TS feather boards and hold-downs (in practice)
weymouth2
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
Greetings
When I see “intro to table saw”-type instructional content on the web, Ch. 1 is always about safety (as it should be). At some point though, the use of feather boards and/or hold-downs is advocated, for both safety and quality-of-results reasons.
But when I see videos of people actually making a project, I don’t often see feather boards or hold-downs.
What gives? In practice, do you use them? If the answer is “sometimes”, when do you use them?
Thanks.
–Neal
Replies
Sure do. I use a feather board more frequently for accuracy reasons, but I almost always use a push board that also holds the work piece down as I push it through. About the only time I don't is when the work piece is large and there is lots of distance between the blade and fence as when cutting a plywood panel.
I use featherboards all the time. Mine are the plastic Rockler variety that lock in the T-Slots. About $15/ea. They are very quick and easy to use.
https://www.rockler.com/adjustable-table-featherboard
I don't use them much on a table saw. Sometimes on a rabbet, where the board pulling away from the fence would make the rabbett different.
I do use a variety of things to push the work and hold it down. A couple of push sticks. One of those Grrrripper things on narrower rips. And rather than a hold down blocks, I find rubber grout floats far superior, and usually cheaper: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Anvil-12-in-x-4-in-Fine-Rubber-Float-57471/300960452
I use featherboards more often on a router table, and one of those newfangled upright featherboards for resawing on the bandsaw.
Hello Neil,
Yes, always the magnetic feather board to the side (pushing the work against the fence) with it's front feather just a little bit before the blade (so it doesn't push the workpiece into the left side of the blade).
A sprung hold down in a similar position on the other side of the blade, located on the top of the fence via a T-track, keeps the workpiece down on the table as it runs along the fence. A second sprung hold down is located further along the fence, just before the place that the blade comes up - if there's room for it (it's 3/4" wide). The front holdown has a side pusher too, to use instead of the magnetic feather board if it suits.
I use a push stick to shove the workpiece through so that my hand never get near the blade. I have a variety of diffent sizes and shapes to suit the work being pushed.
*******
Other safety features always used are:
* The steel riving knife that's just a smidgen less high than the blade and moves up and down with the blade. It's also never more than 2mm from the curve of the back of the blade and is 3mm thick to the blade's 3.2mm thickness.
* The blade guard that's attached to the riving knife with a locking swivel gubbins. It goes up and down with the blade and the riving knife, completely covering the top of the blade. It comes off only for non-through cuts, so the workpiece can go over the blade. The workpiece is then the blade guard, of course.
* The fence half-length face that ends just before the back of the blade, which gives room for the workpiece to expand to the right of the blade if the tension in the wood is opening up the cut as it's made.
* The blade brake, which stops the blade rotating within 2 seconds of pressing the red button, via an electronic gubbins that uses the motor as the brake.
* A sliding carriage, which means no need for sloppy cross-cut mitre gauges or those queer MDF/plywood sliding constructs that you lads must make instead. The slider is pushed from a side position well out of line of the blade. It also makes cross-cutting far less likely to result in a user-induced skew of the wrokpiece as it's being cut.
* Savage dust extraction, via a 3 HP sucker with two 1 micron fine filters, which keeps the lungs safer from the irritants and (hopefully) clouds of carcinogenics.
Lataxe
My tablesaw is equipped with the JessEm Roller Holdowns which I love because they not only ad a significant anti-kickback protection but also provide more consistent cuts since by design they push work pieces towards the fence. This is extremely helpful in a one man shop when dealing with larger workpieces.
On my router table I use a combination of JessEm Roller Guides and the Bow Featherpro feather boards, those newfangled ones with foam fingers. I will say after using the Featherpro for 6 Mos or more I will never go back to conventional feather boards they are fantastic. I also use them on the bandsaw on occasion.
One incredibly painful kickback from the table-saw to the groin while cutting a fence-guided dado (hence no riving knife), doubled me over and sent me to bed wondering if I should go to the ER. The speed at which this happened was shocking. Not only was the physical pain excruciating, it was a blow to my ego - how could I be so stupid to let this happen?
Now I always use some combination of feather board, hold-down and push stick. Like another poster, I prefer Rockler feather boards which are easy to put in place. For me, using them also acts as a reminder for the need to always work safe.
Shop Apron - not only do they carry tools but they do a pretty good job protecting your valuables.
My delta has a flat non the top of the fence.I added an aluminum track the size of a saw table track and use feather board hold downs on difficult cuts
My usual cut set up is a magnetic featherboard, sacrificial pushstick, and (almost always..), a left of blade position.
