Hi. A FW member for some years, I am new to the Forum, please excuse any booboos!
I want to convert an older 2.00m x 1.20m laminated oak table top into a Saarinen style oval table top (we already have the appropriate Saarinen base): overall centre length of the new top approx. 2.00m, centre width approx. 112cm, thickness approx. 20mm. The oval top will be mounted on a recessed rectangular subframe which I will fix to the Saarinen base.
The top alone will be quite heavy (approx. 50kg) so impossible to work on my router table. Shaping the ellipse itself is not the problem, using a handheld router (Festool 2000) with a top and bottom guided router bit against an oval template. However, I want to under-bevel the bottom edge all round, at an angle of say 22.5° – 30°, to give the top a lighter look. As an amateur I’m wary of using a large bit in a hand-held router, due to the risk of tear-out and/or kick-back. Am I worrying unduly? Does anyone have any tips as to how best to approach the job?
One thought I had was to rout in the vertical with a 60° – 17.5° bit (similar in principle to the method I saw in a FW article last June or so but hand-held, not on the router table). Might this work? I foresee problems holding the router square to the top.
I’ll be most grateful for any help or advice.
Pete Clark
Replies
Sorry, that should read: 60° – 67.5° bit
If you have a large panel raising bit, you can use it hand held. Set your router to a slower speed, and take light passes. Or get a jack plane and have at it.
Use your router with a bearing guided rabbetting bit to hog out the waste material by cutting "steps" into the edge and then switch to a handplane. I would not use a large panel raising bit handheld, even if it has a bearing.
You say you have the means to create an oval template to cut out the initial oval. You could make a smaller one and use is as a template for the router's base to ride along for your edge treatment.
Check out Timothy Rousseau at 7 minutes, 40 seconds in Episode 7 of his table build:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2015/07/29/episode-7-shape-the-tabletop
I used a handheld router (Festool 1400) with large 45 and 60deg chamfering bits to cut an underbevel in a dining table. Took multiple shallow passes with the router speed set per recommendations of the bit manufacturer. Worked well
“[Deleted]”
My approach would be bring it down with a combination of straight and chamfer bits, then finishing with a shaker style panel raiser or a hand plane.
I've done several of these under-bevels on table tops.
My best successes have been with a scary-sharp plane (No. 4 smoother) taking VERY thin bites. That's not heavy work, though it takes some time. However, the quiet "shhhhhh" as it does its work is good for the soul.
Love that sound ! Heard a lot of it on my current project. While good for the soul, its tough on the arthritic shoulder.
Hello All. My sincere apologies for not responding sooner to all your posts - I was waiting patiently for replies to pop up in my mailbox, having ticked the "Email Notification" box at the time, but I now see that this didn't work for some reason. Anyway, thanks very much to you all for your great advice. I'm just in the middle of glue-up, so soon it's decision time. I'll give it all some thought and then make a decision (and hope it's the right one)!
Pete
I have done what you are asking about with a hand held router and had success. It is very important to have a high quality very sharp router bit such as those made by Amana or similar quality manufacturer. Work the desired chamfer angle riding the bearing on the edge in stages taking small cuts until you reach your goal. It is important to work with the grain of the wood. You will need to change routing direction based on orientation of the grain making sure you work the grain downhill. You can then use a spokeshave, block plane and or sand the final edge if needed.
Hotdogman, I've got to emphatically disagree with you. Never, ever, change routing direction. Because of the rotation of the bit, there is only one direction to rout safely. If you go in the opposite direction, called climb cutting, the bit can jerk the router right out of your hands.
Grain direction doesn't matter. Working with planes, spokeshave, drawknives, etc, by all means follow the grain downhill. But never with a router.
I recently put a 2.5 inch 30 degree bevel on the edge of an 6/4 slab coffee table using a Whiteside 1093F Straight Bit in a Festool OF 1400 with a 30 mm OD template guide using a jig that held the router at 30 degrees to the table and allowed 2 passes at a time. I used a block glued to the jig to register it to the edge. I plunged and took light passes until I reached the stop on the router set for my desired depth.
It felt safe and went quickly. I cleaned the edge with an oscillating saw and then sanded.
“[Deleted]”
John c is correct. I left part of the process for using a pattern bit with a template. The top is flipped over so there is no climb cut. However, this won't work in this case since you want to bevel the edge.
Hi again.
