I’ve tried various honeing guides for chisles, plane irons, and some turning tools with little success for easy consistent results. Have found that most guides seem to require three hands and more than a spot of luck to get the blades set correctly. Recently purchased the new Mark II honing guide by Veritas and am extremely pleased.
Set up is intuitive, though I could have read the clearly printed instructions. This guide automatically centers the blade and sets consistent, repeatable angles. Comfortable to hold, the guide roller rolls smoothly as you work the blade. Once the primary angle is honed in, a quick adjustment sets a variable back bevel.
My first trial was with an old Craftsman plastic handled chisle which i’ve had for over 30 years. Certainly not my Japanese chisles, but still handy for all those nasty tasks we would never use a good chisle to occomplish. Set it in the guide, half dozen strokes on three water stones and I had a shiny sharp edge. Set the back bevel at 1-degree, and few strokes later, sharper than sharp, all in under two minutes. Even this tired old chisle was taking whisker thin parings off oak end grain.
I like ease of operation and not spending an inordinate amount of time to get an edge, this guide works great. I recommend it highly. Anyone else use it or have good success with other systems?
Butch
Replies
Does that work on knives?
jt8
"If you have only one smile in you, give it to the people you love. Don't be surly at home, then go out in the street and start grinning 'Good morning' at total strangers." -- Maya Angelou
I've been using the first Veritas, the less expensive one in FWW's last issue. I'm very pleased with the job it does, square, sharp, mirror finish (I use a #8000 stone).
The only problem is the time it takes to setup, esp. to square the edge to the guide. Looks like this is easier with the Mark II so I've been thinking about buying it, but, I can't justify it...yet, because the other works fine.
The bad news is I've all but given up on honing by hand. If you don't practice you can't get good right, and I'm not practicing anymore.
I also have the earlier Veritas, and like you found it tenuous at best to set up. It would take longer to set up the blade square and proper hone angle than it did to actually hone the edge.
So I bit the bullet and bought the new one. Glad I did. As I stated in opening post, set up is almost instantanious, square and proper angle.
I too don't want to practice, I want the results, and the Mark II provides that for me.
jmoicbw-bidi
Butch
Thank for that, I'm now that much closer to placing an order...pqken
I have gone through all of my tools with the new Mk II honing guide from Veritas. It positively excels at trueing plane irons. I thought mine were square using the old LV guide, but the new one is dead on. The best feature is the repeatability. Every time you put the blade in, the bevel matches the former setting perfectly. It also can't be beat for micro and back bevels, as you said. The only drawback that I have found is that the narrow chisels are not held very firmly in those wide jaws, and they can skew if you are not careful. I personally am going to use my old Veritas guide with the center thumb screw, or my eclipse guide, for chisels. Either holds them well (mine are Lie Nielsen chisels, and the flats are very narrow on the top side). I dropped a note to LV about the narrow chisel problem, and they seemed grateful for the input.
*One word of caution about the Veritas Mk II guide: The steel parts are not stainless, so be sure you wipe it down and do something to deter rust. My older Veritas guide seems to have stainless steel parts in the roller, because it never has rusted after years of use.
I bought the Sharpening System last year and found it somewhat difficult to set the angle using the guide. Biggest problem I had with it was keeping a 1/2" or smaller chisel at a right angle in the holder, it would twist in the mounting.
The Mark II is much better! I notice the clamping bar bends, so I hope it doesn't break. If I could make one change, it would be to have a side clamp method to hold the blade perpendicular, as it still can twist. Mine did have a burr on the angle guide which kept it from sliding off the fixture after the angle was set, but after I figured out the problem, a file cured that easily.
I'm sharpening with the sandpaper and glass routine.
I do like the Mark II.
Bob
I've had the Mark II system for a couple of months now, and have nothing but praise for it. One of the first things I noticed when using it, was how many chisels are sent out of the factory at 23 degrees, 27 degrees, 24 degrees, 28 degrees, etc.
