I have been asked to build an entertainment center for a co-worker. It will consist of 3 base cabinets with 3 upper cabinets with adjustable shelves, about 10′ wide by 9 1/2′ tall and will be painted white. I am considering pricing the work at about $2,750.
What type of plywood should I use for the case work? Birch plywood from Lowe’s, Baltic Birch, Appleply, etc?
If this was for me I would probably use the Birch from Lowe’s, but since I’m exploring the possibility of doing this for pay in the future, what do you guys suggest?
Also, are the Blum hinges sold by Rockler of the quality that should be used for nice cabinets?
I have attached at drawing of my concept. Any suggestions or comments would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
Brad Kimbrell
Replies
I'd use paint grade maple ply for the carcase, Baltic Birch for the back, and soft maple for the face frames, door stiles and rails.
Both take a good paint finish, and are of better quality than consumer birch ply.
Ask your nearest wood supplier, not HD or Lowes, if they can get "Pro-Core" ply. It has a layer of MDF beneath the veneer, and has absolutely no voids.
Hope you have a shaper or a big router for the curved rails on the doors.
Just remember, the first paying project will be a b***h. Good luck.
The Blum hinges are fine.
I've always used plywood for cabinets but the plywood you get at the big box stores is pretty lousy and the market seems to have moved to MDF. See the recent article in FWW.
I've never built anything for pay.
I built a similar size entertainment center recently and found that even though it was painted I underestimated the time required to do a good finish. One third of my time went into finishing and installation. I primed, filled nail holes, sanded, painted 1st coat, touch-up sanded and applied 2nd coat of paint. Installation took me the better part of a day, I'm slow. I would use poplar for all of the plywood edging and any solid wood parts. Poplar is inexpensive, stable and gives a good paint finish. Is the unit free standing or built between walls ? How are you going to build your doors ? Do you have a stile and rail router bit set ? Also, if you are using Blum concealed hinges you will need special bits and jigs to install. Good luck.
Robert
Boy, do I understand about how long painting takes! The client is going to do the painting after I complete the install. He will be the extra pair of hands to install this monsters.
I built a run of about 50 sets of 6 shaker boxes several years ago (until I got sick of doing the same thing over and over and over...). The milk painted sets took ALL profit out of my $300 per set price.
The stained and/or lacquered versions were MUCH faster. I learned very quickly to hate painting!
Thanks for the advice - it's well taken.
Brad K.
A couple of other thoughts, If your client is going to use this for TV / A/V components you should design a wire trough to conceal the wires between shelves. I made a 2" x 2" vertical "box" in the corners, to fish all of the wires through. It makes for a nice clean finished product. Also, depending on what they will put on the shelves you may want to think of making the center shelves added thickness to span the 48" dimension to avoid too much deflection. One design comment, I would add a smaller crown moulding beneath the top on the lower cabinets.
Robert
Robert,
Great point and thanks!
Can you give me a little more detail on how the 2x2 box is opened to fish the wires through?
Brad K.
The 2" x 2" box was actually an L shaped piece of 1/2" plywood that was removable and attached in the corner to cover any wires and cables. There is an issue of Fine Woodworking a couple of years back with an article on entertainment centers, you may get some other ideas.
Robert
Find a source for Blum "Inserta" hinges and clips. No screws are used in fastening the cup hinge part to the door, nor the clip base to the cabs.
If you look at full specs for the Blum line, you will see that "Inserta" is one of the options for any of the hinges.
Machining for Insertas is just as routine as for any other Blum hinge, except that where smaller screw holes go, or 5mm holes for system screws, you'll bore 8mm holes for the studs.
Revise your design however necessary to have the lower cabs part with doors all frameless, with full overlay doors. You can build the boxes more simply with 3/4 birch ply all around and tape the front edges. That way you eliminate face frames.
Figure out your entire flatgoods cut scheme, trying it on the 60 x 60 baltic birch size, and also the 48 x 96 US standard. Buy whichever, baltic birch in the metric, or maple veneer ply in the US standard, makes most sense from a cutting economy scheme.
