Replies

1. 
   sharpologist | Apr 19, 2003 02:23am | #1

   Hi Lou, I use Tung Oil on most of the things I build or turn and I think it's great.And almost goof proof. Be careful of what you buy because there are a lot of products that  call themselves"Tung Oil" but mignt be mostly linseed oil.    Tung oil finishes are a lot more work than a lot of finishes but I think it's worth it because it lets you feeeel the wood 

   Hello to the rest of the forum.I'm pretty new here.I think ya'll got a good thang going on.

   Texas Sharpologist

1. 
   Lou | Apr 19, 2003 02:29am | #2

   Thanks for the information.  Could you tell me what brand of Tung Oil you buy?

   How many coats of oil do you apply to your finished piece?

1. 
   sharpologist | Apr 19, 2003 02:41am | #3

   I get my Tung Oil from the W.R.Dallas furniture co.It's 100% Tung Oil, I don't have any information right now because I get it from a friend with connections and the can is in my other shop. I'm at my sharpening shop right now and the stuff is in my cabinet shop.I will try to remember to get the info and e-mail you.If you sand really good(320 or 400) you can get a good finish in 2 coats. maybe 3. Just dont try to do them all at once. a common mistake. If you put on too much ,the outside will dry first and it will seep out.Texas Sharpologist

2. 
   sharpologist | Apr 19, 2003 04:03pm | #8

   New day,here's the info: W.R.Dallas Furniture Shops,17460 Judson Rd.

                                             San Antonio,Tx.78247 1-800-880-3876Texas Sharpologist

1. 
   Lou | Apr 20, 2003 06:07am | #9

   Thanks I appreciate the information.

   Lou

2. 
   JeffKurtz | Apr 19, 2003 02:50am | #4

   Lou,

   You may want to check out Jeff Jewitt's site.  Site is very reliable and lots of info there.

   http://www.homesteadfinishing.com./

   Jeff

3. 
   SgianDubh | Apr 19, 2003 05:17am | #5

   I must say a word or two, even though i'd planned to just lurk here. Lou, there is nothing wrong with tung oil as a finish used in the right place, but we have to be careful of terminology. The phrase 'tung oil' used carelessly can cover a multitude of sins, and I have to admit that I've never seen the programme to which you refer, so I have no idea what these guys that make furniture are using. But maybe the following will help a bit.

   1. Tung oil is just that. It's an oil that's applied to wood and comes from tung seeds. It's also an ingredient often used in varnish. Used on it's own, it's virtually foolproof to apply, and easy to damage in service, because tung oil used in isolation doesn't form a physical film barrier and is therefore not very resistant to liquid ingress, but on the other hand it's fairly easy to fix once damaged. It's sold in cans as (generally)  tung oil, or pure tung oil.

   2. 'Tung oil finish,' or 'tung oil varnish' is pure tung oil cut with other ingredients to produce an oil based varnish. Briefly, varnish is stuff that forms a physical film barrier to moisture ingress. Some varnishes are hard but a bit brittle, and some are soft but flexible-- the first is a 'short oil' varnish and formulated for interior use and recommended for cabinetry, etc.. The second is a 'long oil'  varnish, sold as something like yacht or exterior varnish and used in exterior applications, where flexibility is often important. Film finishes can also get damaged, and are usually somewhat tougher to fix than pure tung oil finish.

   I don't want to get into a lot of technical gobbledygook as polishing and polishes is not my strongest subject anyway, ha, ha, but it's important to carefully distinguish between the two finishes when proffering or reading advice. For instance, be careful of any advice that suggests pure tung oil can  be used anywhere-- it can, but if it's used inside enclosed cabinets, boxes, etc., every time you open a drawer or door, you'll be knocked over by the rancid, musty, reek-- and this goes on for years, even decades, so avoid that pratfall if you can, ha, ha. Boiled or raw linseed oil-- another ingredient often used in varnish used in the same way will also reek like rotten socks.

   Tung oil finish, or tung oil varnish can be used inside enclosed furniture items, but it does take a long time for the unpleasant smell to disappear, a year or more sometimes, and requires leaving the piece of furniture open for air to circulate. Other finishes are usually more suitable for interior use. Shellac in its various forms is a good one, and so too are the nitrocellulose family of polishes. Many people don't bother finishing interiors at all, and that too can be a good choice.

   I've whittered on more than I meant to, and probably confused the hell out of you, but I'm hungry as it's way past food time, so I'll leave it at that. Slainte.

   Website                                   The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh.

1. 
   sharpologist | Apr 24, 2003 01:13am | #12

   Sorry Richard, I disagree .Tung Oil finishes are very water and alcohol resistent. This is what W.R.Dallas Furniture has used for 70 years.Texas Sharpologist

   
1. 
   HowardAcheson | Apr 24, 2003 01:39am | #13

   The only way that pure, 100% tung oil can be water resistant is if many coats are applied over a long period or if you use a polymerized tung oil which goes on faster. There is no finishing product short of epoxy incapsulation that is "waterproof" and/or "alcohol proof". Even the best finish done with tung oil is not very durable or water or watervapor resistant.

