Replies

1. 
   mapleman | Apr 20, 2007 08:54pm | #1

   wow,

   Try using 202gf glue from lee valley. The gf stands for gap filling, it is a little thicker than regular glue, and squeege it on with a 1/32" plastic trowel from home depot.  The only glue left on the substrate should be tiny 1/32" lines.

   As far as the curling, it's probably because of the excessive glue.

   Lee

1. 
   Nick11 | Apr 30, 2007 08:18pm | #23

   Mapleman,I checked out home depot and could not find the plastic trowel 1/32" that you referenced. Maybe I looked in the wrong dept. Can you tell me in which dept you found it?Thanks,

1. 
   mapleman | May 01, 2007 06:32am | #24

   WOW,

   I dug it out tonight and discovered I made a mistake. It is actually a 1/16th trowel, not 1/32nd. So sorry for the mix up. Here is a photo. I got it about 4 or 5 years ago, I rinse it off with hot water and scrub with a toothbrush to keep glue from drying up in the teeth when I finish with it.

   Lee

   P.S. I got it in the dept with the  ceramic tile supplies

   Edited 4/30/2007 11:33 pm by mapleman

   
2. 
   tms | Apr 20, 2007 09:03pm | #2

   Hey whyowhy,

   I'm fairly new to vacuum veneering myself, but I think I can answer your questions:

   1. A little bleed through is a good thing, it assures that you're getting enough glue down. I personally prefer a foam roller.

   2. If your substrate (ground) is curling during glue up, you should probably be using something different. Gluing veneer to both sides of the ground will help prevent movement. Buy an inexpensive 'backer' veneer for the backside.

   Just to be clear, you should not be applying glue directly to the veneer, only the ground.

   Tom

1. 
   Nick11 | Apr 20, 2007 09:43pm | #3

   I am applying the glue to a baltic birch plywood panel and then laying the veneer onto to the panel. After a second or so, it will start to curl on me.

1. 
   JimV | Apr 20, 2007 09:47pm | #4

   The veneer curling is due to the moisture in the glue. One way to alleviate this is to spray the "show" side of the veneer with a light water mist before applying the glue. I won't guarantee this will work for you, but has done the trick for me in the past.Jim
   "There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other is that heat comes from the furnace." - Aldo Leopold

2. 
   tms | Apr 20, 2007 11:39pm | #5

   Hey whyowhy,I would agree with the earlier poster that if you're curling a seven ply panal, you're probably using too much glue. I roll the glue out with the foam roller on to the ground, apply the veneer, and immediatley turn it upside down onto the platten.Tom

1. 
   user-83153 | Apr 21, 2007 01:24am | #7

   tms,

     His veneer is curling, not the substrate.

   whyohwhy,

     Go here...http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/veneering-tips.htm for a video on applying glue to the substrate. There is a ton of veneer info here. This site is run by Joe at veneer supplies who is a great guy selling some good stuff at reasonable prices. He and his wife are very customer service oriented. I bought some walnut burl veneer from them last year and he e-mailed me to tell me that it had a few more cracks than he remembered but that he was shipping it anyway and when I got it I could either send it back for a full refund including postage each way, keep it and he would give me a $20 credit, or send it back and pick out something else.

     The roller he uses in the video works very well to, better than a foam roller by far.

                    Rob

1. 
   tms | Apr 21, 2007 01:35am | #8

   Hey Rob A.,Good call on the Joe Woodworker site. I had forgotten about the video. BTW that is a foam roller that he's using. I started using that roller myself, one that I bought from him, but I found that it was more difficult to use than a small foam paint roller. The Joe Woodworker roller would bind up if you applied a little too much pressure, I tried adjusting the spread of the wire ends that hold the roller so that it wouldn't bind, and then the roller would simply come loose from the handle.A paint type foam roller has and axle that goes completely throught the roller and holds it securely, yet allows the roller to spin freely under a wide range of pressures. Tom

2. 
   Nick11 | Apr 23, 2007 06:57pm | #12

   Yes it is the veneer that is curling - not the baltic birch plywood. Sorry if I confused everyone.