StakeHorse ,
The $2750.00 price is not far off at all of what the job should go for , with no finish. Painting a job of that nature can be quite a job , unless you are a pro painter. Usually paint finish on that job could be anywhere from $1000.00 to $1,500.00 , depending on the exact paint. Know this it costs more to paint a cabinet then it does to stain and lacquer it . Make some calls in your area to finishers and get an estimate before you commit to the price . I agree maple plywood for the case work soft Maple or Poplar will work fine . If your door panels are recessed flat panels 1/4" mdf is the greatest. Your countertop in the picture appears to be the full 10' long one piece , what do you have in mind there ? Also agree with other post that the counter top edge needs to be built up or apply a molded edge to it.
good luck dusty
GREAT thread, learned a lot.
I have to second (or third?) the comment about paint taking longer than conventional wood finish. I am doing a large run of chests and painting them has all but removed any chance at profit...
Michael ,
I saw your rifle boxes that you posted a picture of on your thread about whether or not to paint the inside of the boxes. It may be easier to paint the whole box as opposed to masking or otherwise not getting any paint on the insides . What did you learn on that matter ? Sometimes we clear coat the insides of jobs that get painted on the outsides . Your gun stock work and such is truly a specialty craft and you are very gifted and lucky to have found an area to excel in . Maybe you could use indoor outdoor carpeting or the likes on the interior of those boxes ?
see you around the sawdust pile
dusty
Dusty,
My plan was to put the seam on the top between two of the base cabinets to hide most of it under the upper cabinet seams. I have wrestled between using biscuits, a spline, and/or those kitchen counter connectors that require drilling two round holes with a dado between the holes where the tightening screw belongs.
I plan to run a 1 1/2" flat banding around the top edges. A crown would probably be nice to dress up the transition.
Any thoughts on how to build the 10' top and how to handle the seam would be appreciated.
Brad K.
Hi StakeHorse ,
Ironically I am working on a unit similar right now . the one I am building is wall to wall just over 16' wide and only a total of about 90" tall . One way of handling this application is to stagger the depths of the base where the center on mine is 24" deep and about 8' wide and each end is 22" deep and just over 4' wide.The hutch tops on the unit I am making also stagger in depth , and so does the solid wood countertop. The countertop is in 3 sections and splined together where they meet with the transition pieces running front to back . There are so many different ways to execute this piece of furniture , IMO that is the fun and beauty of our craft. You just need to use the approach that best suits your limitations and equipment and skill level. Just for fun I made a materials list to build your job , with 1/4" backs and all 3/4" Maple ply and Soft Maple or Poplar which cost close to the same here in the Pacific N.W. I used $3.00 a bf as a base and $ 40.00 a sheet for the Maple $ 50.00 should cover the hinges and I came up with about $800 - $900 in materials cost. So do the math I bid per lineal foot not by the square foot , but whatever works for an individual is the way you should do it .
good luck dusty
Dusty,
I get about 11 sheets of 3/4" and 5 sheets of 1/2" sheet material. I did a cut list (rough) and would probably add a sheet of each for mistakes (never made one yet but I'm sure one might crop up! LOL!).
I get about the same pricing for materials that you did and then added about $100 for lights and $100 for hinges.
The crown that I am looking at has a dental pattern on the bottom with a fancy crown at the top and is about $60 / 8' section. I'll need 2 if I don't screw up! That's $160 - $240 additional.
So, with materials topping out at about $1,500 I felt that $3,250 will cover my materials and I'll probably make about $20 per hour with my slow pace. Since this is my first large cabinet I'll consider this a learning experience.
This customer will get me more business from his friends at the golf club. We've agreed that any future projects like this one would be priced at about $4,500 to others.
I'm going to Mark Adams School this weekend to take a course on "How to Build a Successful Woodworking Business". I took their Maloof Style table class at the end of August and I truly enjoyed myself. It was a one week class and we learned hand-cut dovetails, veneering / parquetry and built a Maloof-Style side table also.
