Replies

1. 
   DougU | Jun 23, 2006 06:42am | #1

   Got any pictures of the bed?

   Doug

1. 
   eagle | Jun 23, 2006 07:36am | #2

   I've attached a couple of shots of the rails...Hope they give you an accurate idea of the condition...John

   
1. 
   Segil | Jun 23, 2006 02:32pm | #3

   Eagle,
   I used to repair veneer on conference tables for a living, and I don't believe the sort of damage in your photo can be satisfactorily corrected. I would make a solid piece to cover the damaged veneer which matches size and shape of that on the other edge. It should look just fine, and will have the added benefit of holding the failing veneer from peeling up any further.

2. 
   joinerswork | Jun 23, 2006 03:30pm | #4

   eagle,

   Well, you've got your work cut out for you.  Segil is right, it will be difficult to make a good job of this.  However, if you are determined, here are a few suggestions:

   1- determine the species of wood the veneer is made from, and buy a selection of the same stuff.  You will want a variety, so you can pick and choose for grain and figure; i.e. edge grain or face grain, or if there is burl or crotch, etc.

   2-it may be more practical to completely remove and replace (with a good match) the veneer from some areas of the project, if the veneer is much more than 50% gone.  You may be able to use the removed piece(s) to patch less severely damaged areas of the project. Other areas of loose, but intact veneer should be glued down before starting the patching itself.

   3-patching- it is important to match not only the grain figure (lines in the wood) but also the grain direction (inclination relative to the surface) to achieve a match.  It is impossible to match the color of a patch if its grain is running "downhill" and the veneer you are patching is going "uphill".  It's hard to see the inclination by looking at the edge of a 1/40" thick pc of wood!  You can often see the inclination of the wood to be patched by observing the way the break runs out; do the same to your patch mat'l if necessary.  Wood will change color depending on the direction light hits it- try turning the patch material one way, then another to see if it's darker, or lighter, then match this effect to the background you're patching.  Further, patches will be less noticeable if their shape is irregular, the eye is drawn to a 90* corner.  Make the patches diamond shaped or oval rather than square.  Patches should be the same general size as the missing piece, but just a little larger.  Shape the patch then place it over the missing area.  Scribe around the perimeter, then cut the recess.  Adjust the fit if needed, then glue in place, using the same type of glue as was used originally,  most likely hide glue, if the piece is as old as you say. 

   4-clamping.  The veneer, esp if largish pieces will want to curl as the underside is wetted by the glue.  Get it down as fast as you can. Then hold it in place with tape, and press it down with blocks protected by wax paper or plastic wrap, and clamp.  It doesn't take a lot of pressure, sometimes I just use masking tape on edges of tops, if the tape will pull the patch tight.  After the glue is dry, you can wash off the excess with warm water.  Scrape the patch level, then lightly sand.

   5- If there is a LOT of repair work, plan on refinishing the piece.  When stripping the old finish, be sure to smear the gunk all over your repairs and rub it in good.  It'll help with a color match later.  Otherwise, it's a matter of trial and error to find a stain and finish schedule that matches the old finish.  Sometime the patch's edge can be camoflaged by painting (emphasizing)  grain lines across the joint. This is easily overdone however- drawing attention just to the area you want to blend in...

   Veneer repair is one of the fussiest jobs there is, in my opinion.  Plan on spending lots of time on the project.

   Regards,

   Ray Pine

1. 
   eagle | Jun 23, 2006 04:43pm | #7

   Ray:  Sounds  like you've done this before.  There are a few spots where I can "test" some procedures....It may come down to a replacement.....Thanks for the tip...John

1. 
   joinerswork | Jun 23, 2006 09:16pm | #8

   eagle,

   You're welcome, and good luck with your project.

   Ray

3. 
   cowtown | Jun 24, 2006 03:48am | #9

   you're right to have second thoughts about this.The damage to what appears to be the solid pieces (to the left of the picture) indicate to me that it ain't stain, but rather a tinted laquer, that gives the piece the colour it has. It MIGHT well be 100 years old, but there's dpubt in my mind about the history between then an now. The damage to what veneer I see is so massive that I would concur with the others and say repair of the veneer is out of the question. It looks to me for all the world like a piece of whitewood furniture (made from any whitish wood- maple, birch, etc)From what I seen in that one picture, you bit off more than I would want to chew. There is one really basic book on furniture rehabilitation that might be worth referring to, and that is "the furniture doctor", wherein there is some discussion about the quick and easy ways to rehabilitate furniture, and if I recollect rightly, the time to politely bow out of trying to make silk purses out of sow's ears.With one infrequently encountered caveat to that though, sometimes such pieces are an heirloom, and even when you say to the client it is costly to repair, and that it would cost them much more than buying a similar antique piece in good condition, they still want to go ahead (get a substantial deposit first!!) The downside to that is that despite the problems you encounter, once you start, you commit yourself to deliver.....If you got the piece in your hands, just take it to a professional furniture repair shop and ask for a quote. You'd probably pick up some new scatological terms and euphanisms along the way, not to mention getting some concept of what it would really cost to repair in a shop that already has the experience and equipment to do the job. To make a long story short, I'd back off politely.Eric
   in Cowtown

1. 
   eagle | Jun 26, 2006 07:06am | #10

   Cowtown...You think I bit off more than you would want to chew....I may have bit off more than I might want to chew too....Even though the project is intriguing...with all the very candid helpful responses I have been receiving, Me thinks I might want to reconsider...John

2. 
   cscwem | Jun 23, 2006 04:16pm | #5

   you meant "replace" the veneer right?  from your picture it looks like "repair" is not really an option...

1. 
   eagle | Jun 23, 2006 04:40pm | #6

   Well, it seems like that may be what I have to do....my concern with replacing, however, is matching 100+ years of ageing and use.....John

3. 
   Floss | Jun 26, 2006 05:16pm | #11

   It is hard to tell from the photos but it appears as if the rail is veneered in small ( 18-24") sections. The finish appears rather opaque.

   As others mentioned remove the affected sections and replace with new veneer. Stain and finish. I would think if you could remove the veneer without any problems the total repair and finish may take around 4 - 5 hours. I would charge around $200-$300 for the repair plus materials. Probably more than the piece is worth.

   But, if the repair is done well you will at least maintain the value or increase it for the piece. You will probably have to stain the patches to get close, then use a toner to get to the final color, and possibly a glaze as well to give it some age.

   It does not appear to be that difficult of a repair. However if you have reservations, then maybe you should think it over.

1. 
   eagle | Jun 27, 2006 05:08am | #12

   JP:  Thanks for the encouragement and the suggestions...I think that I have vascillated on this project simply because it's a new area to me and I've received many comments and suggestions...I agree with your time and cost estimate...Being a rookie at veneer repair I might find myself spending a bit more time matching the finish than someone, like yourself, whose done it before...Thanks again for the feedback....John