   I am a little skeptical based on the phono which indicated that the product contains "petroleum distallates". Pure, 100% tung oil would not say that. Sound like the label is more marketing than accurate.

   Here is my rant about "tung oil" which is somewhat redundant of Richard's post:

   True tung oil comes from the nuts of a tree in China. A product that is a true tung oil will have a label that says either "pure" or "100%". If it doesn't say that on the label, IT ISN'T TRUE TUNG OIL . Forget about all the other baloney and look for one of those two words if you want to use a true tung oil. If the label contains any other chemicals, you are not getting a true 100% pure tung oil. True tung oil takes about 3-4 months to fully cure and will emit an odor for that time.

   "Tung Oil Finish" is a marketing name for products that the manufacturer thinks will result in a finish that mimics the finish you get from a true tung oil. These "Tung Oil Finishes" may contain some true tung oil, but most do not. Their only claim to the use of the word "tung" is that it claims to give you the appearence of finish that results from true tung oil. When you buy a "tung oil finish", you are getting a "faux tung oil finish".

   There are two types of "tung oil finishes". One is mixture of varnish, boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits (called an oil/varnish). The exact mixtures are proprietary but 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 will get you real close. Some manufacturers add a dollop of drier to speed up the drying. This same mixture is frequently also called "Danish Oil" because it gives a finish that resembles the finish used on much of the "danish style" teak furniture imported in the 50's and 60's. It closely mimics a true oil finish but the addition of the varnish resins gives it more durability and protection.

   Here are some oil/varnish mixtures:(*)

   Watco Danish Oil

   Deft Danish Oil

   Behlen Danish Oil

   Maloof Finish

   Behr Scandinavian Tung Oil Finish

   Minwax Tung Oil Finish

   Minwax Antique Oil Finish

   Velvit Oil

   The second "tung oil finish" is one made from varnish and mineral spirits. The approximate ratio is 1:1. This is really just a thinned varnish just like the stuff sold as "wiping varnish". When one two or three coats are applied, it also mimics the finish produced by a true oil but it is harder than the oil/varnish above because it does not have as much oil. It is slightly more protective than the oil/varnish type or tung oil finish. For all intents and purposes it is a varnish finish.

   Here are some thinned varnishes:(*)

   Formby's Tung Oil Finish

   Zar Wipe-on Tung Oil

   Val-Oil

   Hope's Tung Oil Varnish

   Gillespie Tung Oil

   Waterlox

   General Finishes' Sealacell

   General Finishes' Arm R Seal

   Jasco Tung Oil

   One way to tell whether the product is an oil/varnish or a wiping varnish is to read the application instuctions. Oil/varnishes are applied, then given some time to set, then wiped dry. Wiping varnish products are wiped on an left to dry (no wiping off).

   For either of the above, you can mix your own using your own proportions, can it and sell it as "My Greatest Tung Oil Finish". Then announce a new product with slightly different proportion and call it "My Greatest Danish Oil Finish". We're not talking rocket science here.

   Finally, I'm not saying that any of these products are not good. They are what they are and can give you a good finish when properly applied.

   (*) Thanks to Bob Flexner "Understanding Wood Finishes"

1. 
   sharpologist | Apr 24, 2003 03:16am | #14

   Howie,That's alot of info. But I've used Lots of various finishes on the furnitue and cabinets I've built over the last 30 yrs. I'll stand by my statementTexas Sharpologist

2. 
   darby | Apr 24, 2003 08:44am | #18

   i am new here, just logged in as a matter of fact... browsing and saw your message mentioning velvit oil.....

   i am in the beginning stages (still chiseling off the carpet glue) of refinishing the heartpine floors in my house, and had thought that velvit oil was the way to go....am i correct in thinking from your post that pure (and yes, i would definitely read the label to make sure) tung oil would do a better job?  after all of this labor, and the labor to come, i would sure like to do the right thing....and also protect the floors from my kids....as i said, i just now logged in, so if this was addressed already somewhere else, i do apologize.

   thank you

   darby

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Apr 24, 2003 04:59pm | #19

   I think I would characterize pure tung oil as a lousy finish for anything, particularly a floor. It has no durablility and will quickly pick up dirt.

   As far as I know, there is no floor product that is more durable than polyurethane varnish floor finish.

2. 
   SgianDubh | Apr 24, 2003 04:02am | #15

   Actually sharpologist, you are not disagreeing with me at all, and you rather spoilt your argument by giving out mixed messages—exactly what I was warning contributors (and recipients of information) to be careful of.