Thanks for your confirmation on my cut list. I've attached the drawing I made to "drop the parts" onto sheets of plywood to calculate the totals.
Brad K.
Brad
It's probably a bit late, but may I offer comment on the proposed design as shown in your initial post? I find the use of constant width doors off-putting. I think it would be better if the doors were sized so that there were two on each of the modules. Of course this means that the doors on the centre section are wider than those on the two outer units, with consequent complications in terms of extra jigs, etc. However, I think the finished look will be superior.
As to construction and costs. You mentioned that you would be drilling for shelf pins. Will you be installing sleeves in these holes or leaving them bare? If left bare you could expect them to partially fill with paint, and if sleeved have you included the cost of the sleeves? I don't know how much of a tool junky you are, but a project this size with the prospect of additional units may justify the purchase of something like the Festool router, guide rail and shelf drilling system. Take a look at http://www.festool-usa.com for routers, guide rails with holes and guide rail accessories. It may be worth starting a thread and asking for comment in respect to drilling shelf support holes with a drill vs a router with a spiral bit. For a lot of holes, in ply or MDF I would be seriously look at using a solid carbide drill bit.
Ian
Ian,
I sure would prefer the doors to be 2 / cabinet, but a 24" door seems too long - it would require too much clearance to open. Just my opinion and I'm sure open for suggestions.
Yes, I did plan to put the sleeves in the holes. I had looked at a shelf pin drilling jig at Rockler and the sleeves are reasonable - 16 for about $2.50. The router drilling sounds much more interesting and would probably produce holes with less tear-out.
Has anyone else had experience with router shelf pin drilling systems as Ian mentioned?
And, hey, isn't it all about collecting extra tools for every new project! LOL!
Brad K.
... but a 24" door seems too long - it would require too much clearance to open ...
Brad
Allowing 24in for door swing may not be too big an ask. I find I need more than 24in to get down and fiddle with something only a few inches off the floor.
Also there has been some discussion re using glass panels so that the remotes will still work. Another option is to mount an external external remote sensor in one of the styles. That way you could still have solid doors.
Ian
I did something like this for my first paid job and for a friend - I won't bother comparing prices (I'm in the UK) although it seems that friends and colleagues always think that they can strike a deal for some reason but will still expect the best job you can do.
The two things I learned really quickly are:
1. Allow yourself at least 3 times longer for installation than you think
You say that you have allowed one day for installation but I bet that by the time you get on site, clear the inevitable furniture out of the way and get the stuff off the van (tools included) and approximately into place you will be already approaching lunchtime (particularly if you are working alone). Then you've got wiring to think about, leveling of floor/ basebox, aligning three units, scribing to the wall, touching up with paint (possibly two coats in places with drying times) etc, etc.
I would allow at least two and probably three days for this - if you finish early then you look good - plus people don't want you in their house after they come home from work so you may find your day shorter than you had planned for!
2. Painting is a massively time consuming job!
Customers always think that this should be cheaper than you suggest because it is 'something they can do!'. If you've ever spoken to anyone who has gone for the unpainted option to save money and decided to do it themselves you can guarantee that given the choice again they would pay any money to have it painted esp if its MDF (and radiator cover grills!). You need to be well rewarded for this bit because if you aren't then there will be a temptation to rush it and the end finish may suffer as a result. This is obviously what makes the impression at the end of the job - plus the fact that your client can use the furniture straight away. If the paint finish is not top notch then no one will give a stuff about the clever wiring channel, they'll just think about the way it looks.
I'm sorry if I'm banging on but I'm excited for you for your first job and I also wish someone had taken the time to tell me all of this.
You will enjoy doing it but you will probably only break even at best on your current pricing. One other thing - keep a time sheet and put everything on it - tot it up at the end, work out your hourly rate, pin it to your workshop wall and laugh at it everytime you look at it in the future!
Hope it goes really well for you and please post the pics of the finished job!
