reid tool in Mi. 2 days.
As far as their prices , their house brand stuff I have found to be of minimal spec or even unusable and not cheap. They are surely no Veritas. The national brands are sold mostly at max retail unless they bought a discontinued closeout. Paddy
* pun intended
Well gee! I guess the Delta 1 hp. dust collector I'm buying at $148 with free shipping is a fluke. Spending $1400 at rockler.com with free shipping and MAJOR discounts this weekend kinda takes the wind outa your sails statement. I may spend lots of money on tools--retired electrician silicon valley area ,CA but I shop very carefully and look for sale events--I wait 3-4 months for a sale sometimes if the item I'm buying costs a lot. I am a major noob in woodworking, got lots tools and wood-- know a little about woodworking--and I mean little--Thank Gawd for woodshop classes--tons of fun for this ol' fart. Have fun is my job now--and I look foward to learning from you ol' hands about my new hobby---Cherry goes for $16 a bdft. here--jealous of you guys who pay pennies for it.
16 dollars a bdft...WOW, I pay like 5.25 and I thought that was high :)
qd, I didn't mean to slight ya and I am deeelighted that you buy with such care as most of us do. I have had deals from them and in fact I just ordered that little Metabo drill to replace a very old dying 6volt Makita I use for lock and hinge screws for $80 and a pair of the fence clamps for $15.
There was no way to know that you were not a Newbie and I truly feel that their shipping charges are too high and they do nothing to expedite, just take the money. They have whacked me several times with poorly made goods, offered token discounts and made me wait months for sale items to be restocked. Their retail prices are some of the highest out there so I just sharp shoot sale items and try to let real newbies know that they need to look around. All the best .
Paddy the ex traffic manager.
Batteries dying on that old makita? I know a way to re-vitalize failing tool batteries. Take battery(if it fully dis-charged the better) put in a ziplock bag--twice even better--put in freezer for minimum 24-36 hours. Remove from freezer and place in a nice sunny spot to defrost( Be very careful and remove any and all moisture--wait until it COMPLETELY defrosts--charge as you wood* any new battery. The freezing re-aligns the electrical charge of the battery gel to a neutral field so you can get about 90% of the original battery strength. good luck
HHHMMMM--maybe I could get some cudo's from the forum members for this little known fact.
* pun intended
"The freezing re-aligns the electrical charge of the battery gel to a neutral field..."
Can you cite a reference or authority?Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. -- P.J. O'Rourke
no
I'm no expert but I ask because it seems to go against everything I know about failure modes of nicads. Large crystal growth, dendritcal shorts, cell reversal, membrane failure etc. none of which would be reversed by freezing.
I know of no way to reverse large crystal growth which is caused by extended open circuit discharge. dendritical shorts usually reform vey fast sometimes in a matter of hours and membrane failure as far as I know is fatal.
Cell reversal is best prevented but can usually be treated by total discharge and shorting of the individual cells followed by a normal charge protocol.Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. -- P.J. O'Rourke
Well,you know the saying" common sense is inversely proportional to the amount
of college education".
Following your voodoo advice at best will do nothing and at worst could ruin someones lithium ion battery.
No cudo's but you do rate a brickbat for bad advice.Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. -- P.J. O'Rourke
Follow up, The Metabo drill/driver arrived at 1240hrs and one nicad was fully(first charge is never 100%)charged in two hrs, it and the minimalist charger were hot. It seems as stout as I expected, all metal keyless 1/4" single sleeve chuck, metal drill body around the drive train, remove the chuck- put on the nose cap and insert any notched driver bit till it locks on the spring ball. Remove the cap and clamp on the cast aluminum hex angle drive. Nice unit that will do a lot of pilot holes and small screws if properly cared for.
It was probably replaced by the Mod II that is Lion powered with a robust charger, a bit driver kit and on sale for $199.
The fence clamps are one of their better adaptation of an original done in drill rod to hold a sacrificial fence against a Bies type fence, this second set will do a stop block and a short crosscut fence section.
totals;
$15.99 clamps
79.99 drill kit
11.75 s&h 5.62 lbs. on the invoice but 8 lbs. on the UPS label???
