Replies

1. 
   questtools | Jun 29, 2006 05:35pm | #1

    

   Perfect timing of your post Stoneaxe, I am just beginning to play with Deltacad and Sketchup to see if they can help me move away from pencil, graphpaper and a drafting table! Most customers need a visual reference prior to deciding to move ahead with a project. My wife is the engineer - I have no natural ability at sketching, but certain projects tax even my wife's ability to put the project into perspective.

   Your drawings are exceptional, especially the cross section of the building!  

   Which version of Sketchup are you using and how long has it taken you to cross over from using Autocad? Do you feel that your previous training on Autocad assisted in learning Sketup or did some old habits learned since 1986 hinder the leaning curve?

   Have you attempted to add any measurements to your woodworking drawings in Sketchup to use them as completed shop drawings used for building your projects.

   Thanks and looking forward to your reply.

1. 
   treefarmer | Jun 29, 2006 07:30pm | #3

   Hello Questtools,

   I have to admit that I sometimes miss the drafting board. There is something lost when doing work on the computer. That said I could never go back. I don't miss erasing mistakes or changes in design. What used to take weeks now takes hours.

   I would have to say that my overall software knowledge (I use a number of different graphics programs as well) was helpful when starting with sketchup. I hadn't done much 3D work prior to using it though. It was always too cumbersome in Autocad. The biggest help in using sketchup is their online tutorials. I just played with the software and watched the videos and have become pretty proficient. I did have the advantage that I was getting paid to learn it on a project and I have spent many hours working with it. The cross section of the building is the 3rd major model I've produced and is part of a very large project. There is about 200 hours into it the whole model. It was done primarily for conceptual design and to get our ideas across to our client. It is done to exacting standards though and much of it will be exported to Autocad as the base to produce construction drawings.

   I'm using Sketchup 5 or what they refer to as the pro version now. Google bought Sketchup 2 months ago and is now offering a free version. It has some limitations but I think it should be good enough for most folks. I'm not positine though since I'm haven't tried it.

   I haven't produced completed shop drawing in sketchup. Basic horizontal and vertical dimensioning are fine but it doesn't do angles. It's a significant shortcoming but the benefits of it's use far outway it. You can usually work around it as well. I'm fortunate that I can export my 3D models to Autocad for further dimensioning if necessary but I know thats not an option for most.

   I've found Sketchup to be very versatile. The community of users is great as well. Lots of help available and the libraries of components that are available is a great time saver. Need to put a Porsche Boxster in that new garage you are designing? There is a very nice one already done. Landscaping components, mechanical design, furniture, a complete woodworking shop, and much more is available for free downloading.

   Hope this helps.

2. 
   Rich14 | Jun 29, 2006 05:52pm | #2

   Stoneaxe,

   I bought sketchup about 6 months ago for a house remodeling project. It paid for itself in that use. Now I get to use it for designing the furniture I make. It is a program that is limited only by the skill that the artist wants to develop. It can be used at the most basic level or to create incredibly detailed views with the ability to actually view the finished piece in the environment it's going to be used.

   There is a fairly steep learning curve until even the most basic functions become comfortable, but after that, the sky's the limit!

   It's a bit expensive, though, for the casual user. If I hadn't been able to justify its cost in the remodeling project, I don't think I would have considered it at all for wood woork

   Riching design. Boy am I glad I was able to get it!

3. 
   forestgirl | Jun 29, 2006 07:40pm | #4

   I'm totally impressed with what you've done with SketchUP.  Just this week, I got my nose to the grindstone about this CAD stuff (having no experience to rely on) and have been extremely frustrated.  Downloaded SU, but didn't get the hang of it for even a basic 3D drawing.  I think it's because I don't understand how to work with the various planes.

   If someone reading this wants a more CAD-like program, but has the same mental constraints I do, LOL, take a look at the free Alibre Express.  They provide really good tutorials, especially the QuickStart Tutorial  I went through this before I downloaded the program, and actually felt hope that I could learn it!

   So, any chance if I go back to SketchUp I could get some help that might get me over the hump that seems to block my progress??

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   

1. 
   treefarmer | Jun 29, 2006 10:11pm | #5

   Understanding the planes in 3d is critical to the process. Sketchup handles it easier than most I believe though. The nice thing is that Sketchup has so few controls and easy acces to almost all of them.

