Hi All,
A couple of years ago I made an outdoor sign for a friend who owns a pub. The sign consists of a substrate of basswood boards edge-glued together. On top of the basswood I glued on pieces of shaped hardwoods and shaped corian to make the pub’s logo. The rest of the basswood surface is painted.
At the time I made the sign I asked different finishing stores for the best outdoor varnish to protect the sign, and they all recommended Minwax’s Helmsman exterior varnish. The pub is in a Northeastern city (Montreal) with cold winters and wide temperature fluctuations from winter to spring.
Well, it’s 2 years later and the varnish has yellowed and peeling in several spots. The basswood boards are delaminating along the glue joint, and the hardwood pieces have turned from dark brown to a dull gray. I want to clean up and refinish the sign for the pub but I want to use a better varnish. Can anyone recommend a product that will stand up to the elements better than the Minwax Helmsman? I see many wood signs in downtown Montreal and they don’t seem to be peeling or weathering badly.
The conditions the sign hangs out in are gusting winds, direct sunlight, heat of up to 85 f in the summer with high humidity and -30 f in the winter and very dry. In the spring there are wide temperature and humidity fluctuations between day and night.
I need to seal up the delaminating glue joint and redo the finish. If anyone has a great product to recommend I’d like to hear about it, thank you.
Replies
Minwax Helmsman contains urethane--almost a virtual disqualification as a good spar varnish. Urethane is inherently susceptible to UV damage. Those who told you to use the Minwax clearly know nothing about good spar varnish. Minwax only tells you to apply two or three coats initially, while the good marine spar varnish calls for at least six coats.
An additional coat of varnish must be added every year (perhaps two that far north. and any ding must be promptly repaired.) The best traditional spar varnish is Epifanes, Z-Spar Captain's is probably next best. Interlux makes a good spar varnish.
But I would not recommend using spar varnish in this context. I would use a good exterior hardwood--Honduran mahogany, heart walnut, or heart white oak. Basswood is not a very good exterior wood. I would then use about three or four coats of the best exterior enamel you can find--Schreuder or if the colors were be suitable, a marine enamel from Interlux or Pettitt. Paint is much more durable than clear finish. But it still won't last forever--every few years, as soon as you notice any dulling of the paint, scuff sand and apply another coat.
If this could be shaded longevity would be much much longer--its mostly the sun that is the enemy.
Not my expertise, but I think there are other materials besides wood better used for exterior signage. Or let it look faded and antique like old pub signs would actually look.
Hi,
Thank you for the useful information and comments. This will be helpful when I renew the sign.
Check out Jamestown Distributers their website is :
http://www.jamestowndistributers.com
They sell marine varnish, paint and epoxy. They also have a number to call for product information and applications.
J.P.
Jamestown is a good place. Its also the place to go when you need weatherproof fasteners.
It is also one of the last places to get decent brass wood screws. Not the crappy chinese and indian junk sold at the big retailers.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Yeah, I agree. I remember an article in Fine Woodworking citing Jamestown Distributors as a source for MultiWoodPrime and Epifanes Varnish, which was used for outdoor furniture to create a UV protecting, long lasting varnish coat. Sean Clarke, maybe was the author?Good article, and the project looked good.MultiWoodPrime (CPES)
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search.do?freeText=cpes&page=GRID&history=TPEpifanes Gloss Varnish
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=92&familyName=Epifanes+Gloss+Clear+Varnish&history=TP
Seems like a good idea, I certainly hope so. I just finished putting on the first of 6 coats of Epifanes over two coats of the CPES epoxy on the teak toe rails and other brightwork on my sailboat. If it isn't varnishing is such a PITA. This is the last warning for my brightwork. If the finish fails in short order it's going to be stripped and let to turn grey.
Regardless of the work, I think you should be happy that you can go for a sail !J.P.P.S. Isn't that what sailing is about? I mean, bitching all the way to the harbor until you get the damn thing under way? HA .HA.
http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Edited 4/27/2006 7:04 pm ET by JP
Absolutely. And then, to further illustrate my insanity I intend to apply a two-part polyurethane paint (Interlux Perfection) on the deck. Note this is a surface to be walked on, hence polyurethane. (The pigment provides the UV protection.) But when you have a 30 year old boat, there sometimes reaches a point. Definately a DIY project since to have the marina do that sort of thing would be a five figure bill, about equal to the value of the vessel. But sometimes you need to feel you are "yachting" not just going out for a sail. But sailing offers an escape not available any other way, and as a balance to woodworking it can be a social endeavor. Cocktails at 1700.
When I was in school in Massachusetts and the weather was nice, Phil had no problem being coerced into leaving the shop early to go for a sail. Eventhough we would just bob around the harbor in Salem, sometimes go up to Marblehead, we always had a good time.I can see why those New Englanders work tirelessly on their boats only to sail them for 3 months out of the year. It is a great way to enjoy the out doors. Plus, you learn to tie all those cool knots.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Steve, I sort of learned my finishing working a couple of summers at a custom yacht builder on City Island. I was one of the finishers. I've laid on hundreds of coats of varnish on mostly sailboats but also power boats. We could count on doing the same boats year after year. As you know, brightwork requires constant attention and periodic stripping and recoating.
I've never used the epoxy then varnish technique. I'll be interested to hear how it really works. The only technique that I have seen work is to spend some money for subrella covers. Most of the boats I worked on kept much of their brightwork covered as much as possible.
I used to big boat race on LIS and was a member for many years of Larchmont Yacht Club. I've probably been in most of the clubs and harbors on both sides of the sound at one time or another.Howie.........
I sail out of Essex, CT (ECYC). Interestingly enough, I first heard about epoxy under varnish from Phil Lowe when I was taking one of his classes. I'll keep the boards informed of results. The theory sounds good, but I'm not a chemist. I mostly crew on other's boats (PHRF) except for a few pretty casual club races on mine, a Tartan 30.
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