9.28 NY state tax as they have a store on the western NY border.
$117.01 total
I guess I didn't do too bad but the shipping hurts and the tax!!! Yikes-the only difference between thieves and politicians is that one of them wear masks. After all I did buy this stuff in Medina MN.
All the best, Paddy
qd, thanks for that tip but this has not been made for 15/20 years and IIRC I made 6 or more spot welded tabbed sub-C packs in the handle and it is sooo old it has a ZZ-TOP BEARD and the drive train bushings are oval. Never the less I will try the chill cure and keep it for the grand kids to drive home dopey butter screws into bass wood cut offs. I am looking fwd to seasoning the batteries on that little Metabo but ,,,
I have and have used other Metabo tools and found them to be very solid, performing well. At a 50% discount it may be a sell off with the kit having two 4.8 batt. an angle drive attachment, a 1/4" keyless chuck and a case. It could be poor market placement if folks bought it to drive deck screws. Paddy
Looking for a Tank of Liquid nitrogen on the Net right now.. Maybe I can get my old batteries up to 99%...
And a very thick slab of foam rubber so I do not 'bump' the battries and have then shatter...
Edited 7/19/2008 6:11 am by WillGeorge
Liquid nitrogen? I got a tank 60 feet high in front of my plant! Come up with the game plan and let's start re-habbing batteries. Call Norm, I bet he has at least a dozen or two we can fix!
T.Z.
I just have two 'clunkers' No brand names allowed .. But the drill is yellow!
Kodak makes drills?Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Sells for $22.99 here!Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. -- P.J. O'Rourke
But the drill is yellow!?? I would suppose..??
Neve had a Yellow Kodak Camera.. I think?
"History with better/cheaper/faster vendors is much, much better, the best are Lee Valley, Highland Woodworking and Tool King in Ct. who shipped me a Milwaukee 3 1/2 hp. router in 21 hours for $6.95. This week from Pat Warner on the west coast 4 days, Reid tool in Mi. 2 days."
Might be my location but I've never had luck with fairly quick standard shipping from Highland Hardware. Lee Valley is sure fast though.
This is the problem with dealing in sales and rebate mumbo jumbo. I have had excellent luck with Rockler (same for Woodcraft). You can get a 10% off of many items (with the usual power tool and other exclusions) by having a craft club membership of some kind. You can hate the woodworking stores for what they have to do to stay in business but there are few out there serving our needs.
I also have orderd lots of times through Rockler without an issue. The closest woodowrking store to me is a bit over 24 miles one way so I buy lots of stuff from Rockler on line. I expect that you can find someone with a bad experinece with virtually any company that deals with large numbers of customers. I hate it when problems do arise but I doubt anyone can be perfect all of the time.
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
Every once in a while I hear people complain that they have customer service problems with everyone they deal with and then start reciting the laundry list. I suspect the problem may be themselves and not the people that try to put up with their attitude.
Hi byhammerand hand,
You have a very good point, further more it has seemed strange to me that those often demanding extremely high levels of customer service are the same people looking to pay the very least for what they buy. In restaurants these people leave the waitress they gave a hard time little or no tip, they feel bad if a business makes any profit. Many businesses actually have a policy of politely telling rude or difficult customers to go else ware. I am not for one minute suggesting we accept poor service but we should expect to pay accordingly for the service we seek. We are lucky to live in North America and have a choice, we can shop at Woolmart, Rockler or Lee Valley each with their own pricing structure and service level. Then again at each and every store, people are people, all different and each of which can have a bad day. Every body deserves a second chance and as someone else already said you catch more bees with honey than vinegar.
Blackbird
I have had nothing but great experiences with Rockler. I shop at the local store and on-line and have found them to be very helpful. I also love getting the Rockler Rewards. We recently reloacted and moved from an appartment to a townhouse and I had to completely rebuild my shop. I got great prices (although you do have to shop around a bit for specials). I spent a lot of money there and found them always willing to help me save a few buck even to the point of suggesting cheaper alternatives from other stores
All
I don't have a problem with customer service so much as very slow shipping at very high shipping prices. This came to a head with me today and I made up my mind on Rockler and respectfully told them so as stated in the following email.