I don't use feather boards much on the table saw as I don't generally use the table saw for things where they would be useful.
By and large the TS is best and safest when used for through cuts. There is very seldom any advantage in a featherboard in such circumstances.
They come in handy when you need to ensure a rabbet is a precisely even depth, but for the main use of the saw - dimensioning sheet goods and ripping timber parallel to a jointed face, jointing (on sliders) and crosscuts, a featherboard offers no advantage.
I would argue that most of the time, if you need a featherboard on the table saw, a router would be a safer way to do the job.
You wrote what I was thinking much more clearly.
Rob,
I can't agree. Certainly there are operations with the TS where feather boards and hold downs are unnecessary or impractical - cross-cutting with a sliding carriage or dimensioning a large sheet, as you say.
But many operations, particularly ripping operations, benefit from feather boards, hold downs and push sticks because those things steer the wood so you don't have to.
How many WW vids have you seen where the sawyer has his right hand perilously close to the blade as he completes a work push-through? Worse, the left hand is pushing the workpiece against the fence and often comes even closer to the blade, with the pushing force likely to thrust the hand into the blade should the workpiece do a little dance-and-fly.
Lataxe
I will take the middle ground in this debate. While I can't see using using traditional feather boards, either commercial or shopmade, on a tablesaw other than for a few specialty operations; I do believe in add on safety devices. Since my 35 year old Unisaw came equipped with a truly awful blade guard which also served as a splitter with anti-kickback pawls and seldom was ever mounted on the saw I have tried many solutions, including one similar to the one Lataxe shows in his picture, sold under the Craftsman brand 45 years ago, boy I hated that thing, then I went to a set of big yellow rollers that slid in an aluminum track, brand long forgotten, that proved serviceable but flawed. Since then I've retrofitted a Saw Shark blade guard and riving knife to the Unisaw, a huge upgrade over the factory guard and installed the JessEm Roller Guides which may be the near perfect tablesaw accessory, it greatly improve not only safety, but cut quality as well and does it unobtrusively enough that I actually use it. That I think is the key, any add-on safety device needs to be unobtrusive, flexible, and easily removed and reinstalled if it's not compatible with an operation. So a tip of the hat to my Canadian brother's at JessEm for making a near perfect safety accessory, now only if it was more affordable for the average hobbyist.
I think one of the best things to come from Sawstop is that all of the competition has improved safety on their saws as well. Table saws sold for home use 30 years ago and more had the worst blade guards possible. It seems they were designed to be taken off immediately, and never used again.
Everyone seems to have a good riving knife, at least. And really, a riving knife, if designed into the tool, is a great feature and costs practically nothing to manufacture. It's unobtrusive, and hence offers no reason to remove it.
There was a post about a week ago from someone who lost an eye from an aftermarket riving knife, sold for saws back in those dark days. Things are definitely better today.
I use the featherboard much more often since I got the magnetic one. Much easier to set-up, adjust and reposition. Sometimes I find my board wasn't as square as I thought, or the fence wasn't exactly parallel for a long board.
Can you tell explain what value you see in having a feather board in front of the blade offers?
Typically none. Particularly for ripping. I don't know about others, but I normally cut parts from random widths. Not only is a feather board unnecessary but it would have to be repositioned between every rip- an awkward waste of time.
If the piece being cut is so small or narrow that the hands are too close to the blade then a push stick will work fine, a push stick is not a feather board.
Taking unecessary risks is very brave, no doubt. Small boys and even pretty ladies will swoon at the daring sawyer, especially as he completes many plank-cuts casually yet rapidly, whilst smiling and winking at them (the boys and ladies, not the planks).
On the other hand, a chewed-up finger is not very attractive, although no one cares (especially you) if it's just a fingerboard finger.
************
To answer Mr 5995, the advantages of a featherboard in front of the blade are:
1 It means you don't need to use your left hand to keep the board pressed to the fence. Using your left hand in this way can often bring it close to the blade; and it's generally pushing towards not just the fence but also the blade, as the cut completes.*
2 The featherboard always exerts an even pressure, unlike your human left hand when used to press the board against the fence. This makes not just a safer cut but a more even cut.
3 When you use a fingerboard to press the workpiece against the fence and a hold-down to press the workpiece down on to the table, you can stand well to the left of the blade line, using a push stick to send the board through the featherboard, hold-down and blade. There's far less risk of a kickback with a hold down and featherboard, but if there was - or a knot gets spit out - you won't be in the firing line.
