Howdy,
For longer than I can remember I have been using an automotive engine valve stem glued into a shop-made wood handle, as a tool for burnishing the edges of cabinet scrapers (the hand held, card-type scrapers). Results seem to be satisfactory. A few days ago I was looking up something in one of my old tool sharpening books, and the author recommended NOT using valve stems for this application, saying they were not hard enough. He recommended a burnisher of the type specifically intended for the job. (The author is Leonard Lee, who I respect as an authority on sharpening.) Would I get more consistent results, or even better, sharper scraper edges using a tool made by Crown, Pfeil, etc? Your thoughts or experiences on this appreciated, as always.
Gary
Replies
Hi Gary
You could do a decent job with this pinion gear!
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Guess the make and I'll send it to you ... :)
I have used a Crown burnisher for years, and it has been great. I hear great things about the LV one, and I'd look at that first (it has different thicknesses).
More recently I made one out of carbide (courtesy of Tony Z). This is skinny, slippery, and hard. My favourite.
Crown at top, carbide below ...
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Regards from Perth
Derek
I also use the Crown with good results.
Guess the make and I'll send it to you ... :)Sort of looks likes the Power Takeoff shaft on a US Army M543 I use to drive a bit..
Nope.
It comes off my '57 Porsche 356 (still restoring after 10 years.. almost there!).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Is it a speedster?
Is it a speedster?
Hi Dan
No, unfortunately it is not a speedster ... I can dream. (sigh)... just a basic (1957) A coupe..
The motor, gearbox, brakes, pinion gear, electrics are all done. I have a little blocking to do on the body (I did all the panel beating myself), mostly as a result of dings around the workshop, then it will be ready for a final re-spray (black) and new leather interior (red).
This is what it should look like (this is not my car, but one exactly like it):
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10 years in the works sounds a long time, but this has been on-and-off. It has always been mobile - I'd do a bit of resto work, then drive it some more ... a fun car.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Long term restorations??? I have a 1950 MG that I have been restoring for ... a few years. I've owned it since 1968.
I noticed your car is German side drive. That should be fun for you on the weekends!@#$
I loved driving my old Morgan with English side drive.
post a photo when you get her painted.
dan
> It comes off my '57 Porsche 356 (still restoring after 10 years.Um... isn't it going to run a little rough without that part? :) My dad restored a few vehicles over the years and he always seemed to have a bucket of parts left over. Makes you wonder. ;) Andy
Anyone use the Glend Drake burnisher/file combo on sale from LN? I've been thinking of getting this tool and would love impressions from anyone who's used one, or has reason to believe it would be a good or bad purchase.
Thanks in advance,
---Pedro
Derek,
Is it from a Porsche? (you can keep your valve stem - I have a burnisher!)Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I have some of Tony Z's carbide. The very high polish and the natural lubricity he mentions make them a whole 'nother smoke. I love it, but have had to get used to the fact that there is almost no friction. You must be careful not to just shoot off the end of the scraper and cut your hand (don't ask, but I now wear a glove for the process).
Joe
Edited 2/20/2008 10:24 pm ET by Joe Sullivan
Joe, could you ask Tony Zaff to distribute a few of those to forum members? Comes under the heading of "advertising expenses" (;)Philip Marcou
Phillip,
If I'm not mistaken, I believe I mentioned in a former thread on Knots that when I would have some more available I will post for members! At the moment my stock is virtually depleted, but since the supply is generated from core pins wearing beyond the tolerance range in my manufacturing business, I should have some more over the next few months.
As an aside, I also have some D2 pins that exhibit most of the characteristics of the carbide, except for the lack of lubricity and slightly lower hardness. The polish is virtually the same. Value of D2 is zip so my guys normally trash-can those, while the scrap value of carbide is pretty high, so those are saved.
Is your mailing address posted in your website? If so, I'll add your name to my ongoing list.
Tony Z.
Thanks Tony, I was half joking but would certainly appreciate having my name on the mailing list.
My address is not as on the web site-it is now 422A Golden Valley road, Waihi RD1 New Zealand.I am expecting to revamp the web site soon.Philip Marcou
Dear me, Derek, that should never come off a Porsche. A 1965 Cortina Mk1 yes, dicky diffs were part of the charm....(;)Philip Marcou
I use an old spindle I got from a cotton mill, after about 80 years of being burnished by the bobbins running up and down them, the surface is highly polished. I asked a turner in a machine shop to taper one for me so I could use it as a drift, he broke 2 diamond tipped cutters doing it, that tells me the metal is very hard, I use one now for burnishing my scrapers and it works a treat.
regards denny
Gary, If your scraper cuts grooves in your burnisher, he may be right. If after all of this time, it is still polished smooth, with no blemishes, I would have my doubts.