Just my opinion, but I think it is helpful to share these kinds of experiences with the forum.
Folks,
Your stuff, compared to other suppliers I buy from (Lee Valley, Tools for Working Wood, Packard and Woodcraft for example) seems to take a lot longer to get to me.
For example. As a weekend woodworker, I’ll often spend some time online Sunday evening or Monday morning ordering things I might be needing for next weekend’s shop time. Whenever Rockler is in the mix, it seems not to make it by the next weekend, when all the others do. For this reason, I generally buy more from the other vendors.
This morning I placed an order (see attached) and, thinking about the shipping time, I opted to take the three-day UPS option. I thought (my mistake) that the $20.01 charge was the whole charge. After I committed to the order I realized that the $20.01 was IN ADDITION TO the $15.75 shipping charge already added in. That makes it $35.75 for shipping! This for one miter gauge and one router sub base with an after-discount price of $144.48. My shipping came to 25% of the cost of the materials.
That’s excessive.
I am not asking for a refund or any other consideration here. I am not blaming you or questioning your right to do business as you see fit. I just want you to know that because of your slow and overpriced shipping and processing I will not be buying from you in the future except as a vendor of last resort.
I hope this information helps.
Best regards,
Good letter. The last time I bought from them was about 7 years ago. Now I remember why I have not been there since then. Or have any intention of doing so in the future.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Good letter. Did you ever hear back from them? Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Did you ever hear back from them?
Not yet, Tom. But if I do, I'll definately post the remarks.
Frank
Did you ever hear back from them?
Well, I never did get a reply from Rockler.
The package did arrive in 3 days. I ordered Monday morning and it arrived Thursday afternoon.
Here's the low-down on the shipping.
Package is 9lbs. If I were to ship it back to Rockler today, according to UPS published internet rates, it would cost me $27.10 for 3-day or $12.52 for Standard Ground. (Coincidentally Standard Ground has a transit time of 3 days... hmmmm.)
Rockler charged me $35.75. If they paid "street prices" of $27.10, they marked it up $8.65 or 32%. (8.65/27.10). Or, another way of looking at it is that their profit is $8.65 on a $35.75 sale, or 24%.
BUT BUT BUT... I doubt they paid 'street price' for shipping. I'm sure a company like this gets a nice discount for all that business. If I assume a 20% discount, then they paid $21.68 for shipping and charged me $35.75. That would mean they marked up shipping charges by $14.07 or 65%. Or we can look at it as a profit of $14.07 on a sale of $35.75 for a 39% profit.
We will never know the exact shipping charges Rockler paid, but it's safe to say they marked it up anywhere from 32-75%
As for the 'handling" part. I don't accept the this is a reasonable concept. It is actually more costly for them to "handle" the retailing of the same product. If bought direct by mail or internet, they are actually saving handling by not having to ship it to retail locations, receive it, unpack it, stock it, price it, inventory it, pay salaries, lights, rent, etc. So, unless they want to give a "We-Didn't-Have-To-Retail-It" credit, how can they have a "Handling" charge to ship it direct?
Companies that do not have a brick and mortar retail channel have more of a 'right' to charge a handling fee. They give an implied discount for shipping direct. Companies like Rockler, with retail outlets, for the most part, charge the same for retail or direct purchases. That's when the 'handling' fee gets a little tough to take.
I want to reiterate what I've said in other posts. I have no problem with Rockler's products. And, believe it or not, I don't disagree with their right to charge what they want. It is their business decision - and IT IS a calculated business decision on their part.
I'm just saying that as informed consumers we should evaluate those kinds of decisions and it SHOULD influence our buying decisions.
Look at it like this... one company exploits an opportunity to increase profits by jacking up shipping and handling fees, thus putting them in a better position than their competitor. Then the next company exploits the opportunity to increase market share by charging lower shipping and handling fees than their competitor. It's a beautiful thing. I love the free market system! It works so well. But only if informed consumers make informed buying decisions and allow the actions of the sellers to influence the buying decision.
