well the day has come, got the new lathe tuesday.and i went out friday bought delta turning tools ,$130.00 U.S. they seemed pretty good .(no idea?)frankly they could of given me a collection of designer butter knives from H.S.N. i would of been just as determined . and today was “the day”, and i was psyched, and nervous. these were my goals for the first two hours. cut my billets, 3 in total and with all the tools get acquainted with all. now… the fun begins,out comes the roughing gouge, did a primer with ernie conover turning for furniture last night . and honestly things went o.k.. but…….. i’m getting tear out on the 4 spur side #2 morse taper, the billets where 12/4 clear pine.now i know the best thing i can do for myself is join a club but they meet the once a month. and right now, i’m not going to approach my new endeavor with trepidation, and i’m not going to be easily discouraged. i said that three times in front of the mirror,at 5 am this morning before i took the 16 mile drive to my shop. so you are all my mentors, i have no lofty and unrealistic goals for the first …..who knows ….. i figure an hour a day, and practice etc.,etc.
thanks for all advice….. was a bear in the woods…. now….. i’m a babe in diffrent woods”expectations are premeditated resentments”
Edited 1/2/2005 8:14 pm ET by the bear
Edited 1/2/2005 8:15 pm ET by the bear
Replies
Hello. I hear ya. I could never get the hang of turning so I took a weekend long class with my local Oneway dealer. It is pretty easy, but I think it is hard to describe without seeing. I don't mean to sound discouraging but your tools are most likely not even close to sharp. You will want to invest in a bench grinder, 6 or 8" and a decent tool rest for it. I will just stick with using the gouge for now, starting from a rough round turning you want your tool rest just under the center line and as close to the turning as it will go. Hold the gouge square to the centerline, with your right hand on the handle down low by your pocket and your left hand holding the tool down on the rest. You rest the bevel on the work piece and raise the handle until the edge of the tool just touches the wood. This is the sharpest angle that the tool can cut at and where you generally want to be. Remember to keep the left hand holding the tool on the rest and the bevel rubbing, then lightly lift your right hand until it starts to cut.
If you're getting tear out from your driving spurs, you may not be seated deeply enough -- when I start a turning, I put the billet in my vise, mark the centre of my billet, use an awl to make a start hole, (on both ends) then place the drive spur on it and give it a solid smack with a mallet.
The MT spur will seat easily when you place it on the lathe, make sure you have adequate pressure from your tailstock centre. I bring the tailstock up to the piece, lock it down, then drive the tailstock centre forward until it's snug.
Vibration may cause it to loosen as you turn, so you may have to tighten up the tailstock now and then.
Good luck, enjoy your new lathe,
Hi Bear... When you say you cut your billets, I'm assuming you are trying to make legs of some sort, not a bowl. Are your tools sharp? They will give lousy results right out of the box. In either case, start with a pencil and a ruler. Draw two accurate diagonal lines on the ends where the spur drive and the cup center will be. Take a compass, place the point in the center and draw the largest FULL circle you can get on the ends. Use a rasp, saw plane, draw-knife or whatever tool you care to use and make the square into an OCTAGON. This gets rid of a lot of excess wood and help you get started. On the end where you will place your spur drive, tale a backsaw (a hacksaw will do in an emergency) and cut, 1/4 inch deep on the two diagonal lines you drew on ONE end. Use a mallet to seat the spurs INTO these cuts. This will give you a positive drive. The technique you use is up to you. I found it easier to begin with scraping type cuts, gradually progressing to skew cutting cuts.
If you're ther 'Bear' in Elwood, (I'm in E. Npt) drop me an e-mail with your phone number. Perhaps we can get together and I'll see what I can help you with. There is a Long Island Woodworkers Club meeting this Wed nite. Perhaps you are interested in comming down and joining. There are lots of turners there who can give you a REAL head-start on the lathe.
SawdustSteve
thank you steve, will do ."expectations are premeditated resentments"
Bear
If you have cable tv, every Saturday morning at 11:00 there is a 1/2 hour show on beginning woodturning on the DIY network.
Jeff
just started tivoing that show. the gentleman's last name is hout i believe. and i do like it . but that 1/2 hour just isn't enough , i'll save up a half dozen. and maybe that'll quench that need?? thank you for your reply.......b"expectations are premeditated resentments"
I recently had to turn some legs for a commission and had never really used my lathe. I purchased a dvd from leevalley.com for $20 and it saved my life. Nothing like watching somebody else do it to learn from
doug
i went flipping through my lee valley catalog and couldnt find it, but i'll try again and thanks for the head's up......b"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Glad to hear of a new Wood Turner out there. Like the others have said the spur is not set deep enough.
Check out DIY for the Woodturning show it will help for sure.
This might help as well http://www.turningtools.co.uk/wtintro/wtintro.html
Pine is pretty soft try some hard wood .
What kind of lathe? how big?
