Replies

1. 
   RLMillard | Jun 25, 2002 07:20pm | #1

   I apply the dye from the bottom up. This way any drips or runs, fall where there is already dye. Or work with your surface horizontal. Of course spraying the dye helps, but this is kind of messy, not to mention expensive. Another way to work through this is to apply diluted dye for the first coat and a stronger dye for the next or subsequent coats. Dyes do not seal the surface, so you can in theory apply as many coats as you’d like. The same concentration of dye will do little or nothing to alter the color. Don’t give up on dyes, because when you learn to use them, they will set an okay finish apart from a truly great one. Nothing colors wood like dye, except time.

1. 
   dlaporte | Jun 25, 2002 09:58pm | #2

   Thanks for the advice. Like everything else in woodworking, you only get better by doing. I was disappointed with my results but it was my first time. Several people have told me to stick with dyes and I'd be sold so I'll give it another shot.

2. 
   Paul_Snyder | Jun 25, 2002 10:56pm | #3

   Mardon; What color do you want the table to be once you are done?

   If you're going for a dark color, I'd like to recommend a different approach than dye alone.

   To apply dye, use a rag or sponge and get the piece evenly wet as fast as you can. Every spot where the dye sits a little longer than the surrounding area will be darker as the dye soaks in longer.

   Using dyes is worth the learning curve.

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

1. 
   dlaporte | Jun 26, 2002 12:16am | #4

   Paul,

   The mistakes you point out in your email are exactly the ones I made.

   I was trying to give a maple end table a colonial or early american coloring. The dye I used was "brown mahogany". What is the ideal you had about looking for a dark color?

   Don

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Jun 26, 2002 02:48am | #5

   Mardon; The finish you want is easy to describe. Just click on this link - http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/eamaple.htm

   Whenever you want to color maple a really dark color, it's easier to use a light to medium shade of dye to highlight the grain, apply a very thin coat of oil to bring the color and grain to "life", then follow with a wiping stain (ther are some very good brands of stain that work extremely well on maple - Triclad from woodfinishingsupplies.com for example). If needed, you can follow this with a coat of sealer then a glaze. For even more color, follow all of this with a toner (colored clear coat).

   If you try to dye maple a dark color with dye, you will get bad blotching unless you spray the dye on very lightly so that it dries before it has a chance to soak in.

   As always, do some samples before the final project. I like to make my samples as large as I possibly can - the results are more accurate. Little sample always seem to look good, but the full size project sometimes comes out not so good.Paul

   F'burg, VA

1. 
   dlaporte | Jun 29, 2002 02:35am | #6

   Paul, thanks alot for the advice. I hadn't heard some of the tips that you pointed out before. I did at least two of the potential mistakes that you point out i.e. dye being too dark and becoming blotchy and not using a large enough sample. I also appreciate the link you gave me. Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I'm looking forward to try it again with my new found knowledge.

   Don

2. 
   dperfe | Jun 29, 2002 05:13pm | #7

   "If you try to dye maple a dark color with dye, you will get bad blotching unless you spray the dye on very lightly so that it dries before it has a chance to soak in. "

   Do results differ between hard and soft maple?  I built a desk out of soft maple, dyed it Dark Mission Brown and it came real nice.  My technique was different however, I saturated the wood.  I didn't have problems with splotches or streaks.  Once the wood is saturated it can take no more color.  This solved the problem of streaks.  To get the level of darkness I wanted, I simply diluted the solution and practiced on sample pieces, till I got what I liked.

   -David P. 

   Edited 6/29/2002 10:19:30 AM ET by dperfe

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Jun 29, 2002 08:48pm | #8

   David P.;

   I haven't worked with soft maple so I can't answer from experience. The furniture I finish is made from a variety of woods, including hard maple. Some wood is easy to dye - you can flood it on fast and blot up the wet spots. After it dries, the color is all even. from your experience, it sounds like soft maple is one of these woods.

   If you have a photo of your desk, I'd really like to see it along with a description of your finishing steps.Paul

   F'burg, VA

2. 
   dperfe | Jul 08, 2002 09:51pm | #9

   Paul,

   Sorry, I don't have any pictures.  Though I havn't experimented heavily with this, It seems that the degree of sanding may have something to do with the amount of splotching in hard maple.  With sample pieces I've used in the past, I sanded to 150 then dyed.  A few days ago, I was playing with another couple of samples that were sanded to 220, the splotching was much more noticeable I thought.  But as I said, I havn't fully checked this out.  It may be with the samples, or the fact that I'm looking for it more.  I think the soft maple takes the dye with less splotching in general.   

