Hi,
I just finished staining a small end table (pine) with MiniWax oil stain. Would rubbing on a tiny amount of furniture paste wax with a cloth help protect the wood as well?(give it a nice sheen).
wanda
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Replies
Wanda,
You can use paste wax but it will not afford much protections against dampness and scratching that is likely to occur on an end table. I would suggest that you use a polyurethane top cost to provide both a sheen and protection.
It will afford no protection. A wet glass will make an immediate ring.
Hi,
Thanks for the tip. I guess I better apply a coat of Poly asap. I thought the oil stain offered enough protection. I didn't want to darken the colour of the wood too much that's why I didn't bother topcoating with polyurethane. Poly creates a slightly yellowing/darkening effect.
Do natural bristle china brushes work better than sponges when applying polyurethane?
oh yes 1 more ?.. Can you spray on miniwax oil stains? I read somewhere that darker stains go on more evenly if sprayed on rather than wiped on.
wanda
Wanda, if it come to a brush, I'm lost so others will have to help you with this question.
Regarding spraying stains, yes, it works well. With oil-based stains the extent of the color is usually controlled by the amount of time/material you allow to penetrate before wiping off the excess. Getting a consistent color is more of a function of how fast the stain sets so if the brand or type of stain sets quickly, such as alcohol and some water-based stains, spraying will produce a more even application. The best way is to always try on a test piece sufficiently large to see if lap marks or splotching are going to be a problem.
Edited 5/22/2006 3:43 pm by DougF
Hi,
I'm using MiniWax Jacobean stain. I'll have to take a look a the ingredients in that product. I apply it with a cloth over small sections and then wipe the excess off with a clean rag. I do this fairly quickly trying not to allow the stain to penetrate too much.
The major problem with this brand..... No matter carefully I apply the stain the end grain always obsorbs way too much of the stain. I've even tried using Miniwax Wood conditioner. That product is useless! It didn't help much. What can I do about staining end grain. especially when using dark stains. Even with the lighter stains like Colonial pine.. the end grains look a lot darker in colour than the top of the table.
Only solution I can think of is spraying it on... Is there any particular spray gun that works better than other brands?
Wanda
Wanda, it is not the brand of stain. Most end grains will always stain darker since the elongated cellulose cells have been cut at the end and they soak up and hold the stain. Think of the end grain as a test tubes lying on their side full of stain. The best solution is to seal the end grain first with a 1 or 2 pound cut of shellac, let it dry, lightly sand and then apply your stain.
Hi Doug,
excuse my ignorance when it comes to shellac. What exactly do you mean by 1 or 2lb of shellac?????
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
The "cut" for shellac refers to ratio of alcohol to shellac flakes. A 1 lb cut is very thin compared to a 3 lb cut. For a sealer coat, a 1 or 2 lb cut is preferred. Try this web site for a better description of how the measure is used:http://carverscompanion.com/Ezine/Vol4Issue6/VHamburger/VHamburger.html
Shellac is wonderful finishing material but it is probably not your first choice for a top coat on a piece that is apt to have wet glasses sitting on the surface. There are few products that can provide the range and depth as that provided by shellac. Shellac is available in a wide hue/tone spectrum to compliment any bare wood or wood finish. You can also add tints to shellac.
Doug
Wanda200:
DougF is right on. All major furniture manufacturers have a "glaze" booth or two. Another key to good staining will be your ability to "blend" as you "bust the glaze".
The best eyes are always at the end of the "glaze line".
Neil http://www.furnitology.com
Let me suggest that you use a traditional resin varnish rather than polyurethane. In particular, Pratt and Lambert 38 is made with a soya resin that makes it relatively light in color. The protective capablility of a traditional resin varnish is practically the same as poly, except for resistance of abrasion due to foot traffic.
Wanda, there is no reason to opt for poly. Why not go to Sherwin Williams or another "real" paint store and but a can of "varnish" that is NOT poly. You can dilute it 50/50 with mineral spirits (after a very thorough stirring) and wipe on coats of this. Let the coat dry until just almost not tacky and wipe on another. Do 6-9 coats and you will have a very durable finish.Gretchen
Hi Gretchen,
Only problem I can see with wiping on varnish is getting the varnish into the corners. do you have any tips?
Wanda
Dab it in with a foam brush and wipe it out using a rag wrapped around a chopstick. There is NOTHING easier than applying a wipe on finish. There are no runs or drips or brush marks or dust nibs to deal with because it dries so quickly. You can put 2-3 coats of finish on per day. You need to apply about 8.Gretchen
Hi Gretchen,
what is the difference between turpentine and mineral spirits(paint thinner)? Would It make any difference if I added 50% turpentine to 50% non-poly varnish when making up my own wipe on varnish?
Wanda
Turpentine is a distillate of pine resin, that acts much like mineral spirits. Some painters prefer the feel of paint or varnish thinned with turpentine compared to mineral spirits. For practical purposes I doubt the end product would be much different thinned with either solvent, especially when mixed with polyurethane resin varnish which brings sufficient handicaps that any subtle positive effects of pure gum turpentine aren't likely to matter. If you are making violin varnish from natural resins the differences might be more signficant.
Turpentine will put a stink in the air, to be sure, it's my wife's least favorite smell to emanate from the shop.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
I like the smell of turpentine. But I haven't used any in years.