3. 
   tms | Apr 23, 2007 07:56pm | #14

   Hey WoW,So just to clear up my other assumption, are you using a vacuum press or screw press?If you're only trying to veneer one side at a time, then assembling your components veneer side down should solve your problem, as the weight of the ground piece should keep the veneer flat until you can apply pressure.Another help is to use a veneer softener before glue up. It will help reduce the veneer's tendency to curl when the glue hits it.Tom

4. 
   Nick11 | Apr 23, 2007 08:04pm | #15

   I am using neither. I am veneering both sides of the substrate at the same time, sandwiching it between 2 flat surfaces, and then putting some heavy weights on top to press it together

5. 
   tms | Apr 23, 2007 08:17pm | #16

   "I am veneering both sides of the substrate at the same time"Hey WoW,In that case, I would put my figured, display side veneer down first, followed by the glued substrate, then the backer veneer, followed by your caul. Since the backer veneer is likely not figured, it should give you less problems. If you have a choice of backer veneer, I would suggest something quarter sawn, plain sawn as a second choice, and rotary cut as a last choice. The veneer softener should help too.Tom

6. 
   BarryO | Apr 23, 2007 10:19pm | #18

   Unless your "heavy weight" involves putting it on the floor and driving a car tire on top of it, you're probably not putting enough weight on it to properly set the Titebond coldpress glue.  No wonder you're concerned about veneer curling:  in a press (either vaccum or clamps), thing usually straighten themselved out under the pressure.

7. 
   cadiddlehopper | Apr 24, 2007 01:55am | #20

   BarryO is right on! You aren't using enough weight. Look into building a press or getting a vacuum pressing system. I built a press.Cadiddlehopper

8. 
   jeff100 | Apr 23, 2007 10:03pm | #17

   That rubber roller is an Ink Brayer. You can buy them at any arts and crafts store. I had a heck of a time figuring out what these rubber rollers were, and somebody on this forum clued me in. I ran right out that day and bought mine and never have looked back. I use it for doing any glue up that requires more surface coverage than I can reasonably get with a flux brush, e.g. most glue ups! when done I wash the roller off with cold water unless I forget. When I forget, I wash the roller off with warm water! Point is, unless you are using water proof glue, you can clean the roller either way. Not sure about water proof glues or PPR glues, haven't tried that yet. These rubber rollers are designed to roll ink over the steel typeset letters printers used to use in printing presses. I think ink brayer's are still use them for rubber stamps by the arts and crafts crowd. Makes a first class glue roller!! Just like David Marks uses on Wood Works.....Jeff

9. 
   tms | Apr 24, 2007 12:14am | #19

   Hey Jeff,Really, I'm not lying. I bought the roller that Joe uses in his video, from Joe, and it's NOT an ink brayer. It's a foam roller, and not a very good one IMHO. The foam roller used by Darryl Keil in his video http://www.vacupress.com is money better spent.Tom

10. 
    jeff100 | Apr 25, 2007 09:11pm | #21

    I would NEVER question your integrity.  Not sure why you comment on that.  If I gave that impression, I apologize.

    I do NOT use a foam roller, mine is hard rubber and is a ink brayer as I describe.  I would not use a foam roller as I would be concerned that it would lay down too much glue.  The hard rubber roller pushes around the glue and leaves a very thin layer which seems to be perfect for having enough but not too much.  Just my opinion....having never used a foam roller.

    Jeff 

11. 
    tms | Apr 25, 2007 09:48pm | #22

    Hey Jeff,No harm, no foul.Tom

3. 
   cadiddlehopper | Apr 21, 2007 01:55am | #9

   Place the buttered BB panel on TOP of the veneer, not the other way around. Butter the back side of the BB panel quickly then apply the cheap veneer. Then clamp it down by whatever method you want. It probably would have helped your respondents to know what kind of glue you used.Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   Nick11 | Apr 23, 2007 06:58pm | #13

   I am using Titebond ColdPress glue

3. 
   a_Furnitologist | Apr 20, 2007 11:49pm | #6

   hey Y-O-Y:

      I not sure by reading your post that we can inferr you are using a vacuum press but here's a 2 part intro video on the vacuum veneer press.

     This is part 1....part 2 is in the right margin  http://furnitology.blip.tv/file/204224/  it's also a podcast over at iTunes.... Search: furnitology

   Are you cold pressing or vacuum pressing????.....you didn't menion  platens in your curling issue. Provide a bit more info for me.

   Hope that helps.......Neil

     

    

   My video blog.........Episode 6 - Vacuum Veneering - Part 1 and 2

   http://furnitology.blogspot.com/index.html]

4. 
   DonStephan | Apr 21, 2007 04:07am | #10

   If you'd like to continue working with veneer and gain expertise I would strongly recommend the (first) video by Paul Schurch http://www.schurchwoodwork.com and the first video by Darryl Keil http://www.vacupress.com

   It's well worth purchasing both.

   Using a urea formaldehyde glue might lessen somewhat the veneer curling as it has less water than PVA glues, but curling is a frequent occurence. Taping the veneer sandwich with clear packing tape holds all together while manipulating for clamping.

1. 
   tms | Apr 21, 2007 07:37am | #11

   Hey Don,I concur with the Darryl Kiel video recommendaton. It's not the best production quality but it is a valuable resource. I haven't seen the other video, but I'll be looking out for it.Tom