Replies

1. 
   migraine | Jun 13, 2004 09:37am | #1

   I have had one for the past 5years and love it!!  This is a machine for small runs of mouldings, not for large runs, even though I have run many 100's of feet of material with the viel ground knives.  I felt it was worth the initial investment. Learning curve was short too.  The more time you spend making a quality template, the better the finished knives will be.

   But, I also feel if you can find the molding in stock, buy it, don't grind it.  It still takes time to blank your rough lumber, and then set up you shaper/molder

1. 
   billsams | Jun 13, 2004 01:47pm | #2

   Thanks migraine,

   When the video demo arrives, I'll decide from there. What  do you use for your template stock? Plywood, steel, acrylic?

    When I spoke with Veil over the phone, they said some have purchased multiple wheels and reground for various profiles,  is this your prodecure?

   Do you buy your knife blanks from http://www.woodtech.com or who?

   Most of the short runs that I  make are not available as stock. Thanks again,

   Bill

1. 
   migraine | Jun 13, 2004 08:17pm | #3

   I have been making my templates from metal and most of the grinding is done with my Foredom carver.

   I can't rember where I last purchased my steel.  It was in a 25" bar lenght.  When I check around the price bar stock price really varied.   I found the biggest pain to be cutting pieces from the bar for the lenght that I needed. 

2. 
   RickL | Jun 14, 2004 12:54am | #4

   You save when you buy 3 or more 25" bars. I deal with http://www.woodtechtooling.com/

   http://www.cggschmidt.com/

   http://www.ctsaw.com/ Connecticut Saw is nice because you can have them cut it too length and you don't worry about stocking all the different widths. Plus when they cut it they give you a balanced piece of steel saving an extra step. Acrylic templates are the norm for many shops. I think it's $20 buck for them to make a template on their CNC unit. It has a 1 mm cutter so it can copy some tight corners

1. 
   billsams | Jun 14, 2004 01:26am | #5

   Thanks Rick,  I have worked with both Woodtech and Schmidt for standard profile knives. I'll check out ctsaw too.

2. 
   Floss | Jun 14, 2004 03:17am | #6

   I don't own one but have used one and for the money I don't know if it is worth the time and energy needed to produce high quality knives for custom mouldings. The last time I used one I had a tough time not burning the knives and drawing out the temper. Plus, for mouldings with a large profile, the time it took to grind the knife was eual to the cost of having it manufactured. I would rather send away for the knives and spend my time working wood instead of metal.

   J.P.

1. 
   RickL | Jun 14, 2004 04:01am | #7

   Good point. We have a Foley United wet grinder and it has it's problems but has to be better than the Viel. We use insert tooling for the flooring and send out for templates and knives for other projects because it's more cost effective for us at the moment.

3. 
   migraine | Jun 14, 2004 06:33am | #8

   I should probably add to my posts after reading some of the other responses. 

   In my opinion, the Viel machine is  for a small shop that needs a small, short run of molding for a particlar reason or another.  it is not designed as a fix-all for all molding needs.  I have used mine where I have needed a short run in a quick turn around.  This is usually within a week from first contact to delivery of needed moldings.  When I first bought my mnachine, I was living in southern calif where there is a decent amount of moldings available, but most were in oak, and paintgrade(not pine).  When I needed molding in clear pine, walnut, mahog., or other woods they were not plentiful and with very limited profiles available.  This is where the machine paid off.  I could make any profile I needed in about an 1 to 1 1/2 hours  and be done with it.  I couldn't even get into my truck and pick up the molding in less time.  If I need large quantily, then that's differrent.  I was also getting a good referal list from misc. companies for doing one-offs when they had no luck finding a small amount.  They usually called me after spending 2-3 hours trying to make it themselves with the wrong tooling/machinery.  I can't tell you how many small jobs that paid $300+/- for a few hours of work, 4 hours tops.  Plus when I was done, the knife was mine.  The viel grinder isn't a replacement for a larger profiler, but then again, what else is out there for $700?.   The profiler doesn't replacer the quality of a higher end model either.  It still has it's short comings. 

   My first job that I used the machine, paid for it.  It was to reproduce a Antique bookcase with exact moldings.  I had added $1000 to the job for custom molding runs.  I have yet to send out for CNC templates, by the time I discuss with some one what I needed and I drive to the post office to mail them the sample, the template is already made.  Faxes/scanning are not that accurate.  You might not be as lucky getting it paid for that fast.  But a few years from now, I think you should be able to look back and say that it paid for itself and then some.  It might also be the stepping stone into a larger machine down the road. 

   Now that I have moved to Washington, to get any materials/moldings is even harder and takes more commuting/researching. No one delivers to where I live, or it's real expensive.  This is where I probably will find a greater use of this tool

   It still comes down to if you find it some where else cheaper/faster, buy it, don't make it.  Time is money.