I completely bow to Steve's explanation. When I was first refinishing, turp was common. Now you would need to "search" a bit. It is just a diluent/solvent.Gretchen
Turpentine is made from pine trees. Mineral spirits is a distillate of crude oil.
To amplify a little on Steve's explanation, unlike other solvents, turp has properties that cause the resins in the turp to bond with the resins in the varnish. Other solvents like mineral spirits naptha and lacquer temporarily thin the finish material and then simply flash off. Some finishers believe the resulting finish is more durable.
Hi,
I'm really getting an education on finishing here at the forum! Thanks for all the info.
For now I will do as suggested and mix up 50% varnish with 50% mineral spirits for a finish I can simply wipe on. I'll give that a try. I'm sure it will be much easier than what I've been doing in the past. I don't like the amber colour of Polyurethane. Also have to be careful for dust nibs and "sags" when applying poly. Not to mention air bubbles, but that's probably because I've applied it using a sponge and not a proper varnish brush.
Wanda
Stain isn't made for protection, only for affecting the color and a tiny bit of any finish won't do much good, either. I have used sponge applicators with good results and you just need to slow down and use long, continuous strokes. Go to a good paint store and look at their finish samples to see which have/haven't yellowed. Also, don't be afraid to ask lots of questions.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Hi,
Thanks For the tips. I'm going to to give that resin varathane (clear varathane) a try. I'll try it on on some scrap wood first.
Wanda
Tom Wisshack did the de facto standard article on wax-only finishes in an old issue of Woodwork magazine.
It is not appropriate for the kid's room, but can be quite stunning if done well on other pieces.
It absolutely IS stunning and beautiful for vertical surface furniture that will never have a wet glass on it. I LOVE the look.Gretchen
Somebody who has time needs to run a search on your posting name and the string 'wet glass.'
It's getting almost eerie.
Ah, Charles, welcome back with your pithy remarks. I have never found the search function on these forums at all responsive so my hat is off to you for being so creative AND technically adept. I guess it is because the questions keep getting asked.
Gretchen
Edited 5/24/2006 7:32 am ET by Gretchen
Gretchen,
And the "wet glass test" is the one that customers always like to use, soon after the delivery of the table. Unless they opt for the "overfilled vase test". Once, I had someone ask me about an old table that had failed the "rotten pumpkin test"-that was a stain hard to remove.
Regards,
Ray Pine
Ooooh, rotten pumpkin. It is amazing what we may ask of our furniture. Thanks.Gretchen
Gretchen,
The rotten pumkin started out as the centerpiece of a harvest-themed table decoration, with warty looking gourds, Indian corn, etc. As the owner said to me, "I guess I should have put a piece of plastic under it."
Ray
Oh, I could see that scenario exactly!! 'o)Gretchen
Pardon me for sounding like a boor . . .
Why on earth should anyone be so careless or inconsiderate as to put a wet glass on a table. Must we live in a world with polyurethane on the furniture because people can't use a coaster or doiley? Heck, why not spread a tarp over everything so people can put their muddy boots on the Chippendale tea table and spit tobacco juice on the French Empire bombee dresser? Is this fine woodworking or picnic tables for bolshevicks?
I think we should all save old planer blades and throw them at guests who put Coke cans on the French polish. I am sure Emily Post would!!
Sorry . . . I had a snit.
FB
Edited 5/25/2006 10:15 pm ET by Biscardi
Amen Brother!! Stupidity should be expensive !!
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
Boy do I agree with that. After spending hours and hours in the shop making nice things it really isn't too much to ask for a small amount of respect.
Perhaps every table should be delivered with a set of complementary coasters.
Great post.
Picnic tables for Bolsheviks. I'll have to remember that one.
Edited 5/26/2006 7:42 am ET by charlesstanford
There was this Russian painter, Nikolai Fechin who lived the last half of his life in Taos, NM building furniture out of pine and finishing it with wax. Here is a picture of some of his work.
A Hand Rubbed Oil Finish by Tom Wisshack. Re-print available on this website as a PDF.
Read it. Look at the pictures.
Tom also did a great article on wax-only finishes in Woodwork.
As a Bolshevik, I feel that I must take exception to your attach. It's the Cossacks who need watching.HA!
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I think a fine wax finish on top does give a little more protection against water- gives you time to wipe it.
What brush to use with Varnish???? The 3" Professional Series Varnish Brush is Tipped and flagged, which helps when trying to get a nice smooth finish. It is kinda expensive , but with care can last a good many years. Amazon has it at this Link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FPAOIS/qid=1148355913/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-4344129-2712650?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=hi&v=glance&n=228013
Enjoy
Rich
Would rubbing on a tiny amount of furniture paste wax with a cloth help protect the wood as well?(give it a nice sheen).
Yep but full's of Silocones? Not something you want to clean up after!
Another finish I like is tung oil, beeswax and turpentine. A recipe for tung oil, spar varnish and turpentine is in a old FFW article by Garrett Hack. The melted beeswax in the former can be substituted for the spar varnish in the latter. The proportions aren't extremely critical. Changing them (ie the wax) makes for a thinner or thicker concoction. I also like the smell of turpentine, but for those who don't, there is the odorless version. Bill Lindau
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