Replies

1. 
   Danford_C_ | Mar 30, 2002 04:54am | #1

   cjccolton,

   Teak decks, huh?  Obviously this isn't a daysailer.  My advice would be to step up to the counter and get the Festool, they are worth it.  When I did this sort of work we used Porter Cable Sterling Speedmatic 1000s and 509s (same body, different transmissions), your basic ROSs that you find at the "box" store ain't gonna cut it.

   Yes it's easy to find sheets of the grits you want, any hardware and box store carries them.

   Car finishing compounds have high silicon content and are not suitiable for varnishes.

   Lastly, use marine grade varnishes appropriate for the applications such as Interlux or Epifanes.  Varnishing the deck with high gloss varnish is not advisable nor is it safe, use a teak brightner/dressing.  I would also highly recommend that you visit WoodenBoat magazine's forum...FWIW.

   Dano

   "Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright
1. 
   cjccolton | Mar 31, 2002 05:13am | #8

   Dano,

   Thanks for the advice.  I must have been unclear about my plans since most of the responses indicated that they thought I was planning to varnish the decks - I don't have teak decks on the boat, just brightwork.  Your're quite right, high gloss decks would be a nightmare.  I have single-handed ocean passages and am always thankful for a good non-skid deck surface. 

   I agree with you about the Festo; I tried it out at a woodworking show and really liked the heft.

   I'll look into it further.

   With regard to my original question, I am also interested in varnishing the teak down below.  It currently has an oil finish, that has some discoloration from mold, and needs to be cleaned up a bit before applying a finish coat.  I spoke with the boat builder and are currently applying varnish with foam brushes - the only way to do it - and sanding every coat, the last with 3-4000 grit.  I am wondering if they are using sand paper here or some type of compound.  Andy ideas.

   Thanks again.

   Chris   

1. 
   Danford_C_ | Mar 31, 2002 05:56pm | #16

   Chris,

   You're welcome.  For the topside's teak brightwork, it's largely a matter of preference.  Some folls like it "natural", using a teak brightner at the beginning of the season, other like it varnished. 

   Interlux's Goldspar 95 is a one part polyurethane varnish that is very durable and has UV blockers, it goes on smooth as silk, an excellent exterior varnish, IMHO.  Their Schooner Varnish 96 is a "traditional" spar, has excellent wear properties and UV protection.

   For below decks, I would recommend their Goldspar Satin 60, which is a modified polyurathane, they used to call it Rubbed Effect 60.  I would recommend that you sand to bare wood.  The mold stains could be problematic; in some cases sanding is enough it other cases a heavily diluted bleach solution can remove the stains.

   I will add that some of the premier wooden boat builder's in the U.S. such as Hogden & Sons, use Interlux products.  Steve Thomas, who is well known for his restorations of classic wooden boats, prefers your basic Z-Spar Captain's Varnish.  Guess my point is that going with a high quality marine grade spar varnish or polyurethane will always yeild excellent results and it boils down to surface prep and application..... 

   As to sanding, I use 320 grit between coats and don't find it necessary to sand the final coat...I prefer good China bristle brushes over the foam pads.  Those have a tendancy to get air in them, Epifanes China bristle brushes are the best, IMO.  FWIW.

   Dano"Form and Function are One" - Frank L. Wright

1. 
   cjccolton | Apr 01, 2002 01:45am | #18

   Dano,

   Thanks for taking the time to write again. 

   Since I restored my first boat when I was 13, a 19 foot lightning, I have continued to use interlux products.  I have also used epiphanes blank with good success but always come back to interlux.

   Thanks again.

   Chris

1. 
   Lilshaver | Apr 01, 2002 11:23pm | #21

   I am about to give you a "lead" on some advice. This is from my father who has now passed away so I cannot confirm any brands. Anyway, Dad had many different boats over the years, all older wood hull boats. To varnish teak he told me that the only way for it to really last was to prime the bare wood with an epoxy sealer. When the sealer was not yet completely dry (still barely tacky) he would apply the first coat of marine varnish (thinned). After that, coats could be applied at will.

   Perhaps the wooden boat site can give you more information. Sorry I cannot supply specifics here, but I know that if I were to do what you are about to do, I'd certainly look into this method. The brightwork on my Dad's boats was certainly pretty.

2. 
   observer | Mar 30, 2002 09:32am | #2

   The small palm sander size Makita 5" ROS is an exceptional tool; light, dependable and durable.

   3 to 4000 grit? I haven't seen hook and loop RO sanding pads beyond 400 grit, but these leave a very fine finish and you should have no trouble pulling an excellent gloss finish out of them. Polishing with scotchbrite pads cut to 5" discs will rub out the finish.

   You might be able to find higher grits at an autobody supplier, but unless you are planning a jet black finish with multiple clearcoats, you won't need them.

