I have an old wine barrel that we keep outside on our patio. I have some left-over teak tongue and groove flooring boards that I want to use to create a circular cover for this wine barrel so that it is protected from rain. Anyway, I am ripping both the tongues and the grooves from these boards and these boards are pre-finished. I think what I want to do is either sand off the finish after gluing and cutting out the circle or use a stripper to remove the finish. I then want to finish the top with something that is water-resistant. My questions are: will a random orbital sander easily sand off the existing finish? Or should I use a stripper? One other question is, what is the best solution to finish this with since it will be out in the rain and needs to be water resistant. Any help would be appreciated…
Regards,
Buzzsaw
“Don’t ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” Gil Bailie
Edited 1/15/2006 3:56 pm ET by Buzzsaw
Replies
Buzzsaw,
For such a small job I would try to avoid using a chemical stripper if possible and, in any case, you might find that the factory applied finish is resistant to ordinary stripping chemicals.
My first choice for jobs like this is to use a cabinet scraper with a heavy burr on it. A cabinet scraper is faster and less dusty than sanding and won't gum up like sandpaper. A scraper also leaves the wood ready to finish, with no cross grain scratches or raised grain. Wear eye protection, a brittle finish can fire off tiny chips at high speed when it is scraped.
If you are going to try sanding, use a coarse paper to start, and try to find a paper that is treated to resist clogging. The new "3X" long life papers, that have recently appeared in stores would be excellent for this application, and they are being made for random orbit sanders.
Don't be tempted to run the boards through a jointer or planer, the finish will trash the edge of high speed steel knives on the first pass. A hand held power planer, if it has disposable carbide knives, which many do, would be an effective way to do the job if you want to make the investment.
The best finish for the top, if you want a film finish, would be marine deck varnish. More commonly available spar varnish is a bit soft, by intention, and might be damaged by flower pots and the like set on the top, or will stick to clothing if someone sits on it.
The easiest finish would be an easily renewed oil finish meant for decks and outdoor furniture. Teak is highly weather resistant and doesn't need a lot of protection, or any protection at all, if you don't mind that it will weather gray over time.
John White
Edited 1/16/2006 9:08 pm ET by JohnWW
John,
Thanks for all of the information. Will the finish have a bad effect on my table saw blade as it will on jointer or planer knives? Now I am a bit concerned.
One other question, I have recently noticed after ripping these T&G boards that if I put both ripped edges (of two boards) up against each other (as I would glue them) it appears there is a space left between each board but the ends of the board are flush. So more material is being cut in the middle of the ripping action. I measured and the width of the cuts on each end (perpendicular to the length of the board) are 3 1/8" and in the middle the boards are 3 1/16". Would this be caused by my fence? I do have an old craftsman and the fence was built up with wood by my Dad years ago. I was really thinking of getting an after-market fence and now I am thinking more seriously of doing it. I went back to some other boards that I had ripped (not floor boards) and they look exactly the same. I was thinking of purchasing a MuleCab after-market fence. Any opinions?Regards,
Buzzsaw
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Buzzsaw,
If you are using a carbide tipped saw blade you won't have trouble sawing through the finish on the T&G boards.
The problem you are having with the edges coming out with a slight curve could easily be caused by a bad fence on your saw. Tuning up the saw and straightening out the face of the fence, if it is curved, would solve the problem without the expense and trouble of installing a new fence.
I restore old machinery and, in my opinion, a fair number of the older Craftsman saws aren't worth the expense and trouble of upgrading. You'll end up with a good fence on a mediocre saw. Also, most of the aftermarket fences are designed for mounting on medium to large saws and have fit problems when you try to mount them on smaller saws which includes most of the older Craftsman saws.
For not a lot more money than just buying a new fence, you could get a new saw. If you want a more specific opinion on this, send me the saw's model number, it should read something like 103.12345.
John White
Edited 1/18/2006 1:19 pm ET by JohnWW
Edited 1/19/2006 9:42 am ET by JohnWW
My model number is: 113.29992.Regards,
Buzzsaw
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Buzzsaw,
I actually owned that model saw once and it rates as one my least favorite saws. I've passed up a few of them at tag sales in the past few years, something I rarely do with old machinery. My recollection is that the fence on this model was terrible, always going out of line. The rest of the saw is lightweight and of fair quality, certainly not a classic.
Being that a new fence will cost around $200.00, I'd recommend taking the money you would have spent on the fence and putting it towards a new saw. There are good saws available for under $500.00 that I think you would find a pleasure to work with after working with the saw you now have.
John W.