I can't tell exactly how accurate the Mark II is, but it allows for consistent, repeatable angles from chisel to chisel. The only thing it lacks is an attachment for sharpening scrub planes irons. . .
Bob
"...23 degrees, 27 degrees, 24 degrees, 28 degrees, etc." At least they got the first digit right? Too funny. You guys are drivin' me nuts with this love-fest for the Mark II -- last thing I need is another thing to hanker after.<g>forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie... all joking aside...it's an invaluable piece of kit.. I was lucky enough to be invited to review a pre-production version earlier this year... told to "put it through its paces".. Didn't bother trying conventional plane blades; too easy... skew blades, narrow chisels (1/8") plough plane irons (tapered across their width and down their length)... I couldn't failt it at all.. granted, getting the tool to hold some of the blades took a bit of latteral thinking...butttt...
Within 10 mins of posting my review, I'd ordered one... didn't care how long I'd to wait, this giude could do stuff that my other 2 guides couldn't contemplate...
The production version's even better than the one I reviewed... Sharpening's no longer something to put off till there's no escaping it.. if your blade needs a wee tickle to freshen it, just get on with it... 5 mins and you're away again, with the guide tucked back up in its box...
Awesome tool...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Hallow Laddie,
I am just laughing a little, because if you go to the Lie.N web site, under what's new, you see a picture of a 8million Norton combo waterstone . On that stone is none other than the venerable Eclipse (modern version) honing guide. I am chuffed to see that T.Lie-Nielsen found this to be a suitable partner for his latest stone, because this guide is what I have used for the last 36 years (the same model).
Now I have not even seen the prematurely famous Mk2 veritas guide-here in N.Z the distributor for Veritas said he had not yet heard of it....so I am not convinced that it can be superior to the Eclipse.
In view of this , if anyone out there is prepared to put his Mk2 gauge where his mouth is , and send it to me for a thorough appraisal, I promise to send it back, even if I find it to be superior in any way to the Eclipse.
Philip Marcou
Edited 10/1/2005 7:58 am ET by philip
Philip,I've posted another message to you over in the Bailey vs Bedrock thread, and mentioned a guy named Deneb Puchalski--he recommends the Eclipse over the Veritas pointing out that the chisel or plane iron can shift in the Veritas jig. He has a piece of plywood with little blocks of wood glued to it, square to the front and at a preset distance for achieving the honing angle desired. He holds the Eclipse against the front of this jig, and holds the edge of the blade against the little block of wood; instant repeatability, instant set up. I made a similar jig; works great, but I'm still intrigued by the new Veritas...CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
"he recommends the Eclipse over the Veritas pointing out that the chisel or plane iron can shift in the Veritas jig. " Is he referring to the new Mark II, or the original?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I think he's referring to the original-but the new one still requires that registration bit to square it up, looking at the picture on the web site.Philip Marcou
Definitely the original Veritas honing guide; but it doesn't look to me like his complaint has been addressed, the iron or chisel can still slip out if square, perhaps even a small amount escaping notice. I have the original Veritas, and haven't really had that problem, and prefer greatly it for chisels; but the Eclipse with Deneb's jig/rig is fast repeatable, and effective, and cheap, so for now, that's my method of choice for plane irons. It's kinda hard to describe the thing and how it's used, so I can post a photo if it's useful. CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
I'm quite curious to know if that issue has been addressed, maybe Rob can come on tomorrow and discuss it. Having never used either of them, I don't have anything to go by personally. I'll drop him a line. Thanks, Charlie!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Charlie, slipping out of square is not an issue: the fact is that pressure is supposed to be applied to the item being honed, relatively little on the guide itself.
The issue is:- placing the item into the guide squarely-does this happen automatically as in some other guides due to their jaw type construction, or does one need yet another jig to facilitate this, as appears to be the case in the new Veritas.