   -David P.

3. 
   Paul_Snyder | Jul 09, 2002 12:05am | #10

   The finishing suppliers I've talked to recommend sanding to 220 to reduce blotching/splotching, but for me it's too time consuming without enough pay-off (still blotches). By spraying the dye on in light coats, you can build the color with zero blotching. It's quick and easy.Paul

   F'burg, VA

4. 
   dperfe | Jul 09, 2002 01:44am | #11

   Paul, This may be a silly question, but given that it's a water or alcohol based dye, is it doable to load up a household spray bottle and turn the nob to a fine mist when spraying?  Or do you need one of those expensive sprayers?

5. 
   Paul_Snyder | Jul 09, 2002 03:20am | #12

   I laughed at first but it just might be possible. It'd be tough going on an armoire but could work on something small. If you can get an even pattern it's worth trying.

   Another option is one of those compressed air in a can sprayers from the hardware or paint store. You load your own material in the jar, attach the can of compressed air and spray away. Doesn't go far, but will work on little jobs.

   For bigger jobs, a good garden sprayer might work. One of those sprayers with the tank, hose and nozzle, that you pump up with the "bicyle pump" style handle. If you can get a good pattern out of it it might work.

   An air brush is another option.

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

6. 
   DonStephan | Jul 09, 2002 03:27am | #13

   You will probably find that the spray bottles and garden sprayer, while seemingly creating a fine mist, still produce discrete drops when an object is sprayed. For a good looking application of dye, an extremely fine droplet is needed, and this will require a decent (but not necessarily expensive) spray gun.

7. 
   Paul_Snyder | Jul 09, 2002 04:08am | #14

   Dye can be applied with a rag with excellent results; so what difference would the droplet size make when sprayed? Correct answer = NONE.

   If you get "stray" droplets and your "spray gun" runs empty and you can't wet the entire area, then you could get spots. But those spots can be easily blended.

   If you "mist" the surface so that it all gets evenly "wet" at essentially the same time, it won't make a bit of difference what size the droplet or what kind of "spray gun." The key will be getting a decent, repeatable pattern so that you can get the wood evenly wet with the spray so that there are no lap marks or spots that get too wet. On a small item, a spray bottle could easily perform this task.

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

8. 
   DonStephan | Jul 09, 2002 04:22am | #15

   You are more than welcome to give it a try. When I have wiped a dye with a rag, either for application or following spraying, blotching becomes a very real possibility, almost a probable. My Asturo spray gun came with I think a 1.5 needle/nozzle. When I sprayed a very light coating of a concentrated dye, the individual droplets would sometimes dry before running together. Since I switched to a 1.1 needle/nozzle set that problem has disappeared. Any of the sprayers mentioned earlier will give a much much larger droplet than the 1.5 needle/nozzle did. Making the surface "uniformly wet" will yield a thicker layer of solution as the droplet size increases.

   Certainly if the surface of the wood is flooded then larger droplets may not be a problem; however, drying time will be dramatically increased, the solution will be spread about the surrounding area, and control over the amount of color added to the wood will be dramatically decreased.

   Edited 7/8/2002 9:25:23 PM ET by Don Stephan

9. 
   gerry001 | Jul 09, 2002 07:39pm | #16

   Wouldn't this depend on what you need to do? I've done large projects using a sponge with good results, sometimes flooding and othertimes a thinner coat. Worked fast and great, and I wouldn't consider another method! So I agree with Paul.

   OTOH, if the wood and color are going to produce alot of blotching, or if I need to blend heart/sapwood together, or make a glueup top look like a single piece, then I really need the type of control and have to watch the precise issues that were mentioned, so I agree with Don. (Gotta try that 1.1; thanks.)

   Gerry

10. 
    dlaporte | Jul 23, 2002 01:54pm | #17

    After thinking that I ruined my maple table because the dye was too dark and some of the run off left streaks, I was told about bleaching, I used household Clorox bleach used in clothes laundering. I "painted" it on with a sponge brush. I couldn't believe it but the dye pretty much disappeared right before my eyes. I was then able to reapply a lighter shade, was more careful in the application. I then stained the table with a gel stain to the desired shade. I was thrilled with the results.