Good luck
Tim
Edited 10/3/2004 9:34 am ET by Tim
Sorry, missed some threads and didn't read that the client wil be painting it himself! One word of caution on this - if you want to use this job as a portfolio inclusion make sure he does a great job!!
Just one other thing. I use a really helpful program for calculating sheet usage called Cutlist Plus - it really comes into its own if you think you might make design changes - I'm sure a lot of you have already heard of it but I haven't seen it mentioned. It does a bunch of other stuff like solid stock and hardware calcs but I really only use it for the sheet work. Link here: http://www.cutlistplus.com/
Hope it helps. Great thread by the way!
T
Edited 10/3/2004 9:44 am ET by Tim
I take lots of digital pictures of my projects beginning with the pile of lumber and including interesting steps along the way. The pictures serve as a record of how I did something and some of the customers enjoy seeing their project "grow". My last picture(s) show the project as I left it. - lol
Tim,
I went to Marc Adams School of Woodworking yesterday for a one-day seminar on "Building a Successful Woodworking Business" with Lon Schleining. You are exactly correct about the pricing and the amount of work!
I was shocked to learn that even with a meager $700 / month shop rental rate that my hourly COST (not price) with only myself as an employee truly runs about $75 / hour based on a 40 hour work week.
I was fortunate to be able to show my plans to some professional cabinetmakers and they expressed the same issues you had with painting or letting the customer do the finish work. One of the pros their told me to stay away from paint and use a white lacquer spray finish. He showed me his portfolio and the difference in the sheen and beauty of the sprayed lacquer.
They also pointed out several issues with my design and I have changed it quite a bit to allow for doing almost all of the construction in the shop and much less work on site.
I'm sure that I'll learn much more during the process. Thank you so much for your constructive advice! You guys are truly a great resource for me.
Brad K.
Glad you found it helpful - I haven't been going that long myself but the learning curve is steep. Definitely invest in a spray system if you can. I have the Fuji HVLP Q3 which is great and makes everything look really pro compared with brush or roller. Take care with lacquer finishes until you have had chance to practice with them - they are pretty unforgiving and IMHO can make some units look a bit mass produced. I use really good quality paints and then use a compatible clear laquer over the top which allows me to use any colour theh client wants and isn't a total b*****d to fix if you need to touch up. The waterbased top coats can dry in less than 30mins so you can easily use them on site.
I was thinking about your timing suggestions right at the beginning and it made me laugh to think back to a job I thought would take a day and a half - again for friends - ended up staying all week!!
Take care
T
This thread has kept me here for quite some time....
I've been messing about in woodworking for about 18 years now, and I'm a pretty good beginner. Just wish there had been such a forum back then, since I've been burnt from time to time.
Now, if the prospective client balks at a price (and I'm only doing this part time, but I'll be darned if I'll work for next to nothing or be taken advantage of) I just say "no....sorry". Sometimes they don't really know what they want, but if they in fact want something cheap and easy, I send to the nearest furniture store. (Ikea comes to mind)
Quite often, I simply quote a shop rate per hour plus materials. INCLUDING time spent to gather the materials. Then I know I'm not being ripped off, and the customer gets a detailed (somewhat) list of hours etc.
Anyway, many thanks to those of you with all the experience who are also willing to spend the time (and have the keyboarding skills) to share some knowledge.
Bob.
Don't commit to a price until you have decided on the specific materials and actually totaled up all of the material costs.
Avoid guessing at the amount of plywood you will need, lay out the cuts, you will probably need a few more sheets than you think. Include all of the hardware, hinges, knobs, drawer tracks, shelf hardware, knock down hardware, interior lights, etc., it can really add up, a few hundred dollars easily, not including the paint and primer costs.
This is a big piece, it will have to be built in sections, knocked down, delivered, and reassembled. Painting, at least the final coat, should be done after the piece is installed if at all possible.