Let us have a pic of that projection device-others may like it , but personally I just use a ruler-er, mm's are so versatile compared to inches;)Philip Marcou
"does this happen automatically as in some other guides due to their jaw type construction, or does one need yet another jig to facilitate this?" According to the illustration, no, another jig is not needed:
View Image
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Er, what is that fence thing then? ;)
I think it is yet another item to run and hide when it is needed (if one is using The New Veritas Honing Guide) hereafter known as the NVHG.
Hahhahha, the more I look at that NVHG the more I am tempted to acquire it, should I be fortunate enough to more than cover the living expenses of myself and two cats-why? Because like all the (two)Veritas items that I own presently it looks as though it will be fun to modify and /or improve.
P.s: to balance things up a bit, I have included the aforementioned cats in squabbling mode-normally they are out looking for the odd Golden Retriever to bully, instead of squabbling.Philip Marcou
Ah, that's what I call "kitty-posturing." Gearing up for the big one, feline chest-thumping. Soon to be followed by "whapping" which my kitties are guilty of each morning when waiting for me to dish up their food. The rest of the time, they get along quite well:
View Image
Yours are Siamese, no? What's the specific color? I've had several Siamesee-cross kitties, and they were all wonderful, one lived to be just shy of 20 years old! The very dark kitty in the picture above is our old S-cross cat who has cardiomyopathy (Maine Coon on the left). She's hanging in there. Had Siamese coloring as a young cat, but has gotten darker and darker and darker over the years until she's just about pure chocolate now!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Please tell me how to put pics in like you have done i.e without all the attacments rigmarolle.
My cats are Tonkinese-cross between Siamese and Burmese. so they are not totally mad and they are very affectionate rather than aloof like Burmese seem to be. Colours-lilac point, blue point, chocolate. green eyes, not blue. Now a registered breed.Philip Marcou
You have to know the secret password ;-) Drop me a line, and I'll explain in email.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I think it is yet another item to run and hide when it is needed (if one is using The New Veritas Honing Guide) hereafter known as the NVHG.
ummm.... it's delivered all nicely wrapped inside its own box... if you ummm... put it back in the box when yer done.... ye canna loose it.. ;)
Hahhahha, the more I look at that NVHG the more I am tempted to acquire it, should I be fortunate enough to more than cover the living expenses of myself and two cats-why?
Go onnnnnnn.... be a devil... even you can afford a couple o days worth o beer money... ;)
btw it wasn't me that started the rhumour thatchyer butt squeeks when ya walk... honest...
Ahem....Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Heh, heh, but it is a separate item, No?. I am playing devil's advocate, since I have seen the phrase "one needs three hands" used in reference to various jigs etc.
Aye laddie, I am tight , very tight -all my joints are tight-I save glue like that.
Thank you for the few kind words :-D
P.S-ye wouldnae mind sending me yon gage since wa dinnae hae them heer in Mini Sassenachland yet?
TTTNPhilip Marcou
Hi All -
Waaay too many posts in this thread to reply to individually, so please bear with me, as I try to address as many comments as I can remember from the previous posts ('cept the dog ones...).
As someone has already pointed out - there's no way to make one jig to accept all tools. When designing a product, one makes choices about the "envelope" of products that will suit.
We have designed our jig for repeatability, and independence from as much of the tool geometry as possible. The MKII registers on the face (non-bevel side) of the blade and uses the cutting edge in combination with fixed projection to set the angle. Square is set from one side of the blade only.
The clamp bar is designed with a hollow on purpose – it creates two lines of contact for clamping, which resists rotation. If your blade is not flat (convex in particular) there could be only point contact between the blade back, and the guide bed…. resisting rotation requires more contact (or more friction) and farther from the axis of rotation.
Remember too, that when using a honing guide – you’re not pushing the guide back and forth – you’re still applying pressure on the blade tip, and holding the blade much as one would if one was sharpening freehand. A guide limits the “error” in your motion as much as possible, good technique, and an awareness of the desired result is still required to get the best results.
I still use the MKI for many tasks, and also the side clamp jig for narrow chisels. Each jig solves specific problems better than the alternatives – just as the MKII does. There’s nothing wrong with using multiple guides. We made specific design decisions to satisfy functional requirements on the MKII, and still have a reasonable price… at under $50, it’s great value. Increasing the range of applicability would have compromised some of the design, while increasing the price to the point where it just didn’t have the same value.