1. 
   bill_1010 | Mar 30, 2002 04:06pm | #3

   im with dano, get the festool's rotoflex? that 6 inch orbital/random orbit sander. Teak is a hard oily wood that requires the beef of serious sanding. And a deck isnt a small furniture piece.  Most likely a less expensive will have to be replaced due to burned out motors because this isnt a normal finishing application.  If youre worried about the price, buy it, refinish the boat and sell the festool sander to recover your costs. 

   http://www.woodenboat.com is going to be your best source for refinishing and where to get items and help from lots of people that know wooden boats inside and out.

   wear a mask and use dust collection on teak, even outdoors. Its a irritating wood.

   Edited 3/30/2002 9:10:11 AM ET by BILL_1010

1. 
   observer | Mar 30, 2002 08:18pm | #6

   5630.1 

   I am in the process of restoring the brightwork (teak wood on deak such as handholds and caprails) on a sailboat

   The message I got from the post is that on deck is where the bright work to be refinished is, not that the deck is going to be varnished.

   Buy the Festo by all means if thats the choice, but the Makita will easily handle the job judging by the way mine has stood up.

1. 
   cjccolton | Mar 31, 2002 05:27am | #13

   Dick,

   Thanks for the advice.  Is there a specific model that you would recommend?

   Chris

1. 
   observer | Mar 31, 2002 07:36am | #15

   Chris, the model is BO5010. I've had it three or four years, and have had many days where it has run eight hours with no complaint. I've replaced the pads as they wear out, but no other problems ( unlike my Bosch3107 DVS - the Makita was purchased to cover for the Bosch on it's first trip to the repair shop). The Makita is also small and light, qualities I appreciate when sanding non-planar surfaces.

   Can I suggest you do a little experimenting before you get too far down the 3000 grit road. I'm sure you will find that it is not going to notably improve your finish. 

   Edited 3/31/2002 12:39:13 AM ET by Dick

2. 
   cjccolton | Apr 01, 2002 01:42am | #17

   Dick,

   Thanks for the model number - I'll check it out.  With regard to the Makita, it does look like a serviceable unit so I'll look into it out before making my final decision. 

   Yes, experimentation is always the best path.  In fact, I just bought some teak cut-offs which I milled into ten test pieces.  I plan to try out different techniques and finishes before starting on the boat.

   Thanks again,

   Chris

2. 
   cjccolton | Mar 31, 2002 05:18am | #10

   Bill,

   I spoke with Festool yesterday and will talk again with them about their products.  They seemed to push me toward the grinder/sander/polisher whcih goes for $512.  That's quite a price tag.  I think the ROS that does sanding and polishing is for me.  I think that's the one you're recommending.

   Great idea about the Wooden Boat site - I'm on my way.

   Thanks again.

   Chris

2. 
   cjccolton | Mar 31, 2002 05:15am | #9

   Dick,

   Thanks for the advice.  I was in Home Depot and looked at the Makita - it looks like a fine tools.  I'll look into it further.

   Chris

3. 
   Quickstep | Mar 30, 2002 05:22pm | #4

   The last time I did mine, I used a scraper, a regular old 1" wide paint scraper, the kind you pull. I bought several so that I could periodically take a "sharpening" break and sharpen them all so that I could scrape continuously as I scraped. I used a file to sharpen them. Teak seemed to respond especially well to scraping. I could peel off a long, continuous curl and the surface that was left was very smooth. I had some ripple in a few areas which I cleaned up with 120 grit paper. I think anything finer than that could actually impair the adhesion of the varnish as teak tends to take a polish at higher grits.

1. 
   cjccolton | Mar 31, 2002 05:23am | #11

   ChuckT,

   I like scrapers too and they do an exceptional job without the noise and dust.  I will probably use them in conjunction with a sander.  I agree that sanding to a high grit before the first coat probably isin't a good idea but what do you think about getting a high gloss finish and high grit paper.  For example, if we switch to the interior, sanding between coats is a must and dust is a killer for varnish.  If I can sand, either with paper or some compound, I'll get a perfect final coat with less headache.  Any ideas?

   Chris

4. 
   gwcarpenter | Mar 30, 2002 06:29pm | #5

   Two things.

   Yes, go to Woodenboat for more advise.

   Second, teak is often oiled, not varnished. A high-gloss deck?

   You'd need suction-cups for boatshoes.

   I've used McCloskey's Man-o-War Spar Varnish with good results on Mahogany, never tried it on teak.

   -gwc

1. 
   cjccolton | Mar 31, 2002 05:26am | #12

   George,

   Thanks for the advice.  I will definitely go to Wooden boat.

   You're also right - never apply any finish to a baot deck!  I am really interested in the brightwork and the interior.  I am looking for new ways to make a tough job more consistent, faster and better.

   Thanks again.

