Someone posted (sorry I forgot who)
“There is really no good substitute for a scrub plane. The progression that will make you the happiest is scrub first, jack second, jointer last (light cut). Depending on the length and width of the board, you might be able to skip the jointer. “
I only use a big, long, old (really old) wooden jointer? (I could be wrong) to flatten a board if I need to. I don’t use it that often but when I do it does a great job. I don’t use a plane for flattening enough to know the difference. Mostly just use a small bench and bull-nose when needed.
A quality Scrub (never have used one), Jack, and Jointer are going to cost more than some cabinet saws.. Is it really worth it? Not objecting to anything here. But for a clod like me…. I just wonder why three are needed?
I’m not sure I am typing what I mean. Just don’t want to tick anybody off. You folks with your planes get real excited!
Just a general question and I was wondering…
Edited 1/18/2005 7:49 am ET by Will George
Replies
I posted the language you referred to.
I mill all my stock by hand and everything I buy is in the rough. In theory, you could take lumber from the rough and process it to a usable state with a block plane. I mill with an L-N scrubber (40 1/2) that cost about $150, my jack and jointer are both Record and they do a great job. I also mentioned in that same post that a lot of woodworking was done before L-N came onto the scene. Clearly, I've paid less that the cost of a cabinet saw for these three planes. They do a great job.
I also posted in that same thread that I doubt Thomas Lie-Nielsen himself would have you throw your hands up at hand tool milling just because you could not affort to buy a substantial part of his line. You can do very well with used Stanley and Record. I posted a link in that thread to a reliable supplier with the best prices I've ever seen on used Stanley. Beats the hell out of EBay on a regular basis.
Considering the physical effort, ergonomics, etc. there is no way that I would mill lumber day in and day out exclusively with a No. 7. No way. The scrubber is small, narrow, and light and gets me to flat very quickly. You could skip the jack and go straight to a jointer but I've worked my routine out and I'm comfortable that it will work for anybody who tries it. Yes, it's a *traditional* progression I suppose; no apologies for that believe me.
If you only occasionally mill stock by hand then you can certainly do so with only a No. 7. In fact, I routinely advise those who are buying their first plane to get a No. 7 as it can do practically everything.
If you make the leap to milling all your rough stock by hand then the questions you've raised will pretty much answer themselves. A scrub plane is vital in this scenario.
If you're willing to shop in the used market, you can get a scrubber, jack, and jointer for around $300. If you insist on L-N you're looking at around $800 I suppose. I believe jack and jointer are around $300 - $350 each and the scrubber is $140 or so.
Anthony Guidice did a nice article on milling stock by hand. You can buy the article for $3.50 in the online archives. I strongly suggest you spend this small amount of money and read what he has to say. Be warned, however, that he is even more strident than me about the need for a scrub plane.
Edited 1/18/2005 9:35 am ET by cstan
Thank you for the response.
I really was just asking in general why you use three planes when I get away with only one. Not that I know anything about what I am doing with a plane. All the planes I have are old used stanleys and that big old wood thing I love not sure. That blade is thick but sure holds a edge well...
Will,
I think there is another aspect to why three planes than one plane that is implied in cstan's comments but, perhaps, needs to be more explicit....that being the set of the mouth on the plane. Yes, you could take your wooden joiner and send feather cuts flying until the board was flat but that could take quite a while...you might be able to adjust the mouth on a #5 to a more aggressive or feather cut...but you know what a pain that is... So, from an efficiency perspective, three works best
efficiency! Hay! I never thought of that.. Like in production...
I guess I have to much time on my hands.. To cold to work in the shop today..
Will,
Yes, it is too cold in the shop here too...of course, frozen wood planes faster...lol
Will
Since its too cold in the shop, why not go to the Lie-Neilsen site and order the DVD/VHS "Rough to Ready" by Bob Cosman.
Bob uses a scrub, #8 jointer and 4 1/2 smooth to get his boards flat._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
I have ordered the book and a scrubber... .. You know you have just caused me to buy something I don't need don't you? Geeeee.
Whatcha mean you don't need it?
You don't need a car, but you have one.
You don't need a bed to sleep in, but you have one.
yadda yadda
You'll get over it._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
If you go for a "good" plane, don't buy one till you check out Veritas (Lee Valley). Most reviews I have seen that include these planes, give them the "Best Buy" nod.
As a happy owner of several, I think they are superb. If I wanted a beautiful plane to put on a display shelf and save for future investment return, it would probably be the L-N.
Here is a link: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1&p=41182
Brian
Edited 1/20/2005 1:01 am ET by x372sailor
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