We have also (last week) evaluated Stainless parts on the roller shaft, and clamping screws… it’d increase the retail by at least $10. SS is not fun to work with, and corrosion has not been a significant problem in any of our other jigs…
For cambering blades – it hard to make a jig that’ll hold a blade infallibly square, and also allow it to rock… J … two mutually exclusive criteria. If we make the wheel crowned (or beveled, or narrower), the ability to maintain square is compromised. To crown a blade – either apply differential pressure at the blade tip, or back off on the clamp and let the blade pivot.
There will be a second projection jig coming for this guide – one that’ll handle skewed blades with the same repeatability as the current one does for square blades. It will be a discreet add-on solution to handle a narrow set of “problems” that the standard guide doesn’t handle easily. It wasn’t built in for the same reason that we chose not to build-in additional capabilities into the MKII guide – we’re trying to maximize the value of the product for the greatest number of people…
Certainly – we always listen to suggestions, and carefully consider which changes we incorporate into our designs. At some point though, the changes that please one group of people, reduce the utility/value for another group of people. We tell out staff that there is really no such thing as a “best” tool – though there’s always a best tool for an individual, and only an individual can determine what that is. I don’t see that having more than one honing guide is much of an issue (says the guy who sells honing guides…!) if having two or more is the most cost effective solution, and the solution that maximizes utility.
<!----><!----><!---->
Long answer, and a tad late, but there it is!
<!----><!---->
Cheers –
<!----><!---->Rob
Thanks for taking the time, great to get your perspective. And thanks for sending your folks to Denver here shortly; can't wait.CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Thanks for the explanations and descriptions, Rob!
Now, Charlie said: "thanks for sending your folks to Denver here shortly; can't wait." Are your folks coming to the Portland show? I just realized I'm assuming they are, but I'd better find out for sure!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Well , we have had it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I note that Rob Lee has emphasised a point that seems to have been disregarded-namely that the focus of pressure should be at the tool edge and not much at all on the actual guide.
So it amuses me to post pics of this Stanley guide I got last century-definitely not intended to sustain heavyhandedpressureinthewrongplace.
The cat never fails to investigate anything unfamiliar broughtinto the house-or sniff a nice piece of Imbuia.Philip Marcou
Hi Jamie -
Yes - we'll be at the Portland show - and Vancouver/Surrey on the same weekend...
The Denver weekend we're actually at 4 shows at once... also Tampa, Toronto, and Moncton NB... a busy schedule!
Cheers -
Rob
"we're actually at 4 shows at once." Holy Cow!
I'm going to try and make it to Portland. Hubby is hunting that weekend, so it might be complicated, having no back-up at the store. Otherwise, I'll stop by Seattle in April. LV will be there, yes?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi -
Pretty sure we'll be in Seattle - but our schedule isn't booked that far in advance (other than Industrial/International shows... you can also see us in Germany!)...
You can always check here for show listings...
http://www.leevalley.com/home/Tradeshows.aspx?c=2
Cheers -
Rob
Ah, thanks for the link, Rob. Germany isn't on the itinerary for me this year. ;-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Will you be at Portland Show? I'm planning on going, just havn't decided which day(s). Love to talk shop over coffee/soda.
can contact me direct at [email protected]
Butch
LMAO....
aye Phillip... I'm sure there's a wee bit o Scots blood in ye, cos it sounds t me like yer wallet's as tight as a duck's arse... ;)
you might want to send this to your local dealer... an btw, you, like him can buy this online direct from Lee Valley... that's how I got mine 2 months before they were on sale here in the UK...
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1
As far as Tom's sharpening products... everybody has to start somewhere... baby steps are a good way to start....Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Yes Mike, you are a canny lad.
