Upgrade an old jointer or buy a new one
beechlandfurniture
| Posted in General Discussion on
So my shop will be down for a couple months while I build a new one and I thought it might be a good time to upgrade my Powermatic P60 8″ jointer with a byrd cutter head and a 3hp motor. Looking around I’m probably $1,000 to $1250 in materials. I’ve never done this before but from what I have seen it seems pretty simple.
At the same rate Grizzly has a 8″ jointer with 3hp delivered for around $2500.
So all in all I wouldn’t be out that much for a new jointer but it would save me some time refurbishing the old one. I don’t think it’s in the cards to upgrade to a 12″ and I don’t think I could justify the cost bases on the number of times I would need to joint over 8″ wide.
Which route would you go?
Replies
In your position, I'd think about spending a little more and getting a combo 12" jointer/planer.
I recently replaced the cutterhead in my delta 37-315 with a new spiral unit. Works beautifully and I love the old jointer. However, it took some doing...fat fisted and cracked a cast pillow block getting a bearing out, had to get a new one machined. Still ahead financially but a headache and lots of downtime. Perhaps a consideration if you're running a production shop.
Kind regards and enjoy the new workshop!
Mike
I'm pretty experienced in rehabbing ancient/old machines, so take my opinion with a bit of salt.
If your current jointer works well, I'd keep it. There is no telling the accuracy of a new machine, tho it "should" be good. I'd put in the new cutter head, and know you have a good machine.
What size is your current motor? Does it bog down when you are face jointing? If not, I question the need for such a large motor. I have a 24" wide jointer, and have an old, heavy duty 3 hp 3 phase motor on it, which is all I've needed, and I do some wide (up to 24") face jointing on it. One thing to keep in mind is that motor quality and hp ratings have changed over time, with the quality going down and the hp rating going up. So your old motor may be about as good as a new, higher rated one.
I put a new spiral cutter head in an 8inch jointer and kept the same 2Hp motor. It works great and the motor does a great job. I would replace the cutter head first, keep the same motor which is probably good quality and see how it does. If the motor really bogs down then replace it after you know for sure.
The current motor on the jointer is a 1HP Baldor motor, and it does bog down when face jointing 8" boards. What I assumed with the spiral cutter head would need more hp when running larger boards.
+1 for the 12"combo machine... even 16" if you can swing it. The ability to joint to the full width of your planer is a true game changer. The thoughts of "glue up then true up" vanish.
The only reason you don't think about jointing over 8" wide is because it is not an option for you. Once it is, you will think about it often. I have a 12" helical J/P combo and I'll never go back.
That’s an interesting take. The only time I really see the glue up a true up would be cutting boards.
For panel glue ups I could maybe see drawer fronts but I’m normally not going to a jointer to flatten again after I glue up to face joint.
For everything else I build glue ups tend to be over 12”.
Is there a preference over the jointer planer combo over just a single machine? I’ve got a freestanding 12” planer if that helps.
I have a 16" combo machine (Hammer A3 441) and it's awesome.
There is a world of difference jointing on a 16" compared with an 8" machine. The ability to skew a board to take down a corner, or to reduce tearout is really nice to have. It's footprint is remarkably tight too, taking up not much more useful width than my old 8" combo machine, though it can't be up against a wall as the fence mount and guard sticks out.
It takes less than a minute to change from jointer to planer and with the digital readout, thicknessing is repeatably accurate to within 0.1mm.
I can't say if you are better off upgrading, but were it me, I would sell the old machine and put it towards a 12" Hammer. I have had mine about 18 months or so and seldom thickness over 12" - where I do, it is because I can, and have selected to cut lumber to 16". I could as easily have cut to 12" and would not be the worse for it. When I had an 8" machine I just made smaller wood choices. Also no cutting boards so win win there!
The better cut from the spiral cutterhead is not really worth the difference. I got really good cuts off my 2 blade machine - way noisier of course, and a little more tearout, but some form of smoothing is still required as you get tiny divots instead of waves if you look close enough. It's still taking a curved scoop and you can see them if you are fussy, even with the massive cutterblock making them really shallow. At most I save a few moments planing or sanding. Where it is valuable is the total lack of screwing around. My machine has seen fairly heavy use for a hobbyist and it's still on its first cutter face all across. It'll be about 10 years before I need new cutters at this rate, and no need to reset the tables after blade changes either.
Went from a 6" grizz & 12.5" Delta lunchbox to a 3hp, 12" helical combo. Would have gone to the 16" but space is REALLY tìght.
Being able to make a 3-board table instead of 4 boards is sweet. I can resaw 12 inches, joint the face and go again. Wider and thicker boards add to my options, and the parts all match for color. I wish the beds were longer, but that's my only downside.
I have owned an 8" Jet helical head jointer for about 8 years. It's not a Byrd head but the results are amazing, figured wood or not. It has a 2 HP rather than a 3HP motor but I've face jointed 8" boards and there is no power issue. This jointer is also selling for $2,500 at retailers who sell Jet. I had an issue with the cooling fan on the motor coming loose from the shaft, but Jet actually sent a rep from a local company out to do the repair onsite. This may not be their policy anymore, given all the changes tool companies have gone through but they were responsive to my calls.
I personally would never take apart a machine like a jointer, but I'm not a mechanic nor do I like to spend my woodworking shop time on maintnenace and repairs of equipment anymore than I have to. A 12" jointer would be great but my experience has been that, since owning the 8" jointer, I've only wanted to face joint a wider than 8" board once and I found a way to run that through my planer with good results.
The Byrd head is great (I have recently purchased the Oliver benchtop planer with a true Byrd head.) but the head on the Jet does an excellent job.
If an 8" jointer is suitable for you and your present PM jointer is in good working order - new Grizzley for about $2500 and a new Powermatic will cost about a grand more. I think you should expect a downgrade in quality moving to the Grizzley , especially if your Powermatic is an older model. I'd do the upgrade on the machine you have.