No doubt some hurrying fellows will moan about "the extra time it takes". But all those extra 10 seconds to adjust the featherboard for the next plank will not add up to the time wasted as the chewed or missing finger wounds heal over. And then there's the suffering, inconvenience for the rest of your life and the bill.
But they're your finger .... at least until the hospital incinerator or the worms get them. :-)
* Did you know that the British guidelines for using a tablesaw in commercial premises was long this: planks to be ripped must be pushed through the blade with two long notched push sticks, one in the right hand to push the plank forwards and one in the left hand to push the plank against the fence, whislt standing to the left of the balde line. These guidelines came about for a reason.
Lataxe
I guess it could be useful for the inexperienced, but I will stand by my reply.
I am disappointed and dismayed however, to find out after years of cutting countless miles of material that I cannot stand to the side, out of the line of a potential kickback without using a feather board, who knew?
As for British guidelines, I think we "hurrying fellows" on this side of the pond made our thoughts on that pretty clear back on December 16, 1773... :-)
Got to go now, I have several ladies waiting in the shop to swoon over my daring-do.
That lady has had a fright, not a man-excited swoon! I fear she may have been observing your sawing style. :-)
Still, I will congratulate you on having got away with your fingies so far. However, there's always the possibility that "never" becomes "the first time", as it has and will for many blase about safety aids and their lack of need for 'em because they are so good at table saw sawing. See this survey analysis and report from your very own g'mint:
https://cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/statsaws.pdf
From page 15:
"Based on the investigations of the incidents occurring between January 1, 2007 and December 31,2008, which allowed for the identification of unspecified saws, it is estimated that there were about 79,500 injuries reated in U.S. hospital emergency departments associated with able/bench saws. Of these, an estimated 38,300 injuries occurred in 2007, and 41,200 injuries occurred in 2008.
Of the total injuries, the victim was operating the saw in 76,100 (95.7 percent) cases; and in the remaining 3,400 (4.3 percent) cases, the saw was being operated by someone other than the victim; or the saw was not in operation; or was being repaired/maintained.
Lacerations (64.0 percent), fractures (12.5 percent), amputations (10.2 percent), and avulsions (7.9 percent) were predominant and accounted for most (94.6 percent) of the injuries. Most of the injuries were to fingers, which accounted for 69,700 injuries (87.7 percent), followed by 5,400 (6.8percent) to hands. The percentage of injuries requiring hospitalization was 6.7 percent compared to an average 4 percent of hospitalizations associated with all consumer product-related injuries reported through the NEISS system. About 68.4 percent of the victims were between 15 and 64 years old, and 30.7 percent were 65 yearsold or older. About 97.2 percent of the victims were males".
Lataxe, probably a lily-livered TS user.
PS And how many nasty lacerations are there that go unreported?
I used to have a set of hold down rollers that I loved very much.. can't seem to figure out where they went ;(
I use shop-made finger boards. I learned how to make them in Jr. High shop class and I consider these to be a primary tool for both accuracy and safety.
I've had a few blow up on me cutting large stock on the TS, that is why I now own a bandsaw.
I am interested in the magnetic version since I can see some utility in ease of setup but haven't yet convinced myself these would be strong enough.
Perhaps I should just suck it up and buy a set to try but $$ is $$.
Those Magswitch feathers are strong enough for all normal woodworking tasks, assuming your table saw has a proper iron or steel table. They won't clag-on to aluminium or plastic, of course.
They're also good on other steel or iron-tabled machines, such as a router table - although a lot of those are made, these days, of some sort of composite that lacks the iron.
Mind, they are a bit expensive now. I paid less than half of the current price about ten or 12 years ago.
Lataxe
I don't use the riving knife or feather boards because most of my work doesn't require it and my blade guard is not friendly for cross cuts. BUT, I have push sticks with hold down so things should not fly up. I also don't stand directly behind the cut but off to the right. And I THINK about each cut and how to do it safely and can bump the power off switch if need be. I never use the TS when I am tired or upset with a project. Walk away, have a cup of tea, watch a shop talk vid.
Recently I made a wine rack that required a lot of repetitive cuts that COULD lead to fatigue and carelessness. I installed the blade guard with anti kick back pawls and the roller hold down. No problems at all.
I have had warning kick backs from the TS and it is the one tool that I approach with extreme caution. The wood shop has lots of things that can hurt you, The one instance that comes to mind was a project that required a lot of chisel work I was very careful to keep body parts behind the sharp edge. When I was all done and wrapping up for the night, I walked too close to my very sharp marking pencil that was hanging over the edge of the bench. I keep the first aid kit handy.