That new gauge certainly is seductive looking.Even though it has "Blade stop with DISCRETE positions for pre-set angles" I will stick to mine for the time being, which is infinetly adjustable, and the narrow wheel, which some claim to be disadvantageous, allows me to produce ####slightly crowned shape when required.Philip Marcou
I hear what you're saying re the wide roller... that's been a point of a lot of arguement on other forums for a whilw. There's some that add a turn or two if tape to the centre of the roller to help induce camber, although I've managed to use the jig unmodified to taper the likes of a jointer blade (where yer nae looking for heaps of camber)... I doubt there's ever going to be one single "be-all-and-end-all" jig that's all things to all people, and able to hone any angle on every blade with impunity...
There's room for your Elipse jig yet... ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Mike, judging by the good condition of the roller on my Eclipse, I think there is another life-time of work left in it-the thing is just too good and that's all there is to it;)
If were to acquire the Mk2, it is highly probable that I would consider whipping that wheel off and turning a slight bevel on either side to enable cambering -or may make my own wheel. But that's what I do-I am very pleased with my Veritas smoother and L/A jack after some mods-after all these things are important to life....Philip Marcou
after all these things are important to life....
yupp....... I know exactly what ya mean... ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
well drop down from Seattle to Woodland and use mine. I'll supply the beer and enough wood to make shavings and sawdust. By the way, how are you at throwing a ball? My Golden Retriever Woody feels it is his sole purpose in life to wear out as many arms as possible by chasing the ball all day.
butch
You have a Golden Retriever??? We must swap email! (Go away, hijacking police) Below is a pic of my Collie Boo with his absolute best friend Val (obsession doesn't quite cover his attitude toward round objects). They play 2 or 3 times/week.
Wow, you're way down south, aren't you? I might be able to talk hubby into taking a day trip, pack up all my sharpening, the dog, some food, and "drop by!" Nick loves Goldens and is supposed to get one from a friend in the next month or two. That's another story.......
View Imageforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
F.G. Wish I had room for a dog! DukeKenneth Duke Masters
The Bill of Rights
December 15 1791
NRA Endowment Member
LEAA Life Member
CRPA Member
Forest I had Goldens.. WONDERFUL Dogs.. Geeee I guess it is TRUE..
'The good die young' Wonderful dogs.. I will NOT get another.. I got to attached..
Forestgirl-certainly a fine looking beast-looks exactly as the best of them should.
However, I can't help asking :is he as useful a benchdog as mine was? ;)
P.S-thanks to your coaching I managed to scan this and then reduce to a reasonable size file without loss of clarity.Philip Marcou
Hey, Philip, great job on the photo-editing! And fine, handsome bench-dog! The only way Boo gets up there is if a racoon or the "shop squirrel" entices him, LOL! (We better stop with the dog stuff, or the Topic Police are going to pound our bee-hinds, LOL)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
OK, so they chase balls and look good on a bench. When you have a dog that digs holes for you, well then we can talk. ;-)
View Image
He didn't!! Reallllly?!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Ya just gotta know the trick! ;-)
Ed, how about this-the aunt of "benchdog"- on the word of command she would climb that tree and rescue the cat ;-)Philip Marcou
You guys are so funny! Gotta say, the kitty doesn't look thrilled with the idea of being "rescued" ROFL!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
How 'bout some of you go and visit My Pets. com, while the rest of us stay on topic and discuss honing guides? Either that, or I going to post my vacation pictures and make you look at 'em, lol!
my fault starting the pet pics....
your vacation pics? will there be small bikinis involved?
Lossing parts to guide? I've always found it satisfactory to put things away in drawer or cabinet, which we should all make with all the 'necessary' tools we have. Always need to buy tools so I can make a cabinet to put them in.
Woodland? Washington state...21 miles north of Oregon border. Live on mountain surrounded by trees and more trees. Even if someone cuts some trees down, there are still lots of trees. would be heaven if there were more bikinis.
Butch (originator of thread) gave us the go ahead -- even encouragement -- to go to the dogs! (see http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=25880.28 Did I wrongly assume kitties were OK too? ROFL! Hang in there, there's some woodworking if you look carefully.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Dang Nice Picture!
