Turning Madrona, boiling & other tricks!!
Well, in the last 20 hours, I’ve learned alot about the predicted diffculties of dealing with Madrona (or Madrone, depending on where you come from), and how the pros handle it for turning. Common knowledge, it appears, that Madrona is extremely unstable wood. The grief it causes turners is the stuff of legends, LOL. I’ve gotten advice from 2 of the 3 Madrona experts that have been recommended. The most intriguing reading was Steven Russell’s article reporting on his study of drying rough-cut bowls with and without a boiling treatment. His sample size was 450 bowls of different woods with different challenges (branch inclusions and such). Decreases drying time in the long run, and greatly helps prevent checks in difficult-to-dry woods. His advice on Madrona, and how much the “recipe” differs from other difficult woods really drives home how amazingly unstable this wood is.
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/boiling-green-wood.html
Current challenge is to keep the logs from splitting, have a plan for that. Going to Seattle tomorrow to pick up a propane burner and, hopefully, a 55-gallon drum for boiling the soon-to-be-rough cut bowls.
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In the old days, we just poured the boiling oil over the castle walls. ;-)
Madrone (can you tell where I'm from? ;-) ) is pretty stuff. I hope your bowls turn out well.
BIG stack of Madrone....
did you see my "wood gloat" post? http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/turning-and-carving/got-me-some-turning-stock I'm walkin' on a cloud about that stack.
I can only give info I've read, no experience turning madrone bowls. I've heard folks submerge the blanks in alcohol for a day or two. It's supposed to help with checking but warping is another matter. We don't see it over on this coast. Have fun, you have plenty of it for experimenting and I've heard it's excellent firewood.
DNA = Do not attempt ;-)
According to Madrona expert #2, the denatured alcohol approach isn't effective with this wood. I was hoping to use it, but will go to the Cajun Boiling Pot instead, LOL. Did you read the article? Hard to envision how much time it took to boil 450 bowls. Not to mention storing them. These production turners must help support the "wire rack" shelf industry.
it is also called arbutus
ron
I haven't seen the article you refer to, I don't subscribe to FWW anymore if that's where it is. I have read some that recommend the denatured alcohol approach with that species, not PEG. Seems if you are a bowl turner, you expect a percentage of rejects, that may be pretty high depending on the species and whether you turn green or dried. Bowl turners can be fairly proliferous, sometimes doing dozens a day. With your new stash, you will have enough to try any method you want, have fun.
It's not FWW
Hi, Hammer. It's not an FWW article (nor is it a video, despite the URL seeming otherwise). Just thought some folks might find it interesting. I'm not looking for advice so much as marveling at the stubborness of Madrona and Mr. Russell's thorough approach to taming it (and other less aggressively cranky woods).
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/boiling-green-wood.html
Boiling wood
I've heard the same for holly. Good work on getting something going in the Turning/Carving section.
Congrats on the wood score.
I have never used that wood, but have wanted to get my hands on some for a long time.
You state that it is unstable, which is suspect is probably close, but a commonly use term for a wood which has one of the highest ratios of shrinkage between tangential and radial, plus a large number for each of both, which means it will really change when it goes from green to dry.
After it reaches EMC, if it was finished green, I know that it will be really contorted, but I would expect it would be as stable as any other wood. IF it continues to move after being dry, I would call it unstable, but I doubt that is the case. Let me know if I am wrong about my assumption.
When using a wood like this, the closer to the pith, the harder it is to control these traits, so I wouldn't include the pith, or the tight little arcs of annual rings in your work, unless you are going really thin, and there is a lot of curve through that part, which will relieve that stress, by being able to contort without splitting.
If there are any other turners over on the Eastern US, another wood which has these high numbers is Shagbark Hickory. I have not had the opportunity to work it either, but I have got out some feelers.
Speaking of gloats, I got a call last weekend from the husband of another artist, who is offering me three nice Walnut trees, one of which is in the 36" Dia. range.Um Hun. I will have to do a turning for them from this wood though. I think I can do that. Yep. K
Better late than never??
Hi, Keith, sorry it took so long for me to see your post! From what I've read, Madrona has a much higher moisture content as it grows than most hardwoods, I would assume that contributes to how hard it is to dry it without twisting and contorting. Even with the big, big trees, it's quite difficult to get nice flat boards out of it. I'm guessing that getting it to EMC without it self-destructing is difficult (talking turning blocks here). More artistically inclined turners like to turn bowls and let them contort, I'll probably experiment with that too. But I'm more interested in perfecting the boiling method linked above to get rough-turned bowls to dry without becoming un-usable. I've heard that thin-turning has a higher success rate, but since I haven't turned my first bowl yet, that's a ways down the road.
That walnut sounds fabulous!! What a treat. Hope you post some pics for us to drool over. If you have connections in a freight delivery company, I could send you a segment of Madrona, but it won't be affordable unless you can get a BIG discount, LOL!
It seems to me the wood could be put in a steam box instead of boiling. This would allow more bowls to be down at once. Would the wood obtain the same non-cracking characteristics as the boiling wood? Has anyone tried this?
Probably not hot enough
My understanding is that the water in the wood must reach boiling temperature. That's why the wood has to be left in there for so long. I doubt a steam box would do the trick.
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