To address what I think is the OP's original question again which was do we think additional safety devices should be used on a tablesaw, I think the consensus is yes, now as to what form these devices should take there is less agreement, so I will try to lay it out as I see it and I know some will disagree with me and I respect your right to do so.
Featherboards-I don't see the value in them. Having a feather board in front of the sawblade seems unnecessary(kickback usually occurs at the back of the blade) and too fussy. Human nature says if isn't simple it won't be used. Even magnetic ones which I question how much true anti-kickback protection they offer would need to be adjusted for every board you rip, no thanks. To get any downward pressure from featherboards most of us would need to modify our fences to provide some type of t-track to mount featherboards on and there's no guarantee that the featherboards would not actually push the stock away from the fence slightly.
For me an effective safety device has to be simple and require a minimum amount of fussing, because I know that's the only way it gets used. That is why I will again strongly recommend the JessEm Roller Guides they check just about every box in what I what in a hold down/anti-kickback device. They apply force towards the fence at the rear of the blade, something featherboards simply can't do. This not only prevents kickbacks but also results in cleaner cuts. They require minimal adjustment. Set them to the thickness of the stock you are cutting and you can rip any width board without any further adjustments. If you rip mostly 3/4" stock you will find yourself hardly ever changing the setting. They are flexible, if I am doing a narrow rip I can simply removed the front guide giving me plenty of room for my push stick while maintaining the safety of having a guide at the rear of the blade. I know they are expensive, but many of you don't hesitate to recommend Festool products which are in another league price wise so why pinch pennies when it comes to safety?
https://youtu.be/I7b-i8Llv6w
PS. I am not paid in anyway to endorse JessEm products simply trying to provide a solution for any woodworker looking to increase the safety of their tablesaw.
I started a new thread to ask about using the JessEm because I'm interested in buying them, but I'll summarize my question here: How do you maneuver around the roller bar when cutting narrow stock, face-frames, etc? Looks tricky and based on a couple of videos I've seen, not safe.
See your thread
👍
As I mentioned above but should elaborate her, I used anti kick pawls when I cut the narrow stock for the wine rack, Also, when I have to cut a few pieces of narrow stock against the rip fence, I try to see if there is another method. Don't like things trapped against the fence.
My original question was not do you think you should use, but do you actually use (I’m concerned that, as you suggest, if it’s a pain to set up or fiddle with, you won’t use them). More people say “yes” than I would have guessed. Thanks for your insights/experience on Jessum, and the link to demo was quite helpful. The other brand I’ve seen might be the ‘yellow one’ someone mentioned earlier, called Board Buddies.
I’m more inclined to go with the hold down (especially after having seen the demo) than feather boards because I’m not really seeing the physics rationale for feather board. Looks like the hold down improves safety and cut quality, those are two important boxes to check.
One feature emerging from this thread is as follows: "I won't use safety devices on the TS if they slow down my rapid pace of work".
Now, I can understand how that might be a factor in some sweat shop run by Biffer Bustard, a 250 llb bully ready to "let-go" his temper, fists and enployees at the least little delay. But why do lads want to go like the clappers in their hobby workshop? Are they anxious to get out of there?
There is no virtue in eschewing safer practices and procedures out of some strange hurry to get things done, which is perhps more a case of laziness than a genuine need for speed. It's the same compulsion that makes some car drivers habitually break the speed limit and overtake on blind corners. They just can't be bothered to drive properly.
Lataxe
“[Deleted]”
Great post, David. My sentiments exactly. Biffy Bustard .. Love it!
Regards from Perth
Derek
This has devolved into a typical Ford v Chevy v Dodge debate, with a side argument about seatbelts.
Featherboards are invaluable for straight rips on the table saw because they keep the work flat against the fence.
Having tried most featherboards on the market, I'm an enthused convert to Bow. (And I drive an '05 GMC diesel with 45k miles.)
Bow also makes an awesome Guide PRO featherboard for resawing on the band saw. You'll resaw straight every time if you couple the Guide PRO on the infeed with double stacked Bow horizontal featherboards on the outfeed.
IMHO
Actually, I use feather boards because they help push the stock against the fence thereby giving me a more parallel cut.
I've used the rollers and as I mention I do miss mine.
Sculling about the Fine Woodworking website I came across this vid from 2009 about making raised panels on a table saw. Have a look from 1:40 for about 20 or 30 seconds.
https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/shop-projects/video-raise-panels-with-a-shopmade-tablesaw-fence
Would you do this on your TS? I can think of oh so many reasons why I wouldn't, including the ten to do with my love for my dear digits, another two to do with my essential paws and some more to do with not wanting to be very stupid.