Sorry, I have to post a couple of woody the golden boy pictures too!His real name is "Woody Woody Woodenhead" by the way. Some *&*&^% tossed him out of his car in front of our place one night. A thoroughly beaten 4 month old puppy. Sadie the dog found him wimpering under an elderberry bush in the morning.
Wow, an all terrain all weather beast of magnificent proportions!Philip Marcou
I started this thread on the MkII guide and never expected such a lively discussion.
Now it's dog time too.
Woody is 18 months. Chasing the ball and going for rides in the jeep are his favorite pastimes. He esspecially loves going to the river to swim and chase his ball.
the cats are Thunder & Lightning. the three of them get along fine, as long as the cats don't lay with his ball. When they go to play with it, he runs over and grabs it as if to say "there is a limit to this friendship"
butch
Cool! We have permission to "go to the dogs"!!! Handsome, stately retriever you have there, Butch. I had to pass on the other photos -- Philip can talk to you about editing them, LOL. It'll be about 2 weeks before I get broadband here.
Boo the Collie doesn't have a clue about chasing and fetching balls, just not in those herding genes I guess. However! he does know that the ball is something his friend Val feels very passionate about, so he'll grab the ball and strut around with it, teasing the daylights out of Val. It's hysterical!
Thunder and Lightning. I love it! Saw a couple of kittens up for adoption last year, little black-and-white cuties. Their names were Ping and Pong. ROFL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
yes, should have edited them down....once i realized which version was attatched I couldn't figure out how to delete them and then put on ones of reasonable size. Sorta the opposite of woodworking....easy to plane off too much, but darn hard to put it back on, pics just the opposite for me....easy to put on, couldn't figure out how to take them off
butch
Butch, deleting attachments is easy-just click on "edit" under the message, and then click on "manage attachments", and carry on from there.Philip Marcou
Whoa! Which woodland are you talking about? The one just north of the people's republic of Davis?Even spookier: My golden boy is named "woody" too! I think he's a pure bred, but we got him as a second hand throwaway so I don't really know.
"people's republic of Davis" Too funny! I gradgiated from there, never heard it called that! Woodland used to be a pretty laid back place, bet it's really changed....
I think he was talking about Woodland, WA. It south of Seattle, kinda near the Oregon border.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Has had a few pure bred dogs and cats.. The 'muts' live longer.. Not to say either is better than the other...
Hey at least they're only trying to lure you into a $49 purchase. Your band saw catalog could easily cost me over $1K. :)
Slightly off-topic, but has anyone tried using a honing guide on a horizontal wheel?
I've just bought a Chinese-made dual setup with a slow-rotating horizontal stone (with drip-feed water) and the tool rest is a bit junky. The core machine seems OK, it certainly makes sharpening a breeze (and I've also sharpened up all my paint-scraper and lid-opening and chopping-up-bits-of-brass chisels as well).
So, what about using a honing guide running on the rotating stone? It would have to be on the left side (with the rotation 'going away) rather than the more conventional right side (into the rotation).
I have the earlier Veritas guide and sort of like it. Lots of my tools don't seem to fit very well.
Malcolm
There was in a recent FWW issue a review of guides for grinders. Don't remember exactly when and can't find it now but this is the kind of item that might adapt to your machine. Maybe someone else knows what issue it is in. KDMKenneth Duke Masters
The Bill of Rights
December 15 1791
NRA Endowment Member
LEAA Life Member
CRPA Member
Thanks Duke
If it's within the past couple of years I'll have it.
This may seem a strange thing for a one-time professional to admit, but I've never owned a powered grindstone! I've always sharpened by hand, on a variety of media, including diamond-impregnated steel plates, diamond in plastic, natural stones, honing paste on glass, scary sharp ... always using a honing guide, starting with a 1950s Stanley guide.
I just wish I'd spent the money years ago!
