Replies

1. 
   mwenz | Apr 28, 2006 01:31am | #1

   Shalom,

   I have the LV #6. Nice plane. One advantage of the BU planes--aside from criticism which may come in this thread--is the ability to use blades ground at various bevel angles to tackle differing grain situations.

   There is a trade-off. Mainly it is one of what is called the lower wear bevel and its affects on the clearance angle--the area below the blade. Because it is bedded at 12 degrees, as this wear bevel increases [the rounding of the edge] the clearance angle diminishes.

   For me, the only down side to that is one must make sure when sharpening they fully remove the wear bevel for the best edge. btw, wear bevels affect all planes, but a bevel down plane, assuming one does not use too obtuse a grind/honing angle, has more clearance from the start. Add to that the lower wear bevel may grow more quickly or larger in less time on a bevel up plane. Yet to be proven with certainty and it surely does not lessen their ability to plane very well.

   I own various maker's planes of both bevel up/down configurations. I enjoy them all.

   In any case, probably more than you wanted to know. Some people get touchy on this subject and I tend to go overboard in somewhat explaining myself.

   I use two #6s for the task you are asking about. One has a more cambered blade than the other and is used following preliminary removal of high areas with a #5, which has a greater camber than the first #6 I use. This just speeds the process by concentrating on local areas. The more cambered #6 is used to fully equalize the tops, and then the less cambered LV #6 [the camber is very light with the corners mostly eased] to hopefully finish the top.

   If there are places that need it, I follow with scrapers in the form of card scrapers and or a scraper plane.

   Take care, Mike

1. 
   John_D | Apr 28, 2006 01:56am | #2

   So you use your LV #6, the least cambered one, much like some use a smoother?  How does it handle really wild grain?My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   mwenz | Apr 28, 2006 02:42am | #3

   Not as well as the bevel up with a steep bevel...<g>.

   The goal is flat and smooth. If the wood supports a 45 degree bedded plane, then that's what I use as the length helps the flat part of the equation. As well, the question regarded both a LV #6 in particular and a BU plane in general.

   At times, I may swap in a blade with a back-bevel of the wood needs it. Most of the time if I feel I need the length, I will simply go as close as I can and finish off with a scraper plane.

   The risk of the shorter plane, though, is creating unevenness if one has to take too much off that way.

   But as we're talking table tops and my assumption is solid wood, I personally would not use "really wild grain" unless it was veneer on such a large area. At that point, it is a scraper the whole smoothing process as I would have glued it to a truly flat substrate.

   Take care, Mike

2. 
   Shalom | Apr 28, 2006 06:29pm | #4

   Thanks for the info Mike. You might have guessed that I'm a relative novice at this game. I don't even know what a "camber" is, not to speak of sharpening the iron to different angles for different wood conditions. I'm still happy with the standard 35degree angle I try for. Someplace I read that the difference between an expensive plane and a cheap one is the amount of work needed to get it into and keep it in good working conition. So, given your answer, I think I'll stick to a bevel down # 6. Though I like the attachment on the bevel up that keeps the jointing at 90 degrees. You seem to like our Veritas planes, so I think I'll go with that unless you have another suggestion. Thanks again for responding to my question. People are essentially good. Shalom

1. 
   mwenz | Apr 28, 2006 06:59pm | #5

   Hi Shalom,

   The bevel down plane is a good standard choice, one which most people--even novices--are familiar with. The manner in which Lee Valley makes them to be able to open or close-up the mouth is a very good method as it does not involve resetting the blade. This makes the plane less fussy to use for the different circumstances such as taking a heavy shaving [larger gap between the blade and front of the mouth] or a finer shaving [less of a gap].

   You are correct that there is a varying amount of work to make a vintage plane perform well.

   Do note that Lee Valley also sells a fence which attaches to the #6--or other planes--via rare earth magnets and it works very well. This makes for edge jointing an easier process for many people. There are also vintage fences such as the Stanley #386, but it costs far more than the LV one. It's main advatage is being able to set it for different angles quickly, say if one wishes to have a consistent bevel down an edge.

   With the LV fence, you can add a beveled wood strip, but of course takes that little bit of extra effort. But that method also works well when one needs to.

   Just as a point of information, a camber is a curved blade edge of varying amounts. This makes wood removal, among other tasks, easier and swifter. There's plenty of time to learn those concepts.

   Take care and enjoy!

   Mike

2. 
   John_D | Apr 28, 2006 09:33pm | #6

   A camber, in planing parlance, refers to a curve ground into the cutting edge so that when you plane, you actually take a thinner shaving at either side than you do in the center.

   You can picture it this way: If you were to stand a plane blade vertically on a piece of granite, cutting edge down, on a standard plane blade you would see no light under the blade at all.  It would contact the granite from the left edge to the right.  A cambered blade would have a curve, so that neither the left nor the right edge would actually touch the granite.

   A scrub plane's blade gets the most camber of all.  It digs out a trough that looks almost like it was taken with an ice cream scoop.  Normally, you only need to use a scrub plane if you have to remove a lot of stock (thicknessing comes to mind).

   The fore plane will have quite a bit of camber, but not as much as a scrub plane.  If you examine the strokes it leaves behind, they should be flatter than those left by the scrub.

   Next is jointing, yet a flatter blade.

   Finally the smoother, which will have only the slightest camber.  Why is it there at all?  If it wasn't, you'd feel the edge of every pass of the plane, even if you're taking off the thinnest, wispiest shaving.  The camber on this might be only a thousandth or so, but it prevents you from leaving little ridges all across your board.

   Planes you want a perfectly straight edge on include shoulder planes, dado planes, and any plane you use for shooting an edge flat and true.

   Using a fence to get 90° sounds like fun, but you can get excellent results with a shop-made shooting board.  If you'd like to learn more about using planes and don't have someone to learn from, I'd strongly suggest you watch the two videos done by David Charlesworth.  Rob Cosman's videos on planing are also worth the time.  Also, Garret Hack's book on hand planes is excellent.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   Shalom | Apr 29, 2006 12:27am | #7

   Thanks John, I'll look for those resourses. Any suggestions where they might be found?  Shalom

1. 
   John_D | Apr 29, 2006 12:42am | #8

   Lie-Nielsen sells both the three David Charlesworth videos, and a whole slew of DVDs by Rob Cosman.  I bought 'em all, and found them all very worthwhile.  If I had to recommend one or the other, I'd recommend the three by Charlesworth most highly, nothing against Cosman at all, I just liked Charlesworth's style.

   Since I'm posting on it, I want to mention that when I ordered all those DVDs, one of them arrived damaged (one of the two discs in the Cosman drawer video).  I sent an email to L-N customer service, and they got another copy in the mail the very next day, and didn't even make me return the damaged one.  So that's a thumbs-up to L-N customer service.

   Garrett Hack's "The Handplane Book" book, ISBN 1561581550, is available in plenty of bookstores and also at Amazon.com.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

2. 
   pzgren | Apr 29, 2006 12:45am | #9

   Shalom,

     The Cosman and Charlesworth videos can be found on the LN site; Hack's book is also there (in both hard and soft cover), and can be found in most of the woodworking-oriented book-selling sites, as well as at amazon.

   James