   The best thing I can suggest is to just play with the program and view the online tutorials.

   http://www.sketchup.com/?sid=35

   http://www.sketchup.com/?sid=56

   I'll be happy to answer any questions that I can as well. One of the great things about Sketchup is the community. I've had many of my own questions answered on the forums. You can download and print the quick-reference card and access the forums here.

   http://www.sketchup.com/?section=support

   The one thing I always do when starting a project in Sketchup is to draw a large flat plane. This becomes the extrusion surface that everything else is based on. Try drawing some simple dimensional lumber to start with. The good thing about doing that is that you are creating a library of wood sizes for later use. A simple exercise would be to draw a bunch of lumber and then dimension it to check your sizes. If you then create a component out of each piece you have taken the basic steps to using Sketchup. Sketchup already has a download for Construction components, including wood framing so you can download that and then try to emulate it. http://www.sketchup.com/?sid=38

   It is difficult for me to remember the early frustration of trying to use design software. I've always been fortunate that for some reason I just get it right away. I have my own frustrations though at the high end. Sometimes and old dog just doesn't feel like learning new tricks.

   Feel free to ask more questions. I'll answer them as I have the time available. I enjoy helping out but I do need to work and my wife keeps reminding me of the chair for the living room I'm supposed to be working on.

   I've attached a couple of other jpgs to show how good Sketchup is for landscape planning and projects. The larger view is my home and land (we own a small treefarm). I had all of the layout done long ago in Autocad and just recently imported the drawing file to sketchup and started by putting the trees in from components. I drew the house, shed and any custom elements. The small greenhouse attached to the shed has not yet been built. If I ever get the rest of the things I need to do around here done I may actually get to it by 2008 :)

   Regards

   
1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 29, 2006 11:42pm | #6

   Thanks!  This afternoon when I have more time, I'll go through those tutorials, and also try your suggestions.

   In the meantime, here's a simple thing that I've had trouble doing....

   Drew a rectangular box (3D), standing in the tall direction.  Then wanted to put a "top" on it that extends past the box edges all the way around (like a flat hat).  Could not figure out how to do this easily!  Most of the time, the "hat" ended up in the wrong plane.  Even if I got it in the right plane, when I tried to "push/pull" it to make it 3D, there ended up being a cut-out in the middle that corresponded to the base box.  And then there was the problem of making it symmetrical around the extended edges.

   Somewhere years ago, I had a drawing program that was really easy to select and drag objects in.  It's that kind of simplicity my poor ol' brain wants, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   John_D | Jun 29, 2006 11:53pm | #7

   Actually, doing that hat is pretty easy.

   Create your rectangle, "pull" it up so it's a solid box.

   With the Push/Pull tool still selected, press and release the Control key, which will put a + sign next to your cursor.  This means when you pull, you'll create a new shape "adding on" to the old shape.  Pull up the top of the box to the thickness of the "hat".  Press the Control key again, until the plus sign by the cursor goes away.

   Now you can pull the sides of the "hat" to the left and right, forward and back.  It will be exactly on top of the first shape, with both its planes dead parallel to the planes of the bottom.

   EDIT:  Once you've done this, you'll want to look at the underside of the hat.  There will be four "extra" lines, which you can just select and delete.

   My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

   Edited 6/29/2006 5:00 pm by John_D

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 30, 2006 12:49am | #8

   Cool, thanks! I'll give it a try.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   treefarmer | Jun 30, 2006 02:47am | #9

   Good advice from John D. You could also select the hat and group it and then scale the group. You would extend all 4 sides at once but that doesn't give you the straightforward dimensional control that moving each side gives you.

   Once you start to use any command in sketchup you can complete it by typing in the dimension for precision. For example if you started the push/pull and typed in 2" it will snap to exactly 2", 4' gets you 4'.

   Keep chipping away at it. Once you get it you will love what you can do with it.

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 30, 2006 03:28am | #11

   Hi, Stone, I'm workin' on it!  Have to ask, though, have you ever tried working in inches?!  The default scale is so huge!  Too funny.  I'm making a template that starts with a 1' square as my reference plane.  Zoomed in a million times, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   treefarmer | Jul 03, 2006 07:32am | #19

   Hello Forest,

   Go to Window, Model Info and set you precision and snap distance. You can also set format, snap angle ...etc...

3. 
   forestgirl | Jun 30, 2006 03:32am | #12

   Here's a question for ya.  When I make my rectangle (2D) and then pull it up, I'm getting negative numbers in the "distance" box.  But I'm above all the plane lines.  When I change the distance number to the exact number I want (11") the box stays in the place it started in, so where the heck do those negative numbers come from??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

4. 
   treefarmer | Jul 03, 2006 07:29am | #18

   HHHmmm...strange. Are you sure you're on top. Actually shouldn't matter. Try clicking on the view button for the roof...little houses...looks like the roof. I only get negatives if I'm push/pulling a cube in the negative, past the other side that is...

   Does it happen in a brand new file?