Frank
Don't know where you live. But $15.75 for ground seems reasonable for a miter gage and router sub-base. I ship a lot of items in my small business and I don't think you could ship it back for what it cost you to get it. It's hard to see that the 3-day upgrade would be so much, but I am betting Rockler makes no profit on shipping.I am not defending them, just making an unbiased conclusion considering the escalating fuel costs.I have only bought from Rockler maybe a dozen times in 20 years. I do not remember it taking excessively long to get an order. My last order was a few months ago.I do agree that Lee Valley is superb in it's order fulfillment and delivery time.I also want to commend you on your letter to Rockler. Suppliers need this kind of feedback when people move them to the last choice position on the supplier list. Sounds like you are giving them an opportunity to work with you. I hope they want to. In your letter, you come across as a reasonable, non-aggressive, non-high-maintenance customer.Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
<I am betting Rockler makes no profit on shipping>An outfit that size will get rates that an individual cannot come close to. Fair enough, volume counts. Having said that I suspect that they make a bundle on "shipping & HANDLING". When I have stuff sent from various sources via USPS, I can see the amount the post office charged. Then looking at the original invoice I usually see a markup of 40-80% on that charge. Pure profit.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
I agree here. Ironically, what is "handling"? If you notice I think "handling" is a way of making profit that is non-taxable because how can you put a definate money value on it?
Handling is typically the labor charge for their shipping department. Bean counters want to justify every part of the business model. The warehouse is a non-profit-generating space — the space in the back that nobody sees and doesn't directly lead to sales. The people who work there do not increase directly the bottom line.To put this thing in perspective, go down to your local pack and ship and see what they charge to box your items and send them UPS ground. I guarantee it is more than most of these companies charge us for shipping and handling.However, ...It does appear some companies make a profit on S&H. But my point here is just because the value on the stamp on the outside of the box is less than what they charged does not mean we have been ripped off. Look at the companies who offer FREE shipping. You can usually find the same item cheaper; with S&H added, it comes out to about the same price. When these companies offer sales, they often come with stipulations like:"Current discount offer of 10% off does not apply to items with free shipping". (See Woodpeckers current promo on clamps for example.)BTW: This is not a tax loophole — ALL Profit is taxable!
Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
I know all profit is taxable but with handling how do you determine the profit within. How do you calculate how much it takes for someone to put peanuts in a box and put tape on it. That is where I'm saying there could be a tax loophole. It is easier to define your shipping cost because you know what your bottom line is from your carrier, but the price you affix to your handling in my opinion there is no clear way of defining how much that is, or I know of no formula that the bean counters use to develop the price for handling.
If there is no direct calculation of handling and lets say S&H is 9.95 and assume we are getting a simple router base plate and based on weight it only cost about 3-5 dollars to ship leaving between 6.95-4.95 for "handling". Now, are you telling me it cost on average 6.50 cents to "handle" a router base plate? If it does I'm in the wrong business. Lastly, do you think this whole 6.50 would be reported as profit, probably not, a creative bean counter will find a way to say this is all a cost to the business.
Bio
There are many ways to approach it. But it is done by averaging. So some people pay a little more and some pay a little less. Overall it averages out to the company.Handling is basically Total dollars spent per month on direct cost of shipping supplies (boxes, tape, labels, peanuts, etc) + total spent on indirect costs (labor, warehouse costs, etc) divided by the number of orders in a month gives an average per order. Do this over several months and cost average will be even more accurate. That said, I do not appreciate being nickel-and-dimed to death. It's not "fair and accurate" to every person. But then neither is charging based on the dollar amount of the order. As a business owner, I hate having to charge packaging & handling fees. In my sports photography business, an average sale is $33. Tax is $1.98. The outside and inside envelopes cost me $1.16. The postage is $1.83. My Total Cost: $4.97. It takes 5 minutes to sort, package, and print labels for an order. At only $24/hr, this would add $2.00 making my average cost add-on to the package $6.97. I charge everyone $7.00 and let it go. This cost is slightly less for my $15 package; slightly higher for my $40 package. Technically I make $0.60 on s&h for the $15 order and lose $0.60 on the $40 order and a $0.03 average profit on every order. Complains are rare even though the stamp on their envelope says $1.83. I am betting it is a similar situation for many internet businesses.As far as profit goes, income - expenses is profit. They don't have to calculate profit per order just profit per month.Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
BTW: This is not a tax loophole — ALL Profit is taxable!
