Replies

1. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Feb 24, 2003 10:36pm | #1

   Here's what's going on. Deft is a lacquer, as you spray a new coat on it disolves the previous film and sets anew, it's an evaporative finish. The semi is mixing with the high gloss in uneven amounts because you're applying it unevenly, certain parts of the film contain a higher percentage of semi than other areas so the gloss is different.

   To fix it try this. Since you're using aerosol cans it's going on very thinly. Spray about five coats of semigloss without sanding between coats, then sand very lightly to just remove the nibs. Either spray another coat or two at this point or steel wool and wax it. The whole idea is to get your top layer of film a uniform gloss and the only way to do this with an evaporative finish like Deft is to keep applying more.

   Lee

   Lee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

1. 
   2002sheds | Feb 25, 2003 10:29am | #2

   Lee,

   Thanks- I'll use your suggestion. I had sprayed using a Campbell Hausfield HVLP spray system, and cut through the finish when rubbing out. How soon can I rub this out (more lightly this time)?

   TwoSheds

1. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Feb 26, 2003 04:56pm | #3

   Hmmm, rubbing out...what exactly do you mean by that? I'll rub out a top to a glass like finsh and it takes a film like varnish at least three weeks to get hard enough for that. Lacquer would be about the same. If you're talking about just steel wool and wax a few days will work but the finish will be relatively soft.

   LeeLee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

1. 
   2002sheds | Feb 26, 2003 06:40pm | #4

   Hi Lee,

   When I sprayed the lacquer the first time, I sprayed 4 fairly heavy coats (it's hard to tell because the stuff dries so quickly)of gloss Deft and let it cure for over 2 1/2 weeks. At that point, I began to rub the finish with steel wool and Wool Lube in order to even out the look- it ranged from semi-gloss to gloss. Additionally, I was trying to even out the feel- it felt "pebbly" before I rubbed off the top layer of nibs. Unfortunately, I cut through the finnish in one area, leading to this series of questions.

   I have continued to spray (aerosol this time) a top coat of satin Deft, using your suggestions abave. It too, dries so quickly that it's hard to tell if I'm getting lacquer on the table or just filling the air with solvent odor. It's getting closer to having an overall consistency, so I hope I'm on the right track.

   When I rub the finish with paste wax and steel wool, will that help the "feel"? I'm worried that If I cut through the finish again (this time with wax)that I'd have to start over. Or can I wipe the affected area with mineral spirits?

   Sorry about the long post. Any help will be appreciated.

   TwoSheds

1. 
   Elcoholic | Feb 27, 2003 12:07am | #5

   2 1/2 weeks should have been plenty.  I wonder if the wool lube softened up the lacquer?  (I had a real bad experience with Briwax on waterborne poly.)  I've never rubbed through lacquer using 4/0 wool dry or with wax.  I ususally shoot gloss lacquer and then rub it out to the sheen I want.  If I'm going for an all-out blinding gloss I'll wet sand (w/ water) from 600 through 1500 or 2000 and then polish it with clear coat safe car polish (Mother's or McGuire's) and finish it off with a high speed wool bonnet and corn starch.

   BTW if your spraying Deft with a gun you're wasting money.  Deft is brushing lacquer and it's expensive.  Try Lilly and good quality thinner.  You'll save $10-15 per gallon.  I shoot lots of (10 - 15) light coats (just wet it) between 3:1 and 2:1.  Use the Home Depot brand thinner to clean the gun.  Lacquer is the most forgiving film finish there is, you'll get.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

2. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Feb 27, 2003 08:35pm | #6

   The Deft should go on wet, it should look wet and be wet. You're putting it on too thinly. It is a brushing lacquer and it levels very well so you can put it on much thicker.

   Yes, using steel wool and wax will smooth the finish a lot. But you need a thicker film on board. Brush it on if you can, it's one way to get a thick enough film to play with when it's time to rub it out.

   You say aerosol...do you mean the spray cans? Can you buy quarts?

   Deft is one of the best tactile finishes. It has a wax that gives it the sweetest and warmest feel of any. If you're tying to achieve a glass like finish, though, you're looking at needing at least ten HEAVY coats, open grained woods without filler will need 25 coats to get glass. If it's not glass you're looking for steel wool and wax after several coats will work fine. Use 0000 steel wool and paste wax as the final treatment.

   LeeLee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

3. 
   2002sheds | Feb 28, 2003 05:49am | #7

   Hi Lee,

   Thanks for the reply! I took a long lunch break, rushed home and sprayed (HVLP) a coat on the table today. I used the Deft brushing lacquer (where I live it's all I can buy) and thinned the lacquer at a rate of about 3 parts lacquer to 1 part lacquer thinner.

   The result was that i was finally able to spray the lacquer on wet, but now I've got some orange peel. Can I spray right over this layer? I'm thinking I need to thin more...

   TwoSheds

4. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Feb 28, 2003 04:49pm | #8

   Three things come to mind as possible causes for the orange peel. I still think you may be applying the finish too thinly. Really and truly, the film when wet should lay on the top as thick as about 4 to 6 sheets of paper. If you're not getting it on this thick orange peel could develop as the lacquer dries too quickly, not having enough time to level.

   You could have solvent that's not mixing well with the lacquer. This is the slimmest possibility.

   Here's the scariest one...contamination. If you have applied wax, silicone or other stuff either on purpose or accidently the film my not lay down well. If it's contamination sanding or stripping is your best choice.

   I guess I'd try one more coat. Lay it on heavily. Thin as little as you have to to get it to come out of the gun. If the gloss is uneven when this coat dries the flatening agents have not enjoyed their trip through the atomization process, you'll have to brush. If you still have orange peel there is probably contamination of some sort.

   Let me know how it turns out.

   LeeLee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

5. 
   2002sheds | Mar 01, 2003 05:29am | #9

   Lee,

   Thanks- I'm going to try it right now. Can I rub out orange peel? How soon after these coats can I rub out?

   Thanks,

   TwoSheds

6. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Mar 02, 2003 06:35pm | #10

   I'd give it three weeks to harden. You can rub out a certain amount of orange peel, it will depend on how deep it is.

   LeeLee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

7. 
   2002sheds | Mar 03, 2003 07:37am | #11

   Lee,

   Thanks again for all of your help. The finish finally went on wet- I think I must have been just spraying most of it into the air before! There is definitely a coating that is at least the thickness of several sheets of paper. Slowing down as I sprayed was tough- I kept thinking of my experiences with spray paint, so I wanted to move too quickly. Because of your advice, though, I finally have three or four heavy coats on the table on top of that dry-sprayed thin layer. The last time I sprayed was Friday night, and the finish still has a fairly distinctive odor, at least up close. There is minor orange peel- the last coats minimized most of it. There are also some tiny nibs on the surface.

   I'll wait as long as I (and the friends I built this for) can hold out before rubbing. It sounds like I may only need #0000 steel wool and paste wax- is that true? I'm aiming for a semi-gloss finish- it's also what I sprayed for the last three coats. How much or how little pressure do I need to use? I have to say I've been here twice before already, so my nerves are a little frayed, but at least thanks to your advice I now have something to actually rub out, instead of the microscopic layer of dry spray that had been on there.

   Thanks again!

   TwoSheds