Mind, that was in the olden days, when sawstops were just a gleam in whatisname's eye..........
Yet, some lads will now hold up their still-extant 10 fingies and boast that they do that sort of thing all the time and look, Ma, yes hands. One can only hope that the gremlin is not listening as it will surely arrange a-one of its customary pranks oft played upon the over-confident.
I don't know how I'm going to sleep tonight now. Visions of that jig for guiding you hands into a saw blade won't let me!
Lataxe, all a-shudder.
One reason, no doubt, the yellow Gripper was devised. Or, modifying the design so the jig would slide along the fence with the panel clamped in place. An OSHA moment for sure.
"Mind, that was in the olden days, when sawstops were just a gleam in whatisname's eye.........."
Um.... the video is from, as you said, 2009, Sawstops were 1st sold in 2004. And maybe more pertinent, did you see the saw in the video? It's a Sawstop!
Is it really so long ago now? How time flies. I ws sure I could recall heated exchanges in the FWW forum of old (Knots) in which sawstop was just a technology thing being promoted by the inventor rather than anything in an actual saw.
In all events, sawstop table saws seem to have crossed the line from "new-fangled nonsense" to "why doesn't every saw have one" relatively recently in the mind of the US woodworking zeitgeist. And a good thing too.
**********
Wanting to extract my $9.99/month (or whatever it is) value from the FWW website, I do scull about a bit looking for this and that. It's still astonishing how many pics and vids illustrate contributors needlessly endangering their hands as they follow ossified practices that look like they emerged from some Victorian era satanic mill run by Ebeneezer Groathorder whose hobby was pushing small children up dark sooty chimneys like a character out of The Water Babies.
But I digress.
Perhaps we should hunt down the dangerous depictions within FWW, to make a list? After all, lessons showing what not to do can be as valuable as lessons about how to do.
Lataxe
That would be a good feature (“what were we thinking? Discarded practices of yore”). I often discount older articles, thinking there must be modifications and improvements since the time of publication. But surely there are also practices that have stood the test of time. To the uninitiated though, it’s difficult to know is which is which.
It would also be effective to see an old —> new practice “evolution”. For instance, on the topic of raised panels, is this an improvement in safety? (See last page):
https://www.finewoodworking.com/membership/pdf/27802/011231056.pdf?fww_sid=djMtNzRiZmFhNGYtZTE3ZS0xMWU5LTk0MmEtMTJlM2QzYjQ5YjYwfDE2MTY1ODE0NzI%3D&fww_token=4113834ce513a5342386050f1f051bfb
I don't like doing them on the table saw. I don't like standing tall pieces up on the saw. I do raised panels on the router table.
I have used the TS make raised panel doors or cut beveled edges on things. I cut the initial step like shown in a previous video, scoring four sides. The problem I usually have is there is a slight warp on the panels and the board must be held down flat over the blade. The blade is covered by the panel so that cut is pretty safe. Pretty safe, I always worry when using the TS. To cut the bevel edge, left tilt saw. I have an auxiliary fence that fits over the rip fence and slide along it. It has a high board on the blade side that I clamp the panel to and slide the whole assembly past the blade. The cut off is not trapped against anything. Hands are away from the blade, everything is clamped. I just did a chess board, tiles glued onto 3/4 maple ply that was slightly warped (junk!) before the glue up. I used walnut to edge band on the board and this was off a bit by the base warp so I had to do a bit of touch up after the cut.
I am comfortable using this method to make raised panels or bevel boards.
ysu65, you are correct that cutting raised panels on the TS is safe using a sliding tall auxiliary fence to which the work is clamped. However, I get much better quality using three Whiteside carbide bits on the router table to cut the panel, rails and stiles. I use featherboards for the panel cuts and a sled for the rail and cuts. The panel bit nearly eliminates machine marks and does not require four extra cuts for the kerf lines at the inside edges of the bevels. The router setup is overall faster and more precise. Even with the sliding auxiliary rip fence and 90 TPI carbide blade on the TS, I feel safer using the router table, not to say that the TS method is inherently unsafe. The same goes for cutting tenons. I prefer the TS for dados and slots, but those are flat cuts. Also, after fielding knots thrown by the TS, I wear a full face shield when ripping and cross cutting.
Just for fun I did the math on your saw blade... A 10" tablesaw blade with 90TPI would have a total of 2,826 teeth. Talk about a smooth cutter!! I would not want to pay to have it sharpened. :@)
It's a Diablo. I have the same on my miter saw. Both saws have zero clearance inserts. Don't get saw marks or burns.
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