Firstly, terminology: I think I used the wrong angle in my initial post. Custom seems to be to measure the angle from the vertical, not the horizontal, which I admit makes more sense. So to be clear, I want to underbevel the edge at an angle of 60° to the vertical.
Secondly, as John C says, if I go the router route at all then I want to avoid any climb cut at all costs, on such a wide router bit. But I see no way of achieving this, even if for example I follow the suggestion of first rebating the edge in steps.
Am I missing something? Or is it a draw knife and jack plane job after all?
Pete Clark
Sounds like a great project and a lot of fun.
I would use a sharp plane, personally, both for the satisfaction and safety, or a belt sander for speed and the sheer joy of ripping into something with a truly lethal weapon but I would get a more perfect result with the router.
You need not get a climb cut with the router as this is dependent on the direction you move the router, not the grain direction. Ignore the grain direction in this case as you can't do anything else. Just make sure you have a good stock of 60 grit sandpaper for later.
You will struggle to hog away the waste in steps effectively. Though it can be done, it's really hard to avoid cutting too deeply and in the end you are still going to come down to making very thin passes at full depth (which is the risky part anyway) so you might as well start that way and save the hassle. Clearing some of the waste with a plane might be a less unpleasant way to do it, then perfect the edge with the router after.
How large a bit you need will depend on how deeply you wish to undercut. You don't specify the thickness of the wood, but I presume you will be using a panel raising bit and a guide template against which you will run the router rather than a bearing-guided bit which in this case is probably woodworking suicide. Yes, you CAN use a bearing guided bit, but you CAN'T cut too deep with a template. For this project to work, you really need the accuracy that only a template will produce. Unless you do this sort of thing a lot, take the time and the 6mm MDF to make a really good template.
Get the template right and the job will be perfect every time. Got to love routers.
Your risk comes from a few aspects, all of which can be managed if you think about them one at a time.
Large cutting blade exposed - keep fingers away and don't work when tired, drunk or stoned etc... Plan where your power cord is going to go. Cordless router? Suicide - stop now. You'll just die. Check that you have plenty of room around you to work too. I'd set this up on trestles - you don't want to trip over on something in the way or have to shimmy past some furniture whilst cutting something this big.
High risk of kickback - use appropriate speed (as high as does not burn - you will get more kickback if the speed is too low) and very light passes. less than 1mm per cut. That is what the fine adjust is for. No fine adjust - business cards make good shims to adjust your depth stop. Use a sharp blade - this job is worth a new one. Ensure that your body will be out of the way if the bit does dig in. Use a big router. Heavy is good as the inertia is absorbed by the mass of the tool. Wear tough clothing that will not tangle in the bit, and shoes that will stand having 3-4Kg of router dropped on them.
Noise, dust, splinters - use appropriate PPE (I pretty much always use a full face shield, N95 dust mask, safety glasses AND hearing protection) - I work in accident and medical care - you'd be surprised what bounces off the back of one layer of eye protection.
Router may tip as the cut deepens and support is reduced. - support the router on the free edge with a block the same thickness as the table if you have a large smooth surface on which to do the work. A sheet of MDF would be perfect. Put it on the trestles.
Partner may become very angry. - DONT do this in your living room next time, even if you offer to vacuum afterwards. Try not to do this outdoors at 3am unless your neighbours are wimps. Burn the box and packaging for the new router you bought to do the job. Hide the receipt where only you will find it.
I see a year has gone by and I still have not got around to replying to all you kind people with your helpful suggestions. In the end I chickened out of using a router; I just didn’t want to run the risk of damaging either myself or the tabletop, on which I’d already spent a lot of time, by using my large (Festool OF2200) router with a bearing guided chamfer bit. This router generally remains mounted in my router table; I do also have a Bosch 1400 ACE router but thought it might be on the light side for this job.
I considered the idea of using a chamfer bit or a panel raising bit and a guide template against which to run the router rather than a bearing-guided bit, as suggested by e.g. GeeDubBee and “Rob_SS” – I already had the original MDF oval router template that I could have reduced to size – but for the reasons explained finally went with the 'simple' jack plane method suggested by e.g. “user-217321” and Rob: not so fast, but very satisfying! Here are some pictures of the original Saarinen solid oak design and of my finished laminated oak ‘copy’. Not a perfect result, but functional and pleasing to the eye. Thanks again everyone.
Pete
Very nice. Thanks for the update!
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