Replies

1. 
   rslatm | Feb 05, 2004 09:02pm | #1

   vacupress.com

   Has an active forum and good support.
2. 
   aksophie | Feb 06, 2004 04:54am | #2

   Vacupress.com

   Others may be just as good. If so,they would be an excellent company too.

3. 
   Scrit | Feb 06, 2004 04:00pm | #3

   Why not take a look at Joe Woodworker (http://www.joewoodworker.com). Lots of gen on veneering, supplies, veneers, oh and a complete how to build a vacuum bag press article (long) which includes venturi stuff. They'll sell you as much or as little as you want

   Scrit

1. 
   Norse | Feb 06, 2004 06:26pm | #4

   Thanks Scrit, I've been there too. I'm trying to weigh building one (the time, reading, trouble shooting, etc.) with buying one. As much as a "home made" guy that I am, venturing into these unknown depths have me a little cautious. Have you built your own? Did you buy a set up? Do you make your own bags?

   Thanks again,

   Norse

1. 
   Scrit | Feb 06, 2004 08:07pm | #6

   Hi Norse

   Yes, I built my own and I made my own bags. Most of the pneumatic fittings and pipework I sourced from a local compressed air supplier, a few things came from the British equivalent of Joe Woodworker (called Bagpress). I just wish that I'd found Joe Woodworker earlier - it would have saved a bit of headscratching. I think the most complicated bit is the vacuum pump and controlling it and I started with a major advantage there - a 10 cubic metre/hour Gast rotary vane vacuum pump sitting under the frame of one of my machines (a pin router). Building the press itself is pretty easy, the only thing I probably wouldn't do again is make my own bags. I am now seriously considering making-up my own vacuum table, complete with low-voltage heater elements and a silicone rubber membrane for small batch work.

   Scrit

   Edited 2/6/2004 12:24:25 PM ET by Scrit

2. 
   Telemike | Feb 08, 2004 08:29am | #8

   I'm using an old refrigerator compressor that someone tossed in the field south of us. The freezer part doesn't work - that's likely why it was tossed!

   I am using "contractor's cleanup bags" from OSH. I put a 1/2" aluminum tube through one corner of the bottom and seal around it with silicone sealant. It put in the veneer stack and seal the open end by wrapping it around a stick and then clamping a second stick to it.

   This was to see if I like vaccuum veneering - I do and I'll get a better set up some day with a real vinyl bag and a diaphram pump.

4. 
   StorzInVail | Feb 06, 2004 06:51pm | #5

   I used the joe woodworker site. I'm using an old freezer compressor as my main vacuum draw along with a shop-vac for getting the intial vacuum down. Total assembly took part of an afternoon. No problems for the last 8 months. Price came in at about $120.00 incl paying a refrig tech to drain the freon from the old freezer.

5. 
   migraine | Feb 07, 2004 10:20am | #7

   try http://www.qualityvak.com   I love their controllers.  And I prefer the Gast oil-less rotary vein pump(electric type, not venturi).  The larger the better.  Graingers sells this type of pump.

   You can make your own bag with a piece of patio vinyl.  Glue the bag together along the edge and leave the bag open at both ends.  Two sticks and a few 2" spring clamps at each end will hold the bag closed until the vacumm is drawn down . Once that happens, the bage basically seals itself.  My first bag consisted on the two sticks clamp together, the I drill about a 3/4" hole through the edges with a fosrtner bit.  This is where I stuck my hose through the vinyl.  Basically the vinyl end of the bag wrapped aroung the hose and the holes drilled in the edges of the sticks formed a pocket for the hoses a bag.  It made a very tight seal and rearely leaked.  If it did, I would apply a little caulking/putty at the seal. The stuff used for sealing leaks on trailers.   Some of the other comapnies out there have some fancy "ziplock" or other types of end clamping devices.  I still used this method sometimes when I have a weird shaped part to press.  My preference now is to used a 5 sided bag that is attched to a steel frame .  This completed unit then seals itself to the top of a table.

   Making your own is definetly cheaper, especially when there is a learning curve involved

6. 
   douglesso | Feb 08, 2004 07:14pm | #9

   I bought a gast pump off of ebay for $200. It included a controller, and large vacuum tank, which is really nice to build up the vacuum, and then open the valve and "Thunk" the vinyl slaps down. BUT, all this said, I made my own bags, and eventually my own table. Here's what I recommend.

   1. Are you sure you want to use a venturi? Unless you van get your system super tight, or are using a small bag, your compressor is going to run A LOT.

   2. Make your bags from Vinyl or even better clear poly. I used vinyl, but it doesn't stretch well around large objects. Poly is the best, but good luck finding it in clear. They sell 60 mil or so at home depot for tub liners, but it's black. Just play with the stuff and you will see the advantages. It can stretch and return to its original shape.