   Chris

5. 
   HowardAcheson | Mar 30, 2002 08:36pm | #7

   I have spent lots of hours as a boat painter and I am confused by your approach.

   First, sanding off the existing finish is fairly easy but I always used a water rinsing, high methylene cloride paint remover. It cleans everything up much faster. You still will have to sand the teak with 100, 150 and 180 sandpaper before coating.

   I can't tell if you are going to deal with teak decks or not. If so, decks should never be coated with a film finish. When they get wet, they are like ice and folks get hurt. Even coaming caps coated with varnish are dangerous. After cleaning a deck, use a "teak" oil or just leave it be. Teak is naturally non-skid--that's why it is used for decking.

   Good marine coatings, as Dano says, are purchased at a chandlery or marina, not you local big box. What they sell will not stand up like products from a marine coatings manufacturer.

   With most spar varnishes, you will need to scuff the prior coat before applying the next. 180 grit is fine for this or use a gray scotchpad. This is done by hand, not machine.

   You do not "finish the finish" when using spar varnish. Spar varnish contains lots of oil to make it flexible. It's so soft that you merely scratch it and reduce the gloss. A carefully applied final coat will look like glass and you will never get it any glossier. You certainly don't need any sandpaper of higher grit than 180-220.

   For interior work, the coatings manufacturers make interior products and they are the best to use.

1. 
   cjccolton | Mar 31, 2002 05:34am | #14

   Howie,

   Thanks for the response.  You are quite correct about decks and by this time I am wondering if I should go back to school to learn how to write.  Part of my problem was not knowing if the audience would know what brightwork is and so I added the "deck" to clarify the loacation.  My second problem was that I did not describe the whole project.  Maybe my writing skills are also at fault 

   The brightwork was oiled and left untreated for years and is now gray.  I need to bring this up and expect to use Te-Ka or some wimilar prodeuct.  After this, I will do aas has been described. 

   My other questions deals with the cabin.  What's the best way to remove an old and dirty oil finish and wht's the best way to apply a grreat varnish finish.

   If you have advice on these questions, I would appreciate your input.

   Thanks,

   Chris

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Apr 01, 2002 06:13pm | #20

   Chris, first I agree with Dano, I've always had good and consitant luck with Interlux products.

   For the interior, I would first make up a 50/50 solution of fresh clorox and water, put it in a spray bottle and liberally spray all the mildew. The fact that there is mildew is somewhat good news. Mildew grows most readily on linseed oil which is the primary component in most "teak oils", and linseed oil will not make for much of a problem for overcoating with an oil varnish. After getting rid of the mildew, use a good teak cleaner, and a scrub brush, on the interior teak. Use a brightener too, after, to get it as clean as possible. After it dries, apply some mineral spirits to preview how it will look if you overcoat it now. If it is not what you want, you will have to scrape or sand.

   As to finishing, a short story. In the boatyard where I worked for a summer there was a contractor painter who charged outrageous prices for finishing. If you paid his price, he would tape all the openings completely closed except the entry hatch. Then he would put a shopvac in the cockpit, run a long hose inside with a high efficiency furnace filter in the hatchway and completely vacuum the interior including himself and his clothes. Then he closed up the boat. Next day, he would take off all his clothes in the cockpit and carefully go inside and wipe everything down with a tack cloth and begin painting. He would get on two coats that day and then he would then carefully go out. Next day he would do the same thing for the final coat. By the end of the day he was really wobbly--but then, he smoked some funny things when he wasn't working. The finish was outstanding. Don't know if he is still alive.

   So, a dust free environment is what you should be attempting to create for your final finishing. I used the furnace filters but I also put a fan in the forward hatch.

   BTW, I am heading for New Orleans next month to take a sailboat from there to Miami. We'll stop in Key West to have a margarita or two and watch the sun set.

6. 
   Dave10990 | Apr 01, 2002 02:45am | #19

   I spent the better part of 10 years on my sailboat, most of it in the Caribbean.  Got yelled at in Granada for working so hard on keeping the brightwork up, was to0ld I made everyone else look bad.

   There is a book on Brightwork by Rebbecca Whitman, which is very informative.  Try to find it.  I know WB has it, and while I was in Florida I would go to Barnes and Noble to review it.

   I used a heat gun for stripping, makes quick work of it.  For cap rails, I used my PC 5' random orbital.  Teak being soft will loose it's profile very quickly, so be careful.  On handrails and other irregular surfaces I worked by hand starting with #80 and finishing with 220.  For sanding between coats, I wet sand.  Does a great job, uses less paper (very important when you are in an area where it is unavailable, or very expensive)  Epifanse makes a varnish that doesn't need sanding between coats, and builds up quickly.  I would sand after 2 coats, then make sure I finish with 3 coats of regular varnish.  Usually on something that I would "wood", I would do 8 or 9 coats.