Good points here!
You are right. All profit is taxable as income in the end whether it comes from a mark-up on goods and services or on "handling."
I think where the business motivation lies is in making the shipping department a "profit enter" instead of a "cost center."
By every rational the "handling" part of "shipping and handling" should be included in the cost of the product. It is a cost of doing business that, when factored into pricing can be established as a fixed cost. "Shipping" on the other hand is a variable cost - shipping an anvil from CA to NJ is more costly than shipping a plane from IL to MI.
It makes sense for the "shipping" part to be billed on a case by case basis.
When companies start trying to capture and allocate every cost, they begin allocating costs to the handling process. They get the numbers to a place that works and someone says "hey, there is revenue potential here!." Bingo, the shipping department becomes a profit center - they want to bill more for handling than they spend to run the department and make a contribution to corporate OH and Profit.
There is no better proof of the fact than to look at companies who charge S&H based on dollars spent. So that if your order is between $0-$100 the S&H is x... between $100-$300 the S&H is y... etc. In these situations it would be more expensive for S&H on a $350 Plane going from DE to VA than it would to ship the $90 anvil from FL to OR. The company doesn't care what the actual charges are. They toss that logic out the window. At the end of the year, their shipping and handling revenues are a predictable percentage of total sales.
As buyers, we should be looking at all of this and discussing it here. When companies use inflated S&H charges and other tactics like aggressive cross-selling at checkout that complicates the process and may cause us to click to their advantage, they are taking calculated risks. The upside is enhanced revenue/profit, the downside is potential customer dissatisfaction and loss of business. They have a right to do that. We have a right to decide, discuss and bring it to the forum.
God I love America!
Speaking of ALL profit is taxable...you ain't whistling Dixie. I once was pastoring a church, and on my fourth! day in the office, my financial administrator was arrested and charged with embezzlement--charges from his previous employer. We discovered that he had been stealing from us as well--totals of over $300,000! What really got him in hot water was the DA reported the thefts to the IRS--all that money that was stolen was taxable income! He had to pay back taxes and penalties on all of it. Tragic story all around. Back on subject a bit...when shopping on eBay, I avoid sellers that have inflated shipping charges--just trying to make more dough on the item they are selling. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Many EBAY sellers seem to capitalize on not revealing shipping & handling charges unless prospective buyers send a private message to them.A few years ago, I bid on an item for a computer that was damaged beyond repair. SO I did not need the item. As luck had it, I won the bid at $3. When I discovered that S&H was $15, I told the seller I would pay him for the item and he could sell it to another buyer. He said no can do. It came 3 weeks later, USPS with a stamp for $2 and some change. I know why he refused to let me out. This was my 1st encounter with hidden handling fees and eBay sellers. Never got burned again because I would not bid on a item until I clearly know above bid charges.Greg
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Yep. That's what I'm talking about. Most of the eBayers out there are good, honest folks. I was watching an auction for Starrett 6" rules. There was one seller who wanted to charge $10+ for shipping and the ubiquitous "handling". Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
I ordered a rail coping sled and some feather boards on April 20th. They still haven’t arrived. They were apparently shipped on the 24th. They used I-Parcel. I have been calling almost daily to get them to look into this for me. They keep promising to send an email with an update that never comes. I called them yesterday and they informed me it was my responsibility to look into where the parcel has been lost in shipping. I’m less than impressed.
Zombie thread
Arise zombie thread and do my bidding.
Trouble with Rockler?... not so much.
Trouble with Veritas? Yes! I can't stop buying tools from them.
There must be a support group for this kind of addiction.
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