Unisaw 38-830LA Unifence vs. Biesemeyer
Hi,
I’ve been researching a new table saw for several months. I’m still a couple of months away from having enough saved up for it, but I’ve switched from going for the Shop Fox cabinet saw for $899 to the Delta Unisaw 38-830LA for $1200 (mainly due to the Delta reputation). They have 2 models – one with the unifence and one with the Biesemeyer fence. They are priced about the same. I’ve heard there are pros and cons to each, and both are good, and people generally recommend what they are used to.
Any recommendations? I am not a professional wood worker, but I have 3-4 furniture projects coming up that I would like to get a nice saw for, and also a saw that I can keep for the rest of my life (I’m 33 now).
Just to reassure myself, I am doing the right thing by going with the Unisaw over the Shop Fox saw, right?
Thank you for your time.
–Kent Iler
Replies
Find a used Unisaw with a Unifence. I think it's a wast of money to buy a new saw. Unless you live on a deserted island you should be able to find a used machine. Go to woodweb.com and post a WTB ad.
Dave Koury
Kentiler,
Two comments:
First, if you want a Delta ..get a Delta...the differential in cost at your age is nothing..especially if your less than totally happy with anything else.
Second, I do not have a Bies..I have a knock-off (shop fox classic). It seems to me the Delta fense is great...but everyone copies the Bies...that should tell you something..
good luck
I outfitted some older unisaws with 52" unifences. Two 14" and one 10". The fence rail went on nicely but the "universal" extention table supports and shelf brackets were nothing to brag about. The fence rail ends are sharp, I rounded them off with a file but I would like to see rubber bumpers. The fence works great and is easily adjusted. In fact there may be too many adjustments. If not set up correctly it won't be smooth, accurate and effortless. Like any one rail fence, it has a tendancy to hang up on the miter slots so you get used to holding up on it. I drilled the fence bar and placed some tinnerman nuts inside the channel to make fastening auxillary fences to the aluminum easy. I like being able to slide the fence bar back and forth lengthways. For ripping you can set it european style or pull it back before the blade for crosscut indexing. A short 12" fence is available. The fence can be flipped over giving a choice of a tall or close to the table. The entire fence is released from the saw with a slight twist of the locking handle. When set up correctly it works very well but you can think you are locked down when you are not. There is a mickey mouse plastic tape mark reader that is not easy to adjust and like most metric/standard tapes, they are hard to read. There is no micro-adjust. The fence needs a board fixed to it if you plan to clamp jigs or fixtures to it. Of course after a few months someone wacked the fence with the blade running. Unfortunately the sacrificial fence board was not in place. Getting nicked is one thing that concerns me with the Biesmeyer and clones. If I was buying a new unisaw I would stay with the unifence and get a left tilt arbor for ripping bevels face up. If you don't have a loading dock w/forklift, have it delivered with a liftgate and call some strong friends with a dolley.
Kent,
The Unifence is more versatile; it has a portion of the fence that can be slid back and forth (front to rear).
I used a Unisaw with a Unifence in a college WW class a few years ago, and have had a TS with a Biesemeier for several years. I prefer the Biesemeier. It is rock solid, consistently accurate, and when the mechanism is kept lubed ( dab of white grease once a month) glides like it was on an ice rink. Maybe I should add that the reason the Unifence seemed kind of cranky to adjust may have been that it was a school saw (little maintenence, ham-handed students). GP
Thank you to all the replied! I'll continue watching over the next couple of months until I have enough for the saw!
--Kent
Both are top-notch fences; you might find one or the other more preferable to your syle of work. I have a “bessy versus unifence” article on my web that lists the differnces if you are intersted.
PMB
http://benchmark.20m.com
The Delta reputation has not fared well in recent years, but the Unisaw reputation has remained largely intact and is well-deserved. I'm the same age as you and I bought my Unisaw (right-tilt 52" Unifence) three years ago and haven't looked back since (unless you count those pricy European saws with the sliding tables).
I had to do a little digging in the back catalogs, but I see a 36-830 listed as having a 30" Unifence (36-831 having the 30" Biesmeyer commercial). I am assuming that these are the saws you are debating. If they are available and you can afford it in terms of budget and space, go for the 52" Unifence or 50" Biesmeyer. The extra capacity will really come in handy down the line. If that is not available because it is an older model, than oh well, you can always upgrade later (though it is cheaper and less hassle to go big upfront).
Which brings me to my next point--the catalog I referred to was a 2001 edition. However, the saw may have been manufactured in 2000 or earlier. My saw is a Platinum Edition made in 2000, the version that immediately succeeded the one you are considering. You probably know the vintage already, but it is a factor when buying something that is "new" but might have been sitting on the shelf for 3 or more years (I'm assuming you're going to a store and not private party since you state "they have 2 models.") The saw went for about $1400-$1500 back then if memory serves. And Uniswas hold up their value pretty well.
Kentiler,
I second the advice from DJK! Unless you have more money than time, find yourself a good used Uni-Saw, PM or other solid brand. Get one with no signs of abuse, tune it up and it will last you a lifetime. If you stick with a name brand, you can always upgrade with bigger motor, sliding table etc. if your work takes you that far. In addition, if you shop wisely, you'll always be able to get you money back out of it if you so choose.
Good lack and happy hunting!