   In your message, number 11777.4, earlier in this thread you stated that you used pure tung oil from W R Dallas, and I quote, “I get my Tung Oil from the W.R.Dallas furniture co.It's 100% Tung Oil,----, etc., “ and in your  post before that, 11777.2,  you said that you use "tung oil." I wasn't really sure what finish you were describing.

   In your message 11777.13, to which I am replying, you say, “Tung Oil finishes are very water and alcohol resistent.” You then added a picture of a product from W R Dallas that is obviously not pure tung oil.

   If it was pure tung oil, it wouldn't, by definition, contain petroleum distillates (probably mineral spirits.) And if the product has petroleum distillates as a constituent,  the question is, why? The most likely answer is that it is a varnish formulation, e.g., a tung oil finish, a tung oil varnish, Danish oil, okene, antique oil, etc., all of which are a varnish formulation, with some tung oil..I’ve never seen or used that W R Dallas product, and I don't doubt its good qualities, but I know it’s not pure tung oil—it says it isn’t right on the can, ha, ha. Slainte.

   Website                                   The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh.

   Edited 4/24/2003 12:18:09 AM ET by RichardJ

1. 
   mrles | Apr 24, 2003 07:48am | #16

   Now that you have got all that trivial stuff out of the way about Tung oil lets get down to something more serious. Have you figured out the mechanics of the little plastic ball in a pint can of Guinness. They charge it up some way and it's released when you pop the top, which is apparent, but how? A friend of mine and I are researching this and will continue to do so. If you know the answer, keep it to your self for now, we would like to continue our research. :>)  ( best brew I've ever had)

   Gods Peace

   les

1. 
   SgianDubh | Apr 24, 2003 08:25am | #17

   I'll point you in the right direction, les, if you haven't already come up with a serious research strategy. It's simple really. Buy lots of cans of Guinness-- about 40 should do for just two of you for a serious 24 hour study. Crack each one open, one at a time, and pour the contents into a cool glass, not frosted mind you. Peer into the empty can and say to yourself, "Jings-- that's smart. How do they do that?" Drink the Guinness as you ponder the marvel. Before cracking the next can open, peer into the can again for a moment-- don't waste too much time on that exercise, and move on to inspecting the next can of Guinness in a similarly scientific manner.

   With two of you, you'll need to act in stereo-- two cans, two glasses-- you get the picture. After you've done the cracking thing, and inspected the fizzy gizmo, five or six times, the question will become less important, and after ten or so repeats of the experiment, it won't matter.

   There. Problem solved. Slainte.Website                                   The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh.

4. 
   MatDyer | Apr 19, 2003 06:03am | #6

   Oil finishes, whilst being derived from differing sources are chemically similar and behave similarly on wood.  The 'penetration' is generally limited to inside a millimeter of most species (perhaps more with open grained species) and doesn't build up a physical film over the surface (or a negligible one at best).  Oil does provide a small amount of protection against moisture but not much.  What it does do is impart a coloring character to wood as well as a pleasing tactile quality.  If the work in question is to be admired and stroked with deference and respect then oil is your choice.  If kids will be eating, sitting, standing or anywhere within a 16' radius of it you may want to use another finish or bolster the oil with a filming finish.  Unless you don't mind rubbing the piece of woodwork down with fresh oil everytime it scratches...

5. 
   mrles | Apr 19, 2003 08:58am | #7

   Lou

   I've used pure tung oil and tung oil varnishes for many years. Pure Tung oil is not going to give you a gloss finish, if you want gloss use the tung oil varnish. The pure tung oil is so easy to apply and so forgiving to live with. I built 14 ft of bookcase with a cabinet bottom and finished it with 3 or 4 coats of pure tung oil. I wiped on very thin coats, let dry overnight, buff lightly with 0000 steel wool. I had 3 children that set cold drinks on them I set hot coffee and it didn't' harm the surface at all. We lived there for several years and the finish still looked good when we moved. When I said thin coats I meant thin. I had a, I believe a 8 ounce bottle of pure tung oil, the room I built the bookcase in was a garage conversion. I had a closet with louvered doors, louvered doors coming into the room, a sawbuck backdoor and all my baseboards and window shutters and trim for the paneling. I had a little finish left.

   Gods Peace this Good Friday

   les

1. 
   PlaneWood | Apr 20, 2003 06:20pm | #10

   Les -

   Polymerized Tung Oil will give you a gloss finish.  It is pure Tung Oil that has been heated to a specific temp for a given amount of time.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood

1. 
   mrles | Apr 23, 2003 06:21pm | #11

   Thanks Mike, I did not know that. I have seen the Polymerized Tung oil in some of the catalogs and thought it was a mix. A lot of people including the paint store employees don't know anything about pure Tung oil, I was told by the owner  of a hardware/paint store you couldn't buy pure Tung oil. That's what makes this forum so nice, someone like you has the knowlege and willing to share it.

   Gods Peace

   les