Once it is reassembled, the piece will need to be shimmed to get it level and parallel to the wall. After shimming, a trim molding will have to be installed to hide the gap with the floor. If they want a built in look, with the cabinet tight to the wall, then the room's baseboard will have to be removed and the other fitting work will be even more time consuming. Don't underestimate the time it will take to deliver and install the unit, it could be a quarter or more of the labor.
Don't forget to check for wall outlet and cable locations and vents before the piece is designed so that everything will be accessible when the unit is in place. Electronics generate a lot of heat you will need to allow for ventilation.
John W.
John,
I have made a cut list for the sheet goods and am in the process of totaling up how much poplar will be required for the trim and raised panel doors. Your point on the misc. items is well taken - lights can run from $15 each to over $100 for the 3 when you add the switches, transformer, etc.
I have seen some articles on shimming kitchen cabinets but don't have experience in doing so. Your point on the floor molding and removing the base molding were overlooked - thanks for the head's up!
If I understand, I will have to shim the base to level the cabinet with the floor and then install trim to hide any problems with the wall being out of plumb. Then also add some quarter-round or something to hide the shims on the floor?
What shim material do you suggest using? Surely not those shims that you use to plumb a door? Should I cut some hardwood shims and take those with me? Do I need to check the level of the floor and plumb of the walls before I complete the cabinet?
Thanks to you and everyone else that has offered help. As with most projects, I'm sure there will be a few surprises when I get into this thing, but you guys and gals have really saved me a lot of time and pain already!
Brad K.
Hi,
My first impression is that the price is quite low even for unpainted.
Have you broken out what materials will be yet?
How about labor help for moving and installation and whatever else?
Have you figured an hourly rate for yourself?
If you have and then try to project what time a task takes, try to avoid
cheating it ( yourself ) down by saying, " I can do it faster than that."
It is a common hole to fall in.
Now that I have said you are pricing the job low I have one more caveat to add. This is your first paying job so you shouldn't charge what a seasoned pro charges. This will be a learning curve and you are getting paid to learn, that is
a good situation. If you and the client make out well by the end of the job that's great!
One last thing is don't rush yourself on the time frame either, and don't let the client rush you. You want the installation to go quickly but make sure you have enough time in the shop to completely prepare ahead of time. Everything takes much longer on site.
Good luck and I hope you'll include some photos of work during the installation and completed shots.
Tom
I think the price is on the low end.
Unlike others advice, I would use 3/4" MDO; the stuff is pre-primed plywood ready for a finish coat. Priming,sanding,and painting again something this size will take considerable time if you do it conventionally. With MDO, you could paint the finish coat(spray preferably) on the full sheets, then cut and assemble, touching up later at installation.
Jackplane,
The client is doing the painting - he says he enjoys it! I sure don't!
With that said, I am intrigued by your MDO suggestion. I have a piece of 3/4" MDO in the shop that I bought to make a few jigs. It seems to have a paper coating that would probably take a great paint finish. Is sanding something like this a problem? It would seem that you could very easily sand right through the paper?
Thank for your comments. I'll post some pics after I'm done to show all of you how it turns out.
Brad K.
MDO off the shelf is ready to paint, no sanding needed, that's why I suggested it for this paint-grade work.
I don't understand Dave Heinlein's opposition to using it. The core is plywood,not top grade ply, but plenty strong nonetheless.
You're selling the finished product, not the interior of the material.
The core veneers look to be Fir, and the general purpose for it is exterior signage.
I may be wrong, but to me it looks like an ok grade of ext. ply, which will most likely want to warp indoors. If it warps a little outside, who would ever know it?
I would never use any plywood, except marine plywood, for exterior signage unless braced by a frame and not unless the edges are absolutly watertight.
I use MDO from time to time,never had a problem.If it's stored flat it stays flat.