Malcolm
Malcolm: Which of those methods has been the most useful? I've mostly used my Tormek but have an assortment of other sharpening bits and pieces that I've only toyed with. Been using a leather strop with a stick of green compound from Lee Valley, seems to keep the edge at max between sharpening. DukeKenneth Duke Masters
The Bill of Rights
December 15 1791
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> Which of those methods has been the most useful? <
Hard to say! recently I've tended to pull out the big diamond-impregnated slabs - whatever's fastest.
I always thought that people obsess too much about sharpening - exact angles, mirror-finish, micro-bevels ... OK if you prefer sharpening to woodworking, but I reckon I can get a parfectly good finish with a quick and dirty medium/coarse diamond.
Now, of course, I'm using my new Chinese knock-off no-name 'Tormek', and just wishing I'd done so years ago!
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
And if anyone from LV reads this thread they will increase the price of the guide even more they did in the new catalogue!
Forestgirl,
The MK II is really great, well worth the money. The MK II provides repeatabilty that the MK I lacked.
Best of Luck
Methinks it would look good under the Christmas tree! Reading the comments in this thread has been very educational.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
YOU HAD TO BRING THIS UP! I bought the older one and a week after that I saw the NEW one,, Story of my life!
I have had very hard time keeping the chisel at right angles to the jig. When I examined the bearing surfaces on the clamping mechanism, I discovered that the surface on the main part of the jig was hollow with very little bearing surface. To compound the problem, the powder coating was very smooth and as a result there was very little friction to hold the chisel in place. I emailed Veritas for help but to no avail. Finally, I resonted to filling the voids with epoxy and sanding the powder coating off of the top and bottom bearing surfaces. This increased the amount of bearing surface but the chisel still tends to pivot. In desparation, I plan to glue fine sandpaper to each surface and see if that helps.
I too have been in touch with LV about the new jig not holding chisels very well (see my former posts). They thanked me and said they would look into the situation. I tried putting thin sheet rubber on the lower jaw, but it actually was worse than with just the bare powdercoat. This is the best plane iron honing guide out there, but is not the answer for your chisels under 1". I think you could break the zinc casting trying to get the jaws tight enough on a bevel-edge chisel. I also told them that the bare steel parts should be stainless, since many of us are wet sharpening these days. I think they probably were running into cost problems and cut back the quality slightly to stay under $50.00.
When I was at Lie-Nielsen recently, I saw a honing guide that they had machined. It was an Eclipse design, but high quality materials. I'm not suggesting that this was a production prototype, but LN could sell some well-made guides if they put their minds and quality to the task.
Quartersawn,
I agree with your assessment. I have tightened the clamb as much as I can by hand but it didn't hold the chisel secure. I am afraid to use pliers for fear it will break the casting.
I use the eclipse honing guide for my plane irons. I constructed a simple jig that I use to set the projection of the blade and thus the sharpening angle and it works flawlessly.
With all of the high quality edge tools that Lie-Nielsen manufactures it only makes sense to supply a sharpening guide that is designed and manufactured to the same high standards.
My impression of Veritas is that they produce a large number of "innovative new designs" in the hopes that they will hit a winner once and a while. I seriously doubt that they will make any changes to this product in the foreseeable future.
Here are a couple of shots of my version of Deneb Puchalski's setup jig for use with the Eclipse style honing jig. Works with the Veritas, too, so I've included a shot of that also. Angles, with the Eclipse, anyway, are determined by length of protrusion, so I just set up a new stop block for each angle desired. One more thing: I glued a lip onto the bottom of the entire jigboard so that I can press the blade edge against the block firmly and the jigboard stays put because the lip is against the edge of the bench.
Hope this clarifies matters.
Charlie
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Ok; so where can I see the posts about YOUR method?
Charlie
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Yeah, I hear that. Deneb pointed out that he prefers to sharpen free-hand, but that he has to teach the Eclipse route b/c the learning curve for free-hand is apparently to steep. Still, it works well for me. I'm not really proud of it either, but it doesn't seem to slow me down much. I am moving toward free-hand for chisels, as best I'm able; and I agree with your assessment of the two jigs; Eclipse for plane irons, Veritas for chisels, but at the risk of drifting out of square.