Mack
I've been looking for over 4 months, and still haven't found any decent used saws. Mostly they are the older ones (40+ years). Granted, they are probably good saws, I want one that doesn't look like it's been through a war.
I'll keep my eyes open, but I will probably be buying one in the next 2 months, so I don't have much time left.
--Kent
Both the Bies and Unifence are excellent fences and don't think you'd go wrong with either. imho the Bies is more rugged and the Unifence more versatile. Shops I've worked at had the Bies; my old UniContractors saw had the Unifence. My preference is for the Unifence because of it's versatility. Ditto the comments on the 52" vs 30" size. If you have the room and the extra $, I'd think the 52" would be the way to go, especially if you'll be using a lot of sheet goods. A good size outfeed table and a saw height cart will make life easier.
I'd keep looking for a while yet. I spent about 6 months looking before i stumbled across a 7 yr old 3 HP Unisaw with a 50 inch Biesmeyer on it. At $700 it was definately worth the time i spent looking for it. That's around 1/2 price, and it was in perfect condition.
Kentiler,
Those old saws are (IMHO) far superior to what's generally available new in a price range that's feasible for most of us. Quality of product was of a higher priority than cost reduction. The difference between ugly and beautiful is usually just a matter of a couple weekends and a small investment in paint, parts etc. Restoring an old saw will give you an indepth understanding of the workings and adjustments.
I certainly would not trade my 1950 Uni-Saw for any new saw that cost less than $2000.00! I paid $225.00 and have about $785.00 into it with upgrades, parts, bead blasting and machine work.
On the other hand, a brand new, shiny saw is nice, requiring only a checking (hopefully) of the adjustments. Warranty is another issue.
Good luck with whatever you go with!
Mack
My Uni is from the 40's. Looked terrible. All it took was a couple of days, lots of elbow grease and a paint job. I put new bearings in it just in case and added a resetable over load relay. I don't have 300$ in that saw. Took me close to a year to find it.
I've been working the dog snot out of it for over 25 years. Nothing to complain about.
BTW it has it's original 5 lead motor and a Vega fence.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Kentiler, Here is an older saw that needs some tlc. Dale
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2358497987&category=20789
This one seems like the better saw.
Claen it up and if you don't like it put it back on Ebay.
It looks a lot like the one I bought only in better condition.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Kentiler, Here is another one, a bit newer. Dale
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2358108849&category=20789
I like the 2nd saw, but the trouble with either is I'm in Cleveland, and that would be a long haul or a pretty expensive shipping bill.
I don't have any experience reconditioning saws, so I think I would like to get one that doesn't require much work, and I would be willing to put more money into one.
I am a bit concerned by the way people refer to the new Unisaws (or any saw for that matter) as not as high of quality than older ones. If I get a new saw, will I be replacing it in 20 years, or is it the components (motor, etc) that will need work sooner than later?
Thanks.
--Kent
Kent, IMO, If you are using the saw moderately, such as weekends or as a hobbiest, any Unisaw would probably last you a life time. Granted the older saws are a bit heavier and the metal in them is probably better, but to be honest there is not that much maintenance to do on these saws. We live in an age of sealed bearings that require no maintenance and a replacement motor can be purchased for $100.00-200.00 just about anywhere. If you take care of the saw top preventing rust from damaging it and give the saw a good vacuum and cleaning plus a good tune up every now and then, the saw will give you years of service. Whichever saw you decide on, you will enjoy and build many great projects with it. Hope this helps, Dale
What is the type of tune-up that is required? Of course I keep the saw clean, but for the weekend woodworker, what other type of things will I be looking at? I guess the owners manual should include that type of stuff.
Thanks.
--Kent
Kent, The main thing to check is the blade being parallel to the fence and miter slot. If these two are correct, you will have very clean cuts with minimal saw marks. These can be adjusted by loosening the trunion bolts beneath the table and slightly adjusting one way or the other. Most fences have some type of adjustment on them also to align with the blade and miter slot. Another great tune up is changing the pulleys to steel machined pulleys and install a link belt instead of the traditional V drive belt. This small change will greatly decrease vibration on your saw and help in passing the "nickel" test. (Stand a nickel on edge on the saw top and start the saw. If the nickel remains standing, your saw is well balanced). Keeping a good coat of furniture wax on the saw top and buffed well will allow the wood you cut to glide easily across the top. (Some say use car wax but I have heard that the silicone from the wax affects wood finishes so be careful). These are just a few things you can do. Dale
Thanks!
--Kent
Dalewood,
Your advice for aligning the blade to the miter slot and changing out the pullies is only correct for a contractors type of saw. Unisaws are aligned by shifting the table and are already equipped with steel pulleys.
John W.
Thanks John, Thats good info. to know. Dale
I had both, and here are my comments:
1. The Delta Fence is nice 'cause it swivels, but it is hard to attach an auxilary fence, because the back is curved, and won't hold a clamp. I found this unacceptable.
2. The Besi Fence is great, and solid as a rock. It has an auxilary high fence which is nice and is a must. Outfit it with a Benchdog T Track for a great hold down system.
3. The HTC Fence is even better. The face of the fence has a quick disconnect system, so an auxilary high fence can be attached without throwing the measurement tape off kilter.
My first choice would be HTC, followed by the Besi. The Delta Unifence is a poor third.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
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