An acquaintance of mine who has been a finish carpenter for about 25 years has a commission for hundreds of tables for a hotel and I think he may have a design flaw. Looking for advice here.
The table tops will be MDF, about 24 inches by 30 inches, and the tops will be 1/4″ walnut that is resawn and simply laid on the MDF as thick veneer. The outside edge will be an ebony band about an inch wide.
I’m thinking that the walnut will want to expand across the grain and cause a problem because the MDF will be much more stable. To make matters worse, there isn’t any veneer on the bottom and the finish is Briwax.
Anybody have any suggestions as to whether this will work or be a major problem?
Thanks,
John
Replies
You were right to worry about this one, it is a recipe for disaster.
Wood that thick as veneer, really causes you to lose all the advantages of veneer, i.e. its stability. If there is no way around the thick veneer, then I would consult a book such Bruce Hoadley’s (Spelling?), for some inexpensive wood with a similar expansion ratio to use as a substrate, or buy walnut in the No. 1 common grade and use it.
I have on occasion veneered only one side of an object, but this was on a substrate I made myself from very narrow quarter sawn boards, and even then I held my breath. It would be much better to go ahead and veneer the underside with some cheaper veneer. I’ve never bought into the theory that it is necessary to use a similar species of wood for the counter veneering , the glue line is what exerts the pressure causing the distortion, so use whatever veneer is the cheapest. Of course both layers need to be applied at the same time.
Someone is being rather generous when they call Briwax a finish.
There are so many problems with this design and the finish, that this sounds like a major disaster in the making.
He needs to get a workable, buildable design and then figure out if he can still make them at a profit, which I doubt, or he's going to lose his shirt and have a really angry customer. The design, as you describe it, will self destruct probably before the tables are even delivered.
If it were only one table, it would be worth building just as a graphic lesson in the importance of understanding how wood works, but making hundreds of them could bankrupt the guy, he really needs to get some good advice even if he has to pay for it. I'd be glad to help (for free) as much as I can here, and I'm sure others would be as generous, but he really needs to do something before he gets in way over his head.
John W.
I'm thinking this has got to be a joke post. Why?
1. Any hotel big enough to need hundreds of tables is going to use a familiar contracted vendor who will built to a high-use specification, or is just a distributor of commercial furniture. Maybe they would buy from a smaller shop, but only after seeing a prototype and approving it.
2. This guy is a finish carpenter with 25 years experience. He wants to use Briwax as a final finish? He doesn't know that wood expands and contracts?
3. For hundreds of tables, he's using a real ebony banding a whole inch wide, not ebonized maple or poplar? for a 24x30 table, that's 3/4 of a board foot per table. Where is he planning on getting it?
Well, if it's not a joke, maybe he could solve his problem by rubbing the adhesive off the backs of post-it notes to glue down the walnut, and finish it with an oil finish, like maybe somthing from an old deep fryer for extra aroma. I would also recommend soaking the whole table top in a tub of water for a day or so. That should help...
Holy Moly...
Edited 7/1/2003 5:40:12 PM ET by KevinLBS
The thread *is not a joke*. He built a prototype and the hotel loved the design. I think he's doing these for about $175 apiece and can whip them out quickly and make a nice profit. But that assumes no problems later on, which the other appends have confirmed will be a problem.
He has a local source for the walnut, which he is resawing and leaving somewhat rustic on top (some of the teeth marks are to be left). The ebony is from a stock that a local guy bought a very long time ago and is selling for $20 a pound. It's already cut into strips that are about 1/4" thick, somewhat over an inch wide, and about 4 to 6 feet long.
I play pool with this guy and we've simply been chatting about the project. I'll share my concerns with him the next time I see him.
Thanks to all for the input.
John
He could probably just resell the ebony at the going price and make more profit than he would making it into tables. It's a waste of a beautiful and rare wood to be using ebony in this application.
John W.
Edited 7/2/2003 5:38:13 PM ET by JohnW
Hey Kevin- good one. That's the best laugh I have had in a while.
Suggest you tell your friend to stick to what he knows - trim carpentry. Not only is the design bad, but I don't see how he could make a profit at that price with those materials and methods. Perhaps he's unemployed and it doesn't matter??? Has he costed his project complete with labor? You haven't mentioned what he's using for legs. To me it adds up to cost exceeds price with a failed product to boot.
He's only producing the tops. And I do agree that this is suspect in terms of not only how he's doing it but the price/labor issue.
John
Consider swapping the 1/4 walnut for a 3 ply or 5 ply face
John Ersing
Veneer Systems
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