   3. Buy the bag fittings from Joe Woodworker. I tried to make my own from suction cups and stuff, but it was a headache.

   4. I finally broke down and made a frame press. I ordered 1.5 inch square aluminum tube from a company called 80/20. I just have a sheet of vinyl across the frame that comes down over a table. This works alot better than trying to fit everything into a bag. Oh, to seal the ends of the bag I used two different diamteres of PVC pipe with a slit cut down the length. You slide one over the end of the bag, roll it up a couple of turns, then slide the bigger pipe over that. Vinyl really doesn't like all the rolling and it's tough on the seams.

   Good luck.

1. 
   mitch | Feb 08, 2004 11:24pm | #10

   i have a couple air tanks i bought from woodworkers warehouse(?) that they sell for reserve volume tanks on vacuum presses.  i needed them for another purpose then changed my mind and never used them.  if anyone's interested i'll look up what i paid for them and cut you a deal- they're just taking up space around here.

   m

2. 
   tufenhundel | Feb 09, 2004 06:02pm | #11

   Can you give more information on your table?  How did you construct the seal?  Did you hinge the frame?  How?  What is the shape of the top sheet of vinyl? 

   I've always wanted to build my own table, but shop space is limited.  And I an not too sure on creating perfect seal.  Got pics?

   Thanks.

1. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Feb 10, 2004 12:33am | #13

   Hound --

   I once built a 7'x8' top-loader. The platform was a melamine/plywood torsion box, covered with a sheet of vinyl. (Plywood and melamine look solid, but air leaks through that large a surface.) I can only get vinyl 50" wide, so I got 7' wide by lap-joining it, and then double-layering it near the edge so that there wasn't a problem sealing it at the overlap. The frame was made from dry 2x4s with plywood gussets at the corners. There was another sheet of vinyl on it, taped to the frame around the outside of the frame. The seal was weather-stripping foam tape. It comes in 20 foot rolls at HD and others. There's two kinds. Get the one that says close-celled. I used clamps to compress the frame against the platform -- one per foot or so worked. (That adds up to be lots of clamps.) I used urea-formaldehyde glue to make sure I had enough time to get all those clamps in place.

   The thing did the job, but it was difficult to store; a rolled-up bag is much better. Because of this, I eventually got rid of it.

   Jamie Buxton

2. 
   douglesso | Feb 10, 2004 04:34am | #14

   The frame set up is pretty straight forward. For the seal I ordered some special foam tape. I can't remember what it's called, but air can't go through it. I used 1 inch tape around the edges of the frame. For the bag, I sealed it loosely to the top of the frame with contact cement. The table, two sheets of MDF, but one would probably work. On top of the table and inside the frame is a platen made of melanine particle board, scored with 2x2x3/8" cuts to let the air flow. I sealed all of the wood with basic sanding sealer. The vacuum hose connects under the table and comes up on a corner of the score marks in the platen. This set-up works really well for flat panels. Check out joewoodworker for lots of good info. I vacuum setup is a little complex, but he has lots of great ideas.

   Doug

7. 
   FFFW | Feb 10, 2004 12:02am | #12

   My setup is a hybrid of parts from various places.

   The pump I bought used from E-Bay, it's a GAST pump, though I forget just which one, I think it's about 1/3 HP. I think I paid about $120 or so. It's reasonably quiet, and small.

   The first bag I made using vinyl sheet from TAP Plastics, using their recommended glue and the instructions from Joe Woodworker on how to put it all together. I built the vacuum reservoir from black PVC pipe (the thicker stuff, recommended by Joe Woodworker), and found some good cheap plastic hoses and brass fittings at Ace Hardware.

   The first pressings I did, the pressure gauge said that I could pull 28 inches of vac, and the small curves I was working with at the time did just fine with way less than that.

   The second pressing called for something much taller in a finished part (8 or 9 inches tall of curves), and it didn't go as well. After a bunch of head scratching, the best answer I could come up with was that the vinyl I was using required a lot of pressure to stretch, and that energy wasn't going into bending wood. So I ended up buying a poly(urethane?) bag from one of the commercial companies since I failed to locate the poly material after some searching (and everyone I talked to seemed to have a different opinion of what kind of poly was really being used).

   The poly bag has been a real pleasure, the three or four other pressings I've done since have all been laminates making curved boards.

   One project involved veneer onto a flat board that I later cut apart and made into a curved lamination, which worked well, though the glue came up through the pores of the veneer I was working with and I was very thankful I'd used waxed paper between the project and the bag so the glue didn't get on the bag. Another small bit of glue escaped at the corner and the Gorilla glue I was using stuck to the bag quite well.

   The most recent effort required making serpentine drawer fronts, and I initially thought about using epoxy, but after some worries about gluing the bag shut, I decided to go with a urea formaldahyde resin glue. Afterwards, I have learned this glue doesn't stick to plastics very well at all, and that I could wrap my parts in saran wrap to keep it all off the bag and make cleanup easier.

   I'm a hobby user, so I work at home. I'm really glad I have the vacuum pump, because one drawback of most glues is temperature (don't cure at all below some temperatures). Since I'm pressing in the winter, I needed to bring the setup inside the house ... and I can only imagine how high my cat would jump when a venturi opened up to recharge the vacuum (or how dead I'd be of glares from my wife).