Replies

1. 
   SgianDubh | May 14, 2002 04:47am | #1

   Sally, Is the Formby's product a pure tung oil? I'm not familiar with it. If it's a pure tung oil it won't last a week in a bar, and I'm assuming a commercial bar with heavy usage daily, but as you say, it will be fairly easy to fix, but unfortunately fixing will need to be on a weekly basis---- if it is pure tung oil that is. If it's an oil varnish mix, then perhaps 20 or so coats will give fair protection.

   You can later apply a film finish over a pure oil finish , but why not go for the film finish now, give a six month guarantee, and then charge for repolishing, and fixing all the dings and dents after that? Again, I'm assuming commercial usage, not a rarely used home bar.

   If the guarantee has to exceed 6 months for commercial usage, I think I might look at epoxy type finishes. Slainte, RJ. 

   Link to RJFurniture site.
2. 
   Alan | May 14, 2002 06:14am | #2

   Sally,

   There are various varnish formulations with tung oil as their basic ingredient, and they can be very tough finishes.  But I assume you are not thinking of one of those and are contemplating a true oil finish.

   I wouldn't consider any oil finish on any top that's likely to get wet--especially in a coffee house where it will get hot coffee spilled on it countless times every day.  Tung oil does offer more protection than linseed oil, but even tung oil won't stand up in an application like that.  Oil finishes, in effect, build from the inside out.  Because there's practically nothing between the surface of the wood and the environment, oil finishes leave the surface of the wood prone to scratching, staining and water damage.  When any kind of an oil finish gets wet it turns white.  These white stains can sometimes be removed with a dry iron--but here it would be a full time job.

   I also think the coffee would stain it brown or even black.  There's acid in coffee that can react with the tannin in various woods.  But even if there was no chemical staining, coffee all by itself is a very effective brown stain.  There would be no "repairing" those stains; you'd have to resurface it to the depth of the stain to get rid of them.

   If I can't talk you out of the icky green poly and into using a good "bar top" varnish, go with the poly.

   Alan

1. 
   salleee | May 14, 2002 10:42pm | #4

   Okay, so I'm thinking the Formby's is not the best way to go.  So exactly what is a bar finish? I'm not a big fan of oil polyurethanes, either, but I want a gloss. I'm avoiding Spar Varnish, as it's going to be too soft for a bar top, though I use it for lots of other applications.  Hope you reply quickly, as I have to start getting the finishes on this week.  Thanks so much. 

1. 
   Alan | May 15, 2002 06:36am | #7

   Sally,

   Paul and Jerry have given you the right advice.  Behlens is a very good product.  But you can usually find a bar-top varnish at a good hardware or paint store with which you can use ordinary paint thinner, naptha, or mineral spirits.  I would look for one of the good name brands.  I wouldn't try a brand X unless you have previous experience with it, or know someone who has.

   Also, as Jerry wrote, if the wood you're using has large, open pores, and you want a flat, smooth glossy finish, you will have to fill the wood.

   In answer to your question:  a bar-top varnish is simply another interior gloss varnish that's formulated to produce a very hard film--harder than ordinary interior gloss varnish.  Varnish is inherently very water resistant, and I suspect that the bar-top varnish is a little more water resistant than gloss.

   If you want to wind up with a gloss finish you're in for a little work.  Like all varnish, bar top has to be rubbed out to get an acceptably flat and speck-free surface.  Because bar top is so hard this takes some added effort.  The good news is that, because it's so hard, you don't have to go all the way through to rottenstone to get a gloss finish.  Depending on the exact look you want, you might be able to stop after rubbing it out with 0000 steel wool and wool lube.  (The wool rub out, of course, is after you have leveled the surface by sanding with wet & dry paper, lubricated with water that has a drop or two of soap in it.  You should probably go up to about a 400 grit before you switch to the steel wool).

   I apologize that I'm probably telling you things you already know.  But you said you were in a hurry, and if you don't know....

   I hope this helps.  Let us know how it comes out.

   Alan

   Edited 5/14/2002 11:42:21 PM ET by Alan

1. 
   salleee | May 15, 2002 06:30pm | #8

   Thank you for all your input, I've taken careful notes. I've had an interesting crash course in the differences of finishes, adding to the little I already know...now I actually have to go off and do it. Thanks again.

3. 
   Gretchen | May 14, 2002 02:54pm | #3

   Formby's Tung OIl Finish is a varnish/oil mix with very little tung oil--maybe only the amount that would be present in an oil varnish.  It will give minimal protection in the use you are proposing.  If it is a bar maybe it should be finished with a bar finish.  If you want a satin finish you might consider satin marine spar varnish (non POLY).  It would be impervious to the liquids being served and more flexible than the poly so more resistant to being "dinged"/chipped.

   Gretchen
1. 
   HowardAcheson | May 16, 2002 12:53am | #10

   Actually Gretchen, Formby's Tung Oil Finish is a thinned varnish (wiping varnish) that contains no real tung oil. Some tung oil may have be in the oils that are used to make the varnish but once these oils are varnish, they no longer have any of the characteristics of their orininal state.

   Most of the so-called "tung oil finishes" are really oil/varnishes as you state.

   Formby's is a pretty nice wiping varnish but pretty expensive when you consider that it is a thinned product. Something like buying watered down boubon and paying full price.

1. 
   Gretchen | May 17, 2002 04:37pm | #11

   Actually Gretchen, Formby's Tung Oil Finish is a thinned varnish (wiping varnish) that contains no real tung oil. Some tung oil may have be in the oils that are used to make the varnish but once these oils are varnish, they no longer have any of the characteristics of their orininal state

   I think that is what I said.Gretchen

4. 
   Paul_Snyder | May 15, 2002 03:43am | #5

   I'd use either Behlen's Rockhard tabletop varnish or Target's conversion varnish, though Target's poly would be a good choice also.

   If you use the Behlen's, don't thin with mineral spirits or naptha, use their thinner designed for the "Rockhard." This varnish is available at Constantine's and will stand up to a lot of abuse.

   Target Coatings, (targetcoatings.com) has a water-based conversion varnish that is as tough as nails without the chemicals normally associated with CV. Their poly is also very good, and is crystal clear. You can add some of their amber dye to make it look like varnish or lacquer. If you use water-base, you may want to start with a coat of boiled linseed oil to enhance the grain of the wood before topcoating (just make sure the oil has cured first).

1. 
   gerry001 | May 15, 2002 06:33am | #6

   I'll just (strongly) endorse Paul's suggestions here, and you're right about not using spar varnish. In order to be flexible for outdoor use, it's also relatively soft. If you do go the water base route and start with oil to enhance the grain, as Paul suggested, I'd add a barrier coat of shellac between the two.

   BTW, IMO oil does a nice job of bringing out the grain in paduk.

   What you didn't mention is if you're filling the pores, and how. You said a gloss, but I don't know how high. You need to plan both these items first, or you may have more work ahead than you expect. (Or maybe not; don't know if you've done that before:-)

   Gerry

5. 
   PlaneWood | May 15, 2002 07:12pm | #9

   Wipe on several coats of Deft Poly then machine buff to desired gloss.  That stuff lasts forever and is impervious to everything.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
   PlaneWood