Hi,
I have trying this out with my chisels and no matter what I have tried, it does not sharpen square. This is one of the primary reasons why I purchased this set but it does not seem to work for me.
I checked it against my square when locked in place and it appears that it just doesn’t sit perfectly square when tightened down. See picture.
Am I missing something with this guide?
Thanks
Replies
That looks like an Eclipse style honing guide, which grips from the sides of the chisel.
The Veritas clamps from above and below.
Perhaps a wider image would be helpful?
The Veritas does require careful setup to ensure absolutely square results, and there is a deplorable tendency for the squareness to be lost during use, but it's hard to blame it when it seems you have a different device?
It is the latest Veritas. This one:
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/guides/51868-veritas-mk-ii-deluxe-honing-guide-set?item=05M0920
It is the guide for the smaller blades. It has one tightening screw on one side. I have attached a second image of it in the angle jig. Even this has a small gap towards the top no matter how I install and tighten.
I have the older MKII and no problems.
I use the depth stop to guarantee squareness so reference off that.
Perhaps it is a bad one? Check there is no bad finish inside the grips perhaps?
The only things I can think of otherwise have already been mentioned below - the side bevels are compound so perhaps the side grip is not consistent?
Try placing the ruler from your try square into both guides and see if that is square. If the ruler is square but the chisel is not, then the problem is the chisel, not the guides. Perhaps, fore some reason, the sides of that chisel are not parallel.
I use the same guide and have excellent results. If it happens with all of your chisels I would take your chisels and the guide to your nearest Lee Valley and have one of their associates have a look. It's possible that the guide has a problem. If you ordered online, I'm sure Veritas stands behind their product. You just need to prove their product is faulty.
I'm not sure what you are trying to show with the first picture. If I what to check for square on a chisel edge I would hold my square against the side of the chisel.
Having used the Mk.II almost since they hit the market and including the more recently released narrow blade jig I will certainly attest to its superiority to just about any other jig on the market. I am not familiar with your chisels though and notice they hace a significant land on the side I am wondering if that is interfering with the way the narrow blade holder registers the blade. Since none of my chisels have side lands(a deal breaker for me) I looked at how the narrow blade jig registers the blade and I could see how those lands may impact it. My suggestion would be to try sharpening your chisels in the original manner, which worked just fine for me for many years and see if you get the results you expect.
This is a weakness in all top/bottom clamping guides. It may clamp up square, but the unit being honed moves a little once you get underway honing.
Get an Eclipse-style, or source an original. The original Eclipse is a bit more robust than the copies I've handled.
Often, simpler is better.
Having used an original Eclipse for years early in my woodworking days I will strongly disagree with you, while serviceable the Eclipse Gauge leaves a lot to be desired compared to the Mk.II and I would never contemplate going back.
I will add the Mk.II narrow blade accessory clamps the chisel exactly like the Eclipse without the limitations of the narrow wheel and the rocking it can induce. The wide stable roller of the Mk.II is vastly superior to the narrow one on the Eclipse.
I have used the jig shown with good luck. Check that the chisel is indeed straight and square. If it is, I think Veritas may owe you a new jig.
I would check the chisel first.
For something the be "square" it must have a good reference surface to register in the guide. If the chisel is "good" then check the guide to see if the clamping surfaces are clean.
I have also been using the MK2 for many, many years without issue. IMO it's by far the most accurate and easily repeatable system available.
EdWeber is right. The problem could well be chisel. Check something known to be square in the guide. That will tell you which is at fault.
I have the Mk.II and narrow/chisel head. I also have always had great results. I've been considering getting a side clamping jig for plane blades, but would still use my Mk.II for chisels.
I assume the problem is consistent across all your chisels? I ask because I have a 1" modern Stanley Sweetheart chisel. The side bevels were not ground symmetrical at the factory. It doesn't affect the function of chisel, but it drives me bonkers and makes me question the jig when I'm sharpening it.
I don't think I'm actually adding much here other than another vote for contacting Lee Valley.
You bring up a good point. It's not uncommon for some chisels to have unequally ground sides. I know I have some antiques that are not close to being symmetrical. This is where referencing off of the back is helpful to at least establish where the bevel should be.
Good luck getting it sorted out
Thanks for all the feedback and advice.
As suggested I checked with my square and had the same problem so I knew it wasn’t an issue with the chisels. Out of curiosity I used a vernier to check for parallel. Very small discrepancies, nothing that would throw it of like it currently is.
I then cleaned the clamp and that solved the problem! It now appears square In the guide. I will know for sure once I resharpen.
This was brand new before I used it for these chisels, so maybe there was a tiny shaving stuck there. I didn’t really see much when I cleaned it to be honest but something was affecting it.
As for the chisels, I bought the axemaster ones mentioned by Paul in this post.
https://paulsellers.com/2019/10/i-read-a-review/
Thanks
could you elaborate on how you cleaned the clamp? I have the Veritas mkII narrow blade setup, and having issues with the new area being honed; it's slightly skewed compared with the original ground face of the chisel. Much worse when I tried the 2 degree micro bevel. Also worse with a narrower 8mm router plane iron compared to a 1/2" bench chisel.