John,
Thanks for the advice but I broke down and bought a Vega fence yesterday and will be installing it this weekend. My table saw was my Dad's so it has a lot of sentimental value. I am going to use this for a while and will probably upgrade sometime in the future. A new saw is not in the budget and I may just hunt down a newer Craftsman someday and put this fence on it. By the way, it was the fence causing my problem but I'll know for sure when I cut something with this new fence. I brought my fence into my instructor, Alan Mitchell at Homestead Woodworking School in NewMarket, NH. and he assured me that the wood that my Dad had attached to the fence was bowed and was causing the same thing in the wood I was ripping. I could've just taken off the wood but I always had to measure from the front of the blade and the back of the blade anyway and I was sick of doing that. I'll let ya know how my ripping now comes out with the new fence.. thanks for your time and advice...Regards,
Buzzsaw
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
John,
Can you recommend a certain brand of cabinet scraper. I'm still at this tabletop that I made from left-over tongue and groove boards and there is still, in some areas, a film of left-over finish. My belt sander and ROS are having a tough time getting them out. I also would like to learn more about cabinet scrapers and this may be the perfect project to use one one. I've read that the #80 is one of the only cabinet scrapers left that is made. Any help would be appreciated.Regards,
Buzzsaw
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Buzzsaw,
For what you are doing I would suggest that you first purchase a basic card scraper, just a simple rectangle of steel that you use by turning up a burr on its edges. Anything you can do with a cabinet scraper like the Stanley #80, you can do just as well wth a simple card scraper, and you'll have a much better feel for how scrapers work than if you start out using a scraper mounted in a holder.
You can purchase both card scrapers and scraper holders like the Stanley #80 from two sources I would recommend:, Lie Nielsen Toolworks, and Lee Valley Tools Ltd.
John
John,
I picked up a fairly reasonable card scraper last night at Rockler. It is a Sandvik scraper and it cost me $7.00. I tried using it on the tabletop but it pretty much just slides across the table and doesn't bring up much shavings at all. Not sure if this is because of what is left of the finish from the pre-finished T&G board or whether this card scraper needs to be sharpened. Granted, this is the first time using this scraper and on the container it specifically shows only to pull the scraper toward you, not away from you. So, the next question is, do you think this needs to be sharpened and what is the best method of doing so? I should probably post a picture of the tabletop thus far. You may be able to see what is left of the finish. There isn't a whole lot left and I may just continue using the belt sander and ROS to get the rest off. I was just hoping that the card scraper would work to get the last bit of film of finish off. By the way, I did purchase the 3X hook and loop sanding pads for my ROS (100 grit) and was thinking of trying those as well.
There is one thing I have learned about using pre-finished boards. It would've made sense to turn the boards on their edges and taken the finish off with my table saw before I ever glued them. Someone suggested that on Knots and, in hindsight, he was probably right..Regards,
Buzzsaw
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Buzzsaw,
The actual cutting edge on a card scraper is a small turned up burr created on the card's edge with a burnisher. The Sandvik wouldn't come with the burr on it and without the burr the tool won't cut.
I'm sure that somewhere in the Fine Woodworking archives that are on this site, there are a few articles on preparing the edge of a scraper. I haven't worked with the archives myself, but if you have trouble locating the information let me know and I'll track them down for you. I'm suggesting finding an article because, in this case, photo's are very useful to learning how to sharpen and use a scraper.
John
Thanks. That makes perfect sense but I wish the Rockler folks would've told me that ahead of time when I bought it. At the same time I could've bought the tool for creating the burr. One more thing, I was thinking of purchasing a Stanley #80 cabinet scraper. Would this come previously sharpened? Thanks so much for your help.Regards,
Buzzsaw
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Buzzsaw,
The Stanley, and any other brand of scraper holder, will probably come with the working edge of the blade beveled to the proper 45 degrees that's used with blades in scraper holders, but you will still have to raise the burr yourself. For what you are doing, removing finish, you will probably find that using the scraper freehand is more efficient than using it in a holder.
Before buying the Stanley #80, take a look at Lee Valley's updated version of the #80, their number 05P32.05. It has a number of improvements over the original #80 and is reasonably priced at under $50.00.
The shank of a screwdriver, unless it is especially soft steel, will work quite well as a burnishing tool. My personal favorite is a small triangular file with the teeth ground off and then buffed up to a mirror finish with emery paper. The slightly rounded edges of the file allow you to raise a nice bevel without applying nearly as much pressure as is needed with a larger diameter tool.
Stripping finish will dull the burr quickly, but you don't have to file the card's edges square again to resharpen. Just use the burnisher on the flat sides of the blade, while the blade is on the benchtop, to flatten out the bevel, then go back and remake the bevel by burnishing the scraper's edge in the conventional manner. The reformed bevel will be larger than the first and, while a bit rough, it is very effective for removing finishes. You can probably flatten and then reburnish the edges a couple of times before needing to file the edges square again.
John
John,
Yes I was looking at the Veritas cabinet scraper and will probably go with that should I decide to go that route. I am going to try to raise the burr on my existing card scraper that I bought yesterday and give that a shot first. There is an especially good video in the Network location on this website that shows exactly how to prepare and raise a burr on a card scraper. Also, Tage Frid recommends using the back of a chisel as a burnishing tool. Thanks again for the information and I am still going to try to post a picture of the table top, maybe before and after using the properly honed card scraper. Regards,
Buzzsaw
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
John,
I am trying to attach files(pictures of the tabletop) but cannot and I did shut off my pop-up blocker. Any suggestions?
Regards,
Buzzsaw
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Apparently this is a problem with systems using Windows XP. Our software provider has created a fix to get around the problem: when you go to attach something, hold down the control key and then hit the key to make the attachment.
If this doesn't work, get in touch with Matt Berger who is also in the experts section, he's the in house expert on our website technical problems.
John
Hi John,
I have WIndows 2000 Professional and hitting the CTRL key did not help me. I will post to Matt Berger and hopefully I'll be able to post a picture.
Regards,
Buzzsaw
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
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