5. 
   forestgirl | Jul 05, 2006 05:44am | #22

   Thanks for all the tips, I just got back from a mini-vacation.  Will give it a try tomorrow.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

6. 
   BigFrank | Jul 06, 2006 07:26pm | #23

   The thing that I find extremely frustrating in sketchup is when you create an object touching another object it becomes permanently and utterly part of that object!If I draw a piece of wood and then "remove" a dado from it, lets say I want to add another dado a specific distance from the first dado, how do I do that?

7. 
   Rich14 | Jul 06, 2006 07:49pm | #24

   Frank,

   Objects are "sticky" in Sketchup for a reason. Once you have worked with this feature, it's indispensible when you want it to happen. (Everything in Sketchup works for a good purpose).

   The "stickyness" property happens because as soon as the 2 objects touch, they immediately share the common boundary. That is, if you bring 2 rectangles together, they each "lose" a wall to the common wall they then share.

   The way to stop such behavior is to make one or both objects into a group. They will then stay as independent (non-sticky) objects which still "attach" to each other as desired (by pullng by a wall or corner to "snap" to the other), but won't attach in a sticky fashion.

   In fact, making objects into groups is a far better way to keep things organized in Sketchup than placing things on individual layers. Layers don't really do a good job in Sketchup.

   To measure a specific distance, use the Tape Measure tool. It will place an alignment line to which you can draw a new object or drag an object. Or you can place or draw a new object, measure it's position with the Tape Measure, from the desired location, grab it with the move tool, move it slightly to activate the move tool's coordinate entry, then enter the orignal measured quanity to move the object exactly to the desired point.

   Rich

   Edited 7/6/2006 1:27 pm ET by Rich14

2. 
   forestgirl | Jun 30, 2006 03:23am | #10

   FYI, it appears the components only work with the Pro version.  Of to work on my assignment now.....forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   treefarmer | Jul 03, 2006 07:35am | #20

   Well that takes some of the fun out of it. Actually it may be a version issue. If you go here you can get the Version 4 libraries.

   http://www.sketchup.com/index.php?title=Components+4

4. 
   PCM | Jun 30, 2006 04:00am | #13

   Stoneaxe,

   I downloaded the freebie 2 weeks ago, and have spent a few hours on it. I am amazed! It often crashes my system when I start it, but think that is a problem with Norton vs. Microsoft vs Google. 

   Full disclosure, I went to comm. college for Autocad, worked for a civil eng. for a while, have ACAD 2k for my woodworking dwgs. ACAD is not worth the trouble to use in 3D, IMHO! But now I will be able to show a prospective customer a perspective of their project. And can now show my better half what our landscaping changes will look like!

   Questions: 1. Is the Google/sketchup chat room/forum "safe"? I do not want to get on Googles "mail list", but do need to ask some questions. I have never gotten any spam from this forum.  2.  Does sketchup offer the option of clicking on a line (or multiple parts), and then clicking one blue box, which gives a red "hot box"? I have just started getting to know the different commands.

   Thank you for your time!

   Peter

1. 
   treefarmer | Jul 03, 2006 07:22am | #17

   Hi Peter,

   The chat room has always been safe. But that was prior to Googles buy out. I haven't been on it in awhile. Been working mostly with Autocad the last month or so.

   I'm not sure what you mean by question 2. If you mean is it like Autocad as far as habdles go. It is similar. Dragging windows for left or right allows multiple selection. But you cant select multiple handles. Handle only appera for certain commands, like scaling.

1. 
   PCM | Jul 03, 2006 03:50pm | #21

   Stone,

   You answered my question #2. Thanks!

   I will keep chipping (or banging ) away.

   Pete

5. 
   chipo | Jun 30, 2006 11:45pm | #14

   I've been playing with SketchUp a bit, though it's barely usable on the cruddy old Mac laptop I have at work. Need to try it out on my wife's Mac (and hope they come out with a Linux version soon).

   Here's the thing I'm currently wrestling with: I built a kitchen base cabinet by creating a rectangle and pulling it out to a solid, then cutting out two rectangles on the front and pushing them in 3/4" to create the face frame. Now I want to make that same base unit in different widths, but I can't figure out how to widen the cabinet without also widening the face frame "stiles".

1. 
   John_D | Jul 01, 2006 12:56am | #15

   Here's one way.

   Use the Select tool.  Control-click on each of the lines making up the right side, inside and out, turning them all blue.  That's the four lines inside each box, and the four lines that make up the overall side.  Then select the Move tool, and drag the whole lot in the desired direction.

   You'll widen the cabinet without thickening the stile.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

2. 
   treefarmer | Jul 03, 2006 07:15am | #16

   John D comment is correct but you can select things much easier by using a crossing window. A window dragged from left to right selects only those items completely in the window. A window dragged from rifgt to left all items it crosses.