Charlie
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
OK, thanks. Now I don't mean to be dense, but I'm not sure I get the advantage. It seems at first glance that the Eclipse is now at risk for slipping, just like the Veritas, and the Veritas still seems vunerable; now, the magnets: those are for holding the blade in place while you set the clamps?
Feel free to elaborate; I'm intrigued, but I don't get it yet...
Charlie
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
OK, thanks, I'm clearer, but still have questions. What is the advantage of getting the roller out from under the blade? And, what prevents slippng, like the Veritas? The main advantage I see to the Eclipse is that the blade is mechanically trapped, not clamped.
Charlie
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Edited 10/5/2005 11:56 am ET by CharlieD
Metod , I am way behind here: I am still trying to understand why you are unable to use the eclipse for Japanese chisels-which eclipse do you have-the old, left, or the newer, right?
I see the plan behind your ali-retrofit devices, but a disadvantage is that one can't get at the back of the chisel/iron to de-burr. I like to hone then work the back a few times: easily done with the eclipse.
In fact everything is easy with it-merely clasp in left hand, slap in the iron/chisel with right to estimated required projection slight tighten in almost the same motion whilst reaching for steel rule (or your projection setter), measure/confirm correct projection quick finger tighten (IS sufficient) and go for it.Very simple and effective as it should be.
I don't see the need to be envious of people who prefer not to use a honing guide. Many a stiff upper lipped old bugger has seen the light, saying that time IS saved , the bevel(s) stay flat and square, the angle consistent, terrifying sharpness achieved- all done while dreaming of the Arms of Mary....
Metod,
Don't mean to be argumentative and I present this with all due respect, but I would like to present a different viewpoint to this:
>That's why I began looking for an alternative. I would not have to, if I developed better free-hand honing skills. Not really proud of it. It looks that I am not the only one. It is probably a fairly common fate with us hobbyists, who do not hone frequently.
Remembering various comments from the pros on this forum, they are the ones who do not need the guides. They also do not 'need' the many gizmos that we 'lesser' folks do. Just a tinge of envy of their skills and cleverness.<
I'm a hobbiest/amatuer and I have no desire whatsoever to be a "pro" (the few times I've gotten paid for doing woodworking, it has sucked the "fun factor" right out of the whole process) but I hone my tools frequently and rarely use a honing guide because it is simply too much trouble to fool with. I generally hone the tools I'm going to use at the beginning of the "day" or woodworking session, whatever. It doesn't take long because they're already sharp. I'm using more and more carving tools and those little guys generally don't fit in a honing guide anyway. Then, while I'm working, it's necessary to rehone, at times. Yesterday I was dimensioning some air-dried walnut (air-dried in a barn for about forty years, and full of unbelievable burl and swirling grain) that was unusually hard and difficult to plane. I was bringing the thickness down to 3/4" from just over 7/8." It was expedient to pop the blade out about every thirty minutes and touch up the sharpness. When I started planing again, I could immediately tell the difference. I was using one of my favorite planes, a "sweetheart" Bailey 5 1/2 with a "Hickory" iron from the nineteenth or early twentieth century. I don't know what kind of steel was used in "Hickory" irons but they weren't given that name for being soft, that's for sure. I used both a Black Arkansas stone and my leather strop to touch up the hone to razor sharp, mainly because those were extremely portable and I was working outside. Needless to say, a honing guide would have been too much trouble to fool with.
Your mileage may vary, but I think if you're really going to use hand tools a lot, you need for them to be razor sharp, you need to hone frequently, and you need to find a way to do it quickly and efficiently - aim for just a minute or three for each tool.
Good luck, Ed
Just ordered one. BUT...does anyone have a good method for sharpening the really narrow chisels. A 1/4" is tricky, but the 1/8" and 1/16" just don't work in any jig that I know of. I have honed my little ones by hand, but it is difficult to keep them precisely balanced.
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