I have the metal dash piece of a Jaguar . . . cleaned and ready for the Carpathian elm burl veneer (ordered from England) it is approx 1/32 and you can see through the natural pinholes in the veneer. It is also a bit wavy
I”ve done little veneering in the past, never on metal. Can anybody help me? I will (probably) spray a high gloss urathane that’s sun resistant etc,
Replies
Hmmm... interesting problem.
Contact adhesive, such as is used to apply high pressure laminate, should work provided that you prep the metal adequately. You'll want to degrees it completely and otherwise make sure that there are no contaminates on it. Mineral Spirits should work well for removing anything that isn't water soluable. Then you'll want to abrade the metal thoroughly with say... anywhere from 150 to 220 grit sandpaper. I would use a veneer hammer or something similiar to ensure maximum adhesion between the veneer and the metal.
The other thing that might work would be epoxy. What I'm unsure of is whether epoxy's lack of flexibility would present a problem later as the veneer and the metal expand and contract at their own rates. It is that concern that leads me to favor contact adhesive. Although it has it's own concerns. Primarily the fact that really high temperatures will soften it and could potentially lead to adhesion failure under extreme heat conditions.
Does anyone else see any advantages or disadvantages with either adhesive? I know that the contact adhesive will work because I've done it. But, nothing that I've used it on was subjected to temperatures above maybe 100 (f) or maybe 120 (f) at a maximum. But, a car with it's windows rolled up and parked in direct sunlight on a very hot day can result in internal temperatures above 150 (f)... or so the folks at the animal shelters say.
Regards,
Kevin
Hello JJ,
While I agree with Kevin and would definitely use epoxy over contact due to heat concerns - Think of this. I have veneered dash boards in the past. Where metal was involved (I'm not sure what piece you mean?) I faux finished it rather then veneering it. Burls are easy to faux paint.
Good Luck
SA
airplanes use an aluminum substrate for the wood products in the custom jet business.
You might try to find out how they go about applying the veneers to the "aluminum plywood" to make all those high tech cabinets and doors for those corporate jets
Why not ask the people who still make Jags how they do it?
Take the listed possible solutions and carry through with them on some cheapo veneer on some cheapr scrap metal and stick them in the oven at 150 degrees and see what happens! May also help to do two more, one with epoxy and one with spray adhesive and stick them in your freezer to simulate cold conditions. Then, ofcourse, according to the good old scientific method you should do two and leave them sit at room temperature for a control group. May not tell you anything in the short term, but then again one of them might fail. Also would be good to temperature cycle them to get a long term effect.
Adam
I think that's great advice, Adam.
Regards,
Kevin
Check out this site http://www.plamann.com/sys-tmpl/door/ . Thomas R Plamann has link a ways down on his page that is about building cabinets for a aircraft. He maybe able to help you.
Scott C. Frankland
"This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"
My first shot would be epoxy. I've used it to veneer sheet-metal to plywood, and it works well there.
However, I'd suggest trying the epoxy on a scrap piece of the burl before I did the real piece. This caution is based on experience I had using epoxy to glue maple burl veneer to wood. I used some epoxy intended for fiberglassing, where it is very important for the epoxy to penetrate the glass mat. It practically soaked the maple burl through. The amber epoxy stained the maple in patches all the way through the veneer. I scraped and sanded the glue off the front surface, but found that the discoloration continued all the way through the veneer.
I was trying to preserve the light color of the maple, and you have the much darker color of the elm veneer, so maybe this won't be an issue with you. But all the same, I'd suggest a little test first.
Thanks to everyone who responded. . .. I have two gallons of Aerodux 501 (epoxy) that is used in boat building. . . anybody ever use it on anything like this? It dries purple. My concern is that this burl has holes in it that would allow the epoxy through.
Contact cement would be my choice because of ease and familiarity, but I don't have a clue what the melting point would be. . . anybody know? regardless it's for a client so I must do it right. . . on the first try. Again, thanks for the help.
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
You might also want to try polyurethane glue. It is very tenacious stuff on metal or wood. I think that clean up of bleed-thru will be easier than epoxy.
Hello JJ,
I added my two cents earlier and you received lots of good advice from the group.
In summary, I make one final statement. Contact adhesive is unreliable under good conditions. Recommend you figure out a better way to apply the veneer because I see problems in the future - we also haven't talked about finishing over contact adhesive!
Reconsider your approach - Friendly advice!
Regards
SA
Try using a backing veneer. The backing veneer is whatever old thing you have around -- maybe conventional oak, or poplar, or whatever. You glue the burl to the backing veneer, using whatever your favorite wood glue you like. Then you glue the composite veneer to the metal using purple epoxy or whatever else you want. The backer fixes the bleedthrough problem.
LOL I was just gonna suggest that but, you beat me to it.
I think that something along those lines is how the commercial outfits that specialize in the wood dash installation kits approach the problem.
Regards
Kevin
Try using a backing veneer.
Jamie......................real good idea. Will do.There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
Suggest you contact Jaguar (as advised earlier) since their experience is better than guessing and experimenting. (Another alternative would be contacting a firm that specializes in restorations.)
Remember, an auto parked in the sun reaches ungodly temperatures inside that are sure to affect adhesives as well as cause expansion/contraction of the metal.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff
I didn't think anyone had noticed!
Why re-invent the wheel - the folks who make these things have been doing it for more than 100 years.
Ask them!
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