You know maybe If we get enough Woodturners hear FWW might have some decent things on turning in the mag. not stuff like the block plane trick, maybe someone needs to tell them what a skew is.
Good luck
Ronnie
ronnie thanks for your help. it's a jet 1442 variable speed, i'm going to take a picture of this instance and turn it over to you folks. and maybe get aquick assessment. thanks again for the thread .stay well.....bear"expectations are premeditated resentments"
That looks like a nice rig I bet your proud of it .
Remember that in wood turning Sharpening your tools is as important as technique.
Crumbly chips your not cutting - curls cutting. Myself I like Hardwood
That link I posted will help also.
Tons of Videos out there - Ernie Conover is good.
When you kind of get the hang of things get a Bowl Gouge it lots of fun with Green Wood
Ron
well ron proud is not the exact word i'd use ..... i have an ok lathe that i'm trying to optimize it's potential..... hows that for a load of b.s. all the credit goes to my wife... i'm a pretty lucky guy i guess. thanks and enjoy the new year."expectations are premeditated resentments"
Bear -
When you say "tear out on the spur side" it's rather confusing - to me at least. Some of the replies you've received perceived this as meaning the spur drive is stripping out on the drive end of the stock. That being the case, as they've mentioned you need to seat the spur into the end of the stock more securely and put bring more pressure to bear with the tail stock. Pine is, however a relatively soft wood and if your tools aren't sharp and if you're using them too aggressively in the roughing out stage, the end grain of pine may not be strong enough to withstand that kind of punishment.
Rough down your stock on the table saw or band saw or jointer ... the tool of your choice by taking the corners off at 45 degrees. Sharpen your tools - if you're using them out of the box, they're nowhere near sharp enough. You can remove wood with a screw driver but it won't leave a very good finish. If the tearout is from the tool, sharpening will help reduce or eliminate it.
Take small bites, even when roughing down. I approach turning as a leisure, not a sport. Trying to get too aggressive especially with a less than sharp tool will lead to catches, rough finish 'off the tool' and stripped drive center on softer woods.
Sharpening a roughing gouge and skew by hand isn't too difficult except taking care to maintain a consistent bevel angle. Bowl and spindle gouges are a bit tricky without some sort of jig to maintain both the bevel angle and profile.
I haven't been turning for all that long myself so I don't mean to sound too profound about this stuff. But take it easy until you learn the capabilities of your lathe and tools and above all - sharpen often. Even with soft pine it's not inconceivable that you'd need to sharpen whatever tool you're using a couple times during the process of producing a finished piece.
Be sure to let us know how you like turning with the skew! (grin)
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
hey dennis this my suspicion( the soft grain) i'll take a picture tomorrow and let you folks assess this instance. you have some some great advice as far as knowing the lathes limitations, and newby aggresive approach i'm 6'0" 210 lbs and go to the gym 4-5 times a week so i may be overdoing it.
aaaaahhhhh the SKEW.... well my friend very basically i've never seen a billett , transform itself into exploding pinata . that was my first exposure, i'd post a picture ....but... i draw the line at being to self -effacing. after that episode, we placed that down very carefully and thought my new mantra is - the gouge is my friend-the gouge is my friend- maybe tomorrow the skew will be too...... thanks again dennis- kent."expectations are premeditated resentments"
Bear,
Don't get discouraged. Also, don't try to make anything right of the mark. Get a bunch of blanks and just start making round cylinders, tapers, rings, astragals, coves etc. Bowls are a good way to get comfortable. Learn how to sharpen. Conover's book on Bowls is excellent. Also, Mike Dunbar wrote a book on turning for cabinet makers.
Pine isn't the easiest stuf to turn. Also, dry stock is pretty difficult. Ebay has a lot of cheap blanks of nice stock.
