Replies

1. 
   RalphBarker | Dec 18, 2012 12:46pm | #1

   kids chair

   I can't speak to the glue issue, but you might want to consider the CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) regulations for making virtually anything for children. There are a couple of threads here about the issues.

   Bottom line, I think I'd label the chair "For use by small adults only". ;-)

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 18, 2012 04:59pm | #2

   Here is a link to the CPSC website for details on the law.  Bottom line anything made for used by a child 12 years old or younger must be submitted for certification as to its safety.  I would think something made using a UF adhesive would be a concern.

   http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/smbus/manufacturers.html

1. 
   Mikes1098 | Dec 18, 2012 07:48pm | #5

   For those interested, I did find the following article on the CPSC website specifically about formaldehyde:

   http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PUBS/725.pdf

   It basically made it sound like we are already completely surround by formaldehyde containing products -- sounds like stuff from the 70s and 80s contain probably higher levels. My other takeaway, is unless you are sensitive or allergic to it, it probably won't bother you when dealing with normal levels.

   I will most likely either use original titebond extended (working time might be tight) or epoxy.... Rather play it safe when dealing with kids. 

2. 
   Westchester | Dec 18, 2012 06:04pm | #3

   Why do you think Epoxy is so expensive ?  - what's it going to cost you $ 20.00 total ?  - you'll have peace of mind and it will more than do the job.

   SA

1. 
   Mikes1098 | Dec 18, 2012 07:29pm | #4

   Thanks everyone... I am not selling the chair, it will be used in the family. I checked out that website, I did not see any mention  of formaldehyde. 

   SA -- where can I pick up just $20 worth of epoxy? For that much I would probably just do that. 

   I had also emailed DAP to see if there was any concern with the cured product -- they replied that it was completely inert once fully cured.

1. 
   Westchester | Dec 19, 2012 06:25am | #6

   Adhesive

   West system sell a 32 oz kit - you won't use the whole thing.  Home Depot sells loctite - smaller size

   SA

2. 
   RalphBarker | Dec 19, 2012 12:24pm | #8

   selling vs. gifting

   Not to be an alarmist, but we need to be aware of the fact that the CPSC regulations aren't limited to items being sold.

   Once that is considered, one can return to practical thinking. Unless, of course, the gift is being made to a litigation lawyer.  ;-)

3. 
   acornw | Dec 19, 2012 10:20am | #7

   You are all insane

   Holy moly!  Do you all really think the evil glue companies market such toxic products to amatuer woodworkers, and therefore have so little regard for the customer that will poison any end users of their product?

   I can't beleive this is even a serious dialogue!  This is shameful!

   Is there any evidence of children dropping dead or falling ill after a few minutes - or even years - of rocking?

   Thie simple, yet un-alarmist answer, is that all glues stabilize and become chemically neutral as they cure - dry.  Same with finishes - they are only toxic (if they ever are) in the working phase, not after drying. You can eat dried glue as well as dried finish.

   Formaldehyde glues (actually when used as filler more than an adhesive) can trigger a negative response with some sensitised people after some sort of massive exposure to formaldehyde - usually from a poor mixture and/or bad chemistry that causes the out-gassing.

   For what it is worth, the formaldehyde in new carpet is about 3,000 times what you would see in lousy partical board furniture.

   If you still have any concern, there are probably about 5 options you have for adequate substitution.

1. 
   RalphBarker | Dec 19, 2012 12:31pm | #9

   Practical considerations

   True, the lawyers at glue companies are probably more concerned about liability issues than end users. While this wasn't always true in the past, it probably is currently. Thus, most products can be considered safe, when used as directed.

   A potential concern arises, however, when a child might eat the chair containing an exotic glue.  ;-)

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 19, 2012 01:02pm | #10

   All that you say may or may not be true but the fact is that the regulation is the law and is applicable to anything made that's usable or intended for a child 12 years old or under.  It includes toys, children's furniture, clothing, jewelry, etc.

   The regulation came about due to the proliferation of items made in Asia that had dangerous components or content.  These items were being sold by the biggest marketers in the US and there were children that were harmed.

4. 
   dminnery | Dec 19, 2012 01:58pm | #11

   I make toys

   I started a very small toy company 2 years ago, I use domestic hardwoods and some baltic birch ply.

   The ply does have some trace elements of formaldehyde, but is CLARB (California Emissions standerds-very strict) and European Union compliant. What CSPSC is concerned about is lead in the ply.

   If you have under $1,000,000 in sales each year, you are exempt from some testing of materials. If you can get a statement from the manufacturer saying there is no lead then you are ok. If you are over 1 mil. in sales, it has to be tested.

   I spoke directly with the agency on this one.

   Furniture also has to be tested by an approved lab for saftey standards and approved for the correct age range of kids.

   Sounds like this is for family/friends, I think making it with some common sense regarding adhesives and construction is enough.

   FYI-I would prefer to use Apple Ply with their soy based adhesives but it's 3x as much.

   hope that helps

   David

5. 
   Mikes1098 | Dec 19, 2012 08:03pm | #12

   All,

   I searched and searched the CPSC website and found no limits or rules on formaldehyde usage  i agree with everyone who says the glue is completely inert and safe once cured.  For those claiming we are ignorING a safety rule of the CPSC please quote the exact rule.  I want to do the right then but i cannot find anything that says there is any risk.

   Thanks

1. 
   RalphBarker | Dec 20, 2012 06:47pm | #13

   CPSC links

   These may help:

   http://www.cpsc.gov/info/toysafety/plain.html

   http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/testtoys.pdf

   http://www.astm.org/Standards/F963.htm

1. 
   Mikes1098 | Dec 21, 2012 03:50pm | #14

   Thanks Ralph