The jig is easy enough to set up, I can't see that I'm doing anything wrong. I'm using the registration attachment to set angle and check for squareness.
The two most noticeable things are that there is - to me - a surprising amount of slop in the roller (about 1/32" of play, which Veritas tells me is within tolerance), and also though the chisel is very secure side-to-side, there is a great deal of up and down movement possible even when tightly clamped. I.e. if you hold the guide and move the handle of the chisel it can move up and down in the jig.
Veritas sent me a new roller, same results as the original one that I received.
My MK II can't hold chisels square as well. Worked fine and then about a year in the jaws began to fail in holding narrow chisels square. Now, most anything I put in it comes out skewed. I don't trust it to hold anything now. I've seen similar complaints on YT. It's a problem for Veritas.
I had the whole MKII kit at one time, and had minor issues with keeping things square. It made no difference as far as chisel or plane iron function. I'll bet you don't push the chisel through the wood at a perfect 90° either. The only issues involved my OCD. FWIW I switched to the LN version in an effort to simplify my life. Mission accomplished. It holds everything square and is very repeatable so OCD is better now too.
ShopMan75 has a good test to see if it is the jig or not. If a known-square end of a steel rule lines up well you just need to reshape your chisel. If not I would contact Lee Valley; their customer service is legendary.
The lion's share of honing jig problems seem to be eventually revealed as 'death grip syndrome'. The guide is a guide. Use a controlling but light touch and let it guide you, not control you.
Even with everything well clamped at just the right angle you can still get a non-square end by applying unequal pressure to one side of the jig. I am probably not the only one here who does this to camber plane irons in the MK-II. I have the cambering roller but find I rarely use it anymore. I just apply specific pressure to each corner of the iron for the last few strokes.
On the MK2 you need to be careful to tighten both clamp screws evenly. When it's "tight" look to see if you can see light on either side, if so even out the pressure.
As far as cleaning the jig, take it apart and look for any foreign debris or poor casting that could misalign the chisel when mounted.
I had the Veritas sharpening jig as well as the Eclipse. As others have stated, the Veritas clamps from the top, so even if you tighten your chisel or plane blade really tight, they can move out of square. I sold my Veritas and bought the Lie-Nielsen side clamping guide. Yes, it's pricey, but works a hundred times better and the LN sharpening system allows for a wide variety of sharpening. I also made the angle guide that LN and others recommend. The combination makes sharpening so easy, and, allows for consistent results.
Watch the Bob Van Dyke sharpening videos on here. They are very helpful.
Appreciate all the responses. Thanx. I should have specified my problem concerns the MK II Narrow Blade attachment. 2 photos to illustrate the issue. First photo is a rear view of a 1" blade held in the correct position, everything is square. Notice the back of blade is resting flat across the support cross-member.
Second photo from same view is a bit exaggerated (it's a mock up) but is a clear example of the problem. At some point while sharpening the blade will drop on one side from the cross-member support. It's typically very slight but very much enough to skew the edge and the bevel. Blade goes out of square and re-setting mid sharp is impossible. Crank tightening the jaws is not a solution.
It's not the end of the world and edges will get sharp. My main issue is Veritas is big on "accurate and consistent" and that is why I paid top dollar. This issue started while the warranty was still in effect but it occurred sporadically and only on my narrowest chisels. I believed I was the problem.....needed to pay more attention when loading chisel, etc. My mistake.
It's been said that good tools last (anyone ever hear that?) When you pay good $$, they should. My MK II just may have been a dud. Veritas makes great high quality tools. In fact, I'm use their Side Clamping jig now. Now if that fails, and I'm not expecting it to, I retain the right to kick myself.
If you have a lot of material to remove, like changing honing angles, any honing jig can hone out of square and often will. They have to be perfect not to. None of them are. The best route is a simple Eclipse clone (side-clamping jig) -- you can put enough pressure on either side to bring the cutter back into square when it starts getting out of square.
Top-clamping jigs are notorious for letting the cutter or chisel slip just enough to cause the problem you're having. Using oilstones makes it worse.
Beware the brand loyalists who reflexively defend XYZ Company's offerings no matter what.
Simple is almost always better.
I had same issue and finally figured out that the issue is that the chisel slips in the guide even if you tighten the heck out of the knurled knobs. (I have chisels with a trapezoidal top surface.) Honestly it seems a rare bad design from Veritas. Simpler guides seem to register off and clamp onto the sides so you're square and non slipping by design.
Nothing beats a well machined side clamp, one with separate locations for chisels & for plane blades. I retired my MK II in favor of the Sand Pebble side clamp (https://www.amazon.com/Sharp-Pebble-Honing-Guide-Sharpening/dp/B09BPSRHWP?ref_=ast_sto_dp) and a home built angle gauge. It holds chisels from 1/4" to blades to 5" secure and square. I'm sure the Veritas does as well, and I'm positive the LN does all that and much more. For $45, $50, $150+ respectively, I'm happy with my choice.
Anyone want to buy a Veritas MK II?
I kicked my MK II to the curb many years ago. Way to finicky. I love the LN side guide.
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