Frank
thank you very much for the advice biscardi, and the books will definitely looked into, ....... slainte' bear"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Bear -Every time you begin a cut remember: ABC .... Anchor, Bevel, Cut.Anchor the tool on the rest. There are two basic grips, over hand or underhand. For roughing I usually use an overhand grip if I'm going at it hard and heavy - yes you can once you get the hang of it and have the right wood. Place the tool holding hand with your fingers wrapping over the tool and your thumb underneath. The heel of your hand should be against the tool rest. Underhand, which allows more finesse with the tool, lay the tool across your upturned tool holding hand about over the second knuckle of your first finger. Place your thumb on the tool and the outside edge of your tool holding hand against the tool rest. The other hand in both cases is primarily at the end of the tool handle held low about waist high.Incidentally, all this tool holding ballet is done with the lathe running but the tool held up out of contact with the rotating work.That's A ... Anchor. The tool has to be secured and controlled.B - Bevel. .... with the exception of scrapers and certain applications of the other tools, a bevel rubbing cut will produce the best finish. Start the bevel rubbing against the rotating piece by holding the tool well up on the bevel side. Stop the lathe and hold the tool against the work while you rotate it by hand to get a better picture of the concept. When the bevel is rubbing during a cut you're taking a clean slice off the work. This is actually possible while the workpiece is still square. It's called interrupted turning in some circles. Anyway, start the lathe again and slowly and carefully draw the tool down on the rotating workpiece until ....C - Cut. When you get to this point .... you're uh .... cutting.Rule #1: Never cut uphill on spindle work. It's catch city in most cases plus the wood fibers are unsupported which produces a less than quality cut.I'm no expert turner, please don't let my diatribe make it seem so ... just passing on some of the hints others have given me -The Skew is your friend, my friend. Take the time to learn to use it in all it's permutations. Use only the lower third or half of the edge - never let the upper portion come in contact with the rotating work. As you've evidently discovered. Practice getting the feel of how it cuts by rotating a rounded piece by hand as you apply the skew. (This is a hint from one of Richard Raffin's books) Once you've learned to do a planing cut with a skew you'll buy lots less sandpaper! (grin)Happy turning ....!!Remember, even Arnold took ballet lessons!!...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
ag ain great advice and help.... thankyou..."expectations are premeditated resentments"
would like to thank every one ,for the time they spent to reply to my post and the hand holding . i sincerly appreciate it, i have a wide comfort range in my line of work. and to dunk my toe in unfamiliar waters and have some pretty exceptional help. thanks to all , and a safe and happy new year.......b"expectations are premeditated resentments"
You're more than welcome, Bear. But please let me extend the thank you's to all the people local (my turning club) and to all the authors who've written the many books I've read on the subject. I'm not preaching an original sermon ....Another thing I got from reading Raffin's books and watching his videos:Let the wood come to the tool! If you find the tool jumps off the end of the work when you come to the end of a cut, you're pushing too hard. Usually the result of a dull tool or you've been holding the tool too long. I've learned to stop frequently, relax my grip then go back to work taking shallow cuts. I like the results a lot better!Happy turning!!...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dennis,
Congratulations on getting through "your first day" turning. I know no other woodworking power tool that is more immediately challenging than the lathe. Over the years, I've had more "sweaty palms" moments with it than any other shop operation.
One reinforcement of what's been written already, and one new very important tip to consider that's easily missed:
1. The Reinforcement: Sharp tools - they're not just better, they're ESSENTIAL for successful turning. The best aid, especially for newer turners, is the jig system by Wolverine. (Woodcraft carries them, as do other online sources.) Not too expensive for the huge improvement that's immediately experienced. Then, keep a small diamond honing file (about $10 for the little Sorby yellow plastic job) and learn to use it often - several times an hour on some difficult stock.
2. The New Tip: Increase turning speed (RPM.) After the stock has been initially balanced so it's safe to do so, increase RPM right away and follow the many good books' recommendations for maximum speed vs. diameter and type of turning. In short, this is why it's so important...
The faster the work turns, the more cuts per second, etc. Faster cuts mean smaller bites per cut, which helps big time with tool control and quality of the cut. If your diameter is less than about 2 inches, and the work balanced, get up over 1000 RPM at least. The larger the diameter, the slower the RPM as a rule. (Think of surface speed - the speed at which the surface of the work moves against the cutting tool's edge.) A good way to illustrate the concept is to try to push a hand plane s-l-o-w-l-y. Can't do it...it'll dig in.
When you get to the final shaping stages, go even faster and good sharp tools will sing!
For some reason, new turners are hesitant to increase the speed, I guess out of the unconscious belief that one should take things slowly at first, until experience is gained. I was no different. It took having a "mentor" friend from our local club watch me struggle with slow speed turning before I understood this, and I finally felt like I was "getting it" with turning.
Try shaping a pen blank, once rounded, at 2000 RPM and you'll quickly see the difference. Tool sharp; rub the bevel; let the work come to the edge; appropriate surface speed; NO sudden or severe changes in tool position. Once you get the basics (including the good tips of others in this thread) turning will become the "ballet" it can be, and lots of fun.
Good luck.
John
p.s. It's more difficult to cleanly turn soft wood than hard wood. Turning pine is good practice, and cheap.
Bear,
For about the first two months, on my lathe, I could not get the spur set so that I would not get tearout...regardless if it were pine, cherry, maple or oak. I went out and bought a four jaw chuck (sears, about $59) and that took care of the issue..but it always stuck in my craw.
About 4-5 months ago I bought a new spur....longer point, sharper, etc.....works fantastic, and now I can use either the chuck or the new spur....so it wasen't me and it may not be you....
Hello the bear ,
Try using a back saw or the eqivalent to cut corner to corner after using an awl to mark center, cut about a 1/16th or so deep , this will aid in seating the spurs of the dead center. I learned it in high school wood shop a while back , o.k. a long while back , but it has never failed me on literally hundreds of turnings . Also Pine is a poor choice of stock for turning especially for a begginer.
good luck dusty
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