All the best,
jp
JACKPLANE ,
M.D.O. ( medium density overlay ) commonly called sign board , an industry standard for as long as it has been available . This material is totally impervious to the elements and lasts many many years when used for bill boards and signs in a vertical manner as are signs . Call any sign shop and ask for your self , it is the material of choice , at least here on the West coast . Yes you certainly can and perhaps have built case work out of it , trust me that is not it's intended purpose .When I read your original post here and you mentioned it , I thought you really meant MDF the finely ground wood flour compressed under different degrees of density to create an absolutely flat and smooth and very paintable surface.I would guess Marine plywood probably isn't as smooth of a surface as MDO in many cases and for sure the cost factor is much much higher . Please enlighten us if you feel this information is less than accurate .
see you around the sawdust pile dusty
dusty,
I think you're right on this. I had assumed MDO (medium density overlay) was not meant for exterior signage, but I guess it is. I've used it for paint-grade casework because its already primed and saves a lot of hassle. But if it's got exterior rated glue like you say, I'll abide by that.
I'd say it's very underpriced, probably by about 6000 --7000 US dollars. On the other hand you might be an amatuer doing this just for fun or for a learning experience.
Materials, outsourcing the doors and drawers, hardware, etc., will more than likely cost you near enough US$1,500- 2000. The rest is all your profit-- perhaps 80 hrs of construction time, delivery, materials purchasing, etc., if you hurry up and skimp a bit. Slainte.
I would't touch his for less than $3000-$4000 unfinished. You will have a day in just picking up the materials, and a day in installation. Plus, 2-3 days on finish. So, at $300 a day (10 hours @ $30 per hour)
Has any warned you against working for "Friends and Family" yet. This goes for co-workers too.
Bum hinges are my favorite, but, IMHO, the inserta hinges will be a problem and time consuming. The 8mm holes(not 3/8" or 5/16") are required to be in precise location, where as a regular cup hinge can have the screw predrilled with a vix bit to prevent splitting. Plus the regular hinges are easier to find and cheaper in cost
Hinges/plates alone will run you $100+ from a store such as Rockler and the 35mm hinge bit(carbide) can't be less than $35
The client changed the design today to include a 4" break-front for the center shelf unit and base cabinet and we settled on $3,250 unfinished with him helping with the unloading and carrying into his home.
This break will require more joints for the crown and banding and a little more wood so we moved from $2,750 to $3,250.
You are correct on the pricing of the hinges. Another post mentioned a link to a better price on the Blum hinges and I will check that out.
I also planned on using shelf pins and will purchase the shelf-pin drilling jig and the pin sockets for that. He wanted to use shelf standards but I think that would look bad so I talked him out of those. They would be easier to install but I'm afriad that I wouldn't be proud of the look.
Thanks for your comments! Any other suggestions would be welcome.
I'll add my two cents.
First, I would never consider this job at your price. The unit is 95sf of finished visible surface(at least). At $2750.00, that's $29.00sf.
I do this for a living, and if I charge less than $100sf, I can start losing money pretty quick. Naturally, my overhead and investment is likely much more than yours. Please charge more money, do like John says,count your materials, including the small stuff. Don't cut yourself short on labor,either. You'll thank me later.
Second,I see no real advantage of using Baltic Birch ply, except for drawers. It costs more, and other than drawers, it has no real advantage.
I would also rule out MDO as a cabinet material. The core of the ply is nothing more than a plugged&sanded CDX, which has never made a fine cabinet, as far as I have ever seen.
I like your $/sq ft rule. I assume that you apply this to the labour charges and then cost the material separately? are there any others you find useful?
The only similar rule I have heard was 5* material costs, but that really didnt provide a buyer with lots of perceived flexibility about which timber to use, or I risked getting caught if they asked for something cute.
I have found that I can do about a joint per hour (amateur with hand tools) if I have planned the job thoroughly, and there are no curves (I recall a thread earlier by someone who said any more than one curve and they were losing money)
Now the question. How do you use the rule? As a preliminary guestimate or as an order of magnitude 'common sense' check on you detailed quotes. I'm pretty lucky in that all mistakes have cost me so far are a few extra days in the shed I could other wise have spent doing something else (except for a birthday for my father).