My favorite one is from a shock absorber from a BMW. I don't use mine in the usual way. I let the burnisher lay on the bench, and roll back and fourth, while holding the blade in my hand.
But then I don't sharpen square either. I sharpen my scrapers like sharpening a plane blade, then just roll the finished edge, rather than smashing the bur out of a square corner. With my set-up, I can remove the bur, and sharpen to razor sharpness and have a bur rolled on 2.5" of blade in about one minute, and it will shave after I have rolled it.
I don't know if others use this technique, but with my arthritis, and carpal, my thumbs hurt too much to push the normal card scraper, so I sharpen mine with a crown to the blade, and can use them one-handed on the pull stroke. I find this a lot easier to use with a more delicate touch.
Hi Keith,
Years ago at one of my previous jobs, they typically filed card scrapers at about a 45* angle. The burr is larger, more aggressive, and lasts longer this way. While I now sharpen card scrapers square across, to get two more scraping edges, it probably works out the same. The old Stanley two handled cabinet scrapers blades are generally filed at an angle. I think this not only yields a more substantial burr for this more robust workout, but I believe, presents the burr at more of an appropriate angle (for the scrapers bed angle) to work efficiently.
Ray
Gary,
Not all valve stems are made the same: they may not be hardened like hell all over....Also, I would think that the shape of a typical engine valve is inconvenient.
Whatever you use, it needs to be a lot harder than the scraper metal. When I use normal card scrapers I use a roller from a big roller bearing, mounted in a brass handle.
And I am going to try Keith's method ....
People pick odd places and stages to dig their heels in and "save money."
Buy a burnisher.
Gary,
I think any piece of hard steel would work. As long as your valve stem is polished and free of nicks, it will work as well as anything you could buy. I recently purchased a burnisher for the woodshop at the historic park I volunteer at, and I was at best unimpressed with it.
For what it is worth, I use a broken solid carbide end mill, I picked out of the trash when I worked part time at a machine shop. The person I worked for still keeps them for me, and I give them out to woodworkers. I just shoved it into an undersized hole in the end of a 1" dowel.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Edited 2/19/2008 6:45 pm ET by RMillard
Rob,
You've said a mouthful about one of the most important parts of a burnisher and that is the need for a very polished surface. It must also be very hard, but equally important is the polish. Many of the commercial burnishers I've seen have most attention put into a fancy handle with a rod that leaves a lot to be desired. Even worse is one that is simply a plated rod.
Polished carbide is the best--for hardness and surface finish, plus the natural lubricity if the material. Polished drill rod such as M2 also works well, but it must be polished. From my manufacturing business I've sent out many pieces of carbide that is used for core pins. As we manufactured to very close tolerances, even carbide wears enough to no longer be usable and hence is scrapped. Currently my supply is pretty much depleted, but in the coming months when I have some available, I will post here. From time to time we also use D2 for core pins (shorter runs) and is nearly as good as carbide.
T.Z.
Tony Z.
Rob
That's exactly what I use. I have a bunch of end mill bits that are worn out or broken. The carbide shaft is so hard, it doesn't have a nick in it from all the times I fastened it in the milling machine. Even today, I don't have a nick in one of them after all the burrs I have rolled. Like you, its not some big savings-- it works and it works very well. If you want to impress the knots crowd stick it in a piece of rosewood and call it a whifferdill and you'll be the only one on the block to have one. Another application is to jam them into a 3/8 inner diameter tube. They fit tight -real tight. I take them to the grinder and make specialty points to turn on the lathe. Its just good stuff.
True there are a bunch of good burnishers for sale and they aren't too much. If you find one that works for you its a nice tool to have and the scraper is such a useful tool I can't live without them.
If the valve stem you are using is still round and has no marks or flat spots from your scrapers, it is more than hard enough to burnish with. You just need a stronger material than the material you are trying to burnish! If its been working for you for years. Why change now. I would bet if you have been using the same one for a while now. It is more than likely it is just fine to use. Just becasue something may be a couple more points higher on the Rockwell test. Doesn't necessairlly mean it will burnish better. If what you are using is burnishig the scraper without damage to itself. It is more than adequate and aside from using more force, a harder tool will do no better.
I have been using a valve stem exclusively for more than 20 years. It does not have a scratch on it. I can't compare it to a commercial burnisher since I have never used one. My scrapers work fine. There is no doubt that the metal is hard enough.
Thanks to all for the helpful replies. ( Nice photo of the Porsche BTW.) A couple of people who replied said something to the effect, if the burnisher isn't being scratched it is harder than the scrapers and is sufficient. Today I looked at under a strong mag. glass and could see no scratches. I then did what Leonard Lee's book advised: chucked in my lathe and polished it with 1000 grit wet/dry paper, then power buffed it with carver's rouge. I'll keep using it. Thanks again to everyone. Gary
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