That's not a hard&fast rule, But over the years it has become apparent to me that this is the level at which I could lose ground if I let things get out of hand. Some jobs cost much more than 100sf, some cost a bit less, but the $100sf is my bottom line. When I get asked the question "Can you give me a ballpark figure?", This is the number I use. It helps to weed out the tire kickers, and those who really can't afford custom work.
If you are painting this, go to a good plywood dealer and get rotary veneer sheets. No flitches means no filling gaps between flitches.
Cutting large pieces of plywood with the accuracy needed for architectural work is not a one-man contractor grade table saw job. Be sure you have the equipment and the extra hands for cutting big sheets of plywood.
Your price, as others have said, is very low. Since you are doing this for a coworker, ask yourself how much of a friend that person is, and how much of a friend you want them to be when you are done. Clients who don't like the finish, little nits or big nits are common, and disagreements could sour a friendship.
If you like woodworking and feel confident about doing a good job, go for it. But be sure you at least get your costs back, inlcuding finish costs.
Paul
I'm going to vote with the folks saying you're underpriced. A couple of months ago, I did a paint grade entertainment center about half this size and with much less detail for $2500. Those arched doors are going to take some time and you'll probably make a couple of extras before you're done. Where will the electronic boxes go? I usually make a section ~20" wide for those. If they go behind a door, you should consider a tempered safety glass panel.
I'm working with a customer right now on a 12' wide x 9-1/2' high home office setup with bookcases, a built-in desk, a 'tower' for electronics, and several file drawers. We're still in the rough design stage and the price is in the neighborhood of $8000 - $9000.
You should plan this project to death. Make cutting plans for every piece of wood so you can price the wood. Get prices for all necessary hardware. Add in some money for 'consumables' (sandpaper, fillers, nails, screws, brads, etc). Figure out how long it will take to build it then add at least 25%. Once you have all that added up, throw in at least 2-3 days for delivery and installation.
Dave,
I will have some room on the top but then they would be encased by the crown moulding. I believe that your suggestion of putting the transformer in the center base cabinet is best. What is the purpose of the tempered glass you suggested? Also, could you expound on the ~ 20" section for the transformer?
Where do you suggest mounting the switch for the lights? I plan to use the round lights in the top of the cabinet, but this will only light the top section. Since the other shelves are adjustable I don't think I can put any lights in those, but I might could hide some tubes behind the moulding on the front of the cabinets. Of course, these would interfere with the shelves unless I put a cutout on the shelves too.
Thanks and I would appreciate any ideas you have to share on the lighting.
Brad K.
A glass panel will allow the remote controls to operate with the door(s) closed. Since the doors are in the bottom of the unit, tempered safety glass is a must from a safety perspective - particularly if there are small children in the house. It adds to the cost, but it's worth it as far as I'm concerned since it virtually eliminates any liability on my part as the designer/builder.
I use 20" for the electronics bay(s) since 18"-19" seems to be a 'standard' width for cable boxes, satellite boxes, DVD's, VCR's...........etc. I like to use adjustable shelves in the bays for flexibility and I make the shelves 2"-3" shorter than the cabinet depth so cables, cords, etc have a place to hang out of sight.
I also like to use surge protector power strips inside the cabinet so I only have one (or two) cords plugged into the wall.
Early this year, I built a wall to wall, floor to ceiling bookcase system for a customer that had halogen 'rope lighting' in the upper and lower units. I was able to convert an existing light switch to two switched receptacles for the rope light plugs, and cut an opening in the cabinet back for access to the switches.
Ain't design fun? - lol
Sounds $ about right on the dot. Another guy on another forum talked about the $12,000.00 project he just did no bigger than what Stakehorse is about to make. Yet everyone on that forum thought he was ripping the buyer off. I didn't think it was, as I thought if it was costom made to fit your needs or your place it has to be in the high price than what u could get at HD or the likes.
Your points are well taken. I have a Delta Unisaw with the 52" Bisemeyer fence and a fold-out outfeed table behind it. I usually cut the big sheets to a rough size and then fine-tune the smaller pieces. This may prove problematic with some waste but I don't have a panel saw.
I also reduced the 48" center unit to 46" to allow for bad or dinged edges on the sheet goods. This should save some wood and allow a couple of inches for the rough cutting.
I have not decided on a banding method yet. I have seen the iron-on veneer tape but I may go ahead and band the front edges with poplar for durability. Any ideas on this would be appreciated.
I did look at the commercial banding machines ($10,000 and up!) but I don't get it. Why are they so expensive? Obviously I'll stick to either hardwood or iron-on or glue-on veneer.
Brad K.
Brad--
As others have said, you're thinking too low on price--I would about double it at least.
Secondly--Blum hinges are nice, and there's nothing wrong with the ones that Rckler sells, except that they are too expensive. My advice to you would be to go to cabinetparts.com. I order all of my hinges etc... through them, and their prices are approaching half that of Rockler, even including shipping.
Be aware that you do have to know what you are ordering, and the hinges are sold in two pieces--hinge and baseplate--but there are good guides and diagrams for what you need.
Have you tried to talk your co worker into a nice cherry ent cent, rather than painted? It's such a pretty gesign and all...
Good luck
Peter
jpswoodworking.com
Peter,
Thanks for the source for the hinges / lighting! Cabinetparts.com's prices are much better than Rockler.
All of the high-end homes in the "Parade of Homes" had white painted entertainment centers in the homes. I would NEVER paint nice wood cabinets myself, but hey, he's the customer. I love the natural grain and look of nice wood.
A question on the hinges: If I am buliding the base cabinets with full overlay doors, do I need to use the "twin door" type hinges for the cabinets that mate next to each other? In other words, there are 3 base cabinets. Where two of the cabinets meet, there will be 1 1/2" of wood where the cabinets connect. It seems that I need one style of hinges for the two far outside doors and another style for all of the other doors. Hope I'm being clear enough.
Thanks in advance!
Brad K.
Brad--
Actually, I think that all of the hinges would be the same. From the looks of your plan, (I'm assuming a euro style and not a faceframe) each door will have its own 3/4" piece of plywood to be mounted to. If this is the case, then full overlay hinges should work for every door. The only time that you would need to use different is if two doors shared a vertical 3/4"--then you should use 1/2 overlay.
Of note--When you order, all of the hinges are the same, reguardless of overlay. The baseplate is what determines the overlay. If you want to be on the safe side, you could order a couple extra baseplates for a 1/2 overlay since they are so inexpensive.
I hope that I answered your question.
Taking a look at the schematics of the hinges might clear up any further ?'s
Peter
I will add a few comments I have recently heard from those in the buisiness. I build furniture, but not wall units/EC types of things. One fellow who is very good, and busy, said he ballparks this type of work at $1000 per running foot for good quality, and $1500 per running foot for highly detailed work. Another fellow, from Indiana, mentioned that he prices such work at $200 per square foot of finished front. So, a piece 6ft high and 6 ft. wide would be 36 sq. feet, @200, = $7200. Both bid estimates assumed the builder would do the finishing, and would deliver, but not install. Both methods of pricing include materials, but if the materials were exceptionally expoensive, the price would be adjusted. Your materials are below standard price, a bit.
From these formulas, looks like you are about 1/2 the market, and still too low on your "full priced" version.
A recent comission I completed ended up being almost a gift. I liked the piece, and underpriced it to try to crack a particular market segment, which has not yet happened. We'll see if bread upon the waters was a good strategy.
Best of luck.Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
In case you still deciding. First of all according to your drawing is a nice piece of furniture, but the only problem is that you are going to spend some money on materials. Lowe's don't know their prices. but in Home Depot for sheet goods will go for 45.00 for Oak Ply. SandedPly will go for 32.00. Looks like you will need ply and hardwood as well for the face frame and the decorative curvatures. Hardwood doors,etc... But you will not be making a profit at that price. Painting the furniture go with sanded plywood.
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