To start off with I have to say that I pretty much hate sharpening; I also don’t like lapping the soles of new or old planes, if a chisel gets a nick in it then the thought of how long it’s going to take me to get the nick out makes it almost worth throwing the damn thing out.
So, awhile back I noticed Veritas had this new powered sandpaper based sharpening system. I have been using sandpaper on a granite stone for quite awhile and this just seemed to be a way of speeding up the process. And since a few hundred bucks just came my way that I didn’t expect I bought it!
And I am very, very, very happy I did.
I set it up very quickly and read some of the extremely complete instructions and was off to the races on plane blades, chisels, spokeshave blades etc…
It was everything I hoped for, which is to say it was fast and easy and hard to screw up.
They supply about 4 grits with it but I added a few more micron grit papers
that Lee Valley supplies elsewhere in their catalog.
5 out of 5 stars on my scale. I am grateful that Veritas exists, they really know how to think through the function of a tool and make it better than it ever has been before. They did it again with this system.
I know I probably sound like I’m working for them but I’m just a woodbutcher in Baltimore who appreciates a beautifully thought out tool design.
Tom
Replies
veritas is made by Lee Valley . the companies catalogues are to die for due to their photography (like nathional geo) and common sense descriptions I only became aware of this company 2 years ago and since have done several m of business with them with never a problem. Their guarantee has to be the best I have ever ran accross( three months to try it out & if you don't want it take or send it back , they pay the shipping & you get your money back no hassle) A visit to their head office , store , mfg plant is like going to a place of reverance (located in Ottawa Can) . Being in business we deal with many suppliers and I have found them to be the best for their attitude , knowledge , presentation of products comfortable chairs to sit in if you want to read their books etc. In closing my only complaint with them is that I have became addicted to their store (35 mile drive).
Foxfire,
I'm jealous, you've been to the store!
I didn't even know they had a store that could be visited.
And the bummer is that I was just vacationing in Muskoka and could
have hopped over there.
Ah well next time, I have lots of relatives in Canada so I'll be back.
It would be very interesting to hear about the tool designers who work
at Veritas, there are some very smart people working there.
It's great buying tools from them as I know with a certainty that I'll enjoy the
tool and at the same time helping them to keep going and design more wonderful tools in the future.
Have a good weekend!
Tom
if you have questions on veritas tools ask onthis location as robin lee the president monitors this site I have noticed at different times. How he finds the time god only knows.
Ok, I will.
Robin Lee if you read this would you consider telling about the Veritas operation? Perhaps who are some of the wonderful designers behind the scenes?
Thanks,
Tom
Have done more sharpening of my hand tools.
The planes, even some old no name ones performed beautifully after sharpening and was able to remove nicks very quickly since the platters are easy to switch. With a nicked blade I started with a 100 grit platter to remove the damaged area. Then moved through the finer grits to a mirror finish in very little time.
Worked on some chisels today and tried one out on very dry end grain cherry. Very easy to produce fine shavings on the end grain.
Have also used the system to lap plane soles.
Tom
IronDog,
Glad to hear you're so pleased with the results. I have a few questions:
Is the abrasive adhesive-backed?
If so, how easy is it to remove and re-apply when you want to change grits?
The reason I ask is because I wasn't happy with the results I got when I used adhesive-backed abrasive on a random orbit sander, largely because I wanted to be able to change grits long before each disk wore out.
Thanks,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Switching grits is really easy as you just change the platter.
Each platter will hold one grit per side.
The finest grit they sell is 1200 but I put some even finer
15 and 5 micron PSA sandpaper on another platter.
Another nice touch is that there are two platter thicknesses.
4mm and 3mm. Switching from the 4mm to the 3mm automatically
makes a micro bevel as you sharpen. Like I said these people are smart!
Tom
I used to laugh at people I thought were way too obsessed with shapening until I got a cheap two sided Japanese waterstone and gave my chisels a mirror edge, oh boy do they cut!
Lee Valley certainly turns out some wonderful stuff and has a level of service that can't be beat.
Dog,
Thanks. Very informative!-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Tom,
Glad to know that the Veritas MK II works great, have been eyeing one up. Most of anything I have bought from Lee Valley has been great.
Best of luck and happy sharpening.
Hi Tom -
For a quick view of our manufacturing operation, you can follow this link:
http://www.leevalley.com/home/veritasTourIndex.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2
Once we get our "opt-in" email newsletters in place (in a few weeks time) we'll be producing articles and profiles of various aspects of the company.
If you want a "peek" at a product designer - look at the photo of the turner's smock in the catalog (not the website)...thats the chief designer for the plane line....
Cheers -
Rob Lee
Mr. Lee,
It is a pleasure to make your aquaintance, you must be very proud
to have created such great companies in Lee Valley and Veritas.
Thank you for the link to the manufacturing and quality control images,
it will take a while to look through them all.
Next time I'm up in Muskoka I hope to swing by Ottawa to see the store.
Regards,
Tom
Rob, is there anything you can add about the differences between the Veritas machine and the Lap-sharp? I've looked at both web sites but am not familiar with either machine.
Hi Mark -
I've neither seen nor used the Lap-sharp, so can't comment on it specifically.
My generic comments would be that really only a consumer can determine the utility/value of a given solution to themselves.
For this type of power sharpener - it's not the machine that produces the finish, it's the abrasive. If the platter is flat, and the motor powerful enough - an old record player would do as well as either system...it just might not be as usable.
Speed of rotation isn't really a performance factor here - it's mostly a design parameter.... a slower speed means you need finer grits, but can tolerate a plate less true...a higher speed stresses your tolerances more...
As for physical construction - I'd have to see under the covers....
Maybe not much help - but I don't want to speculate...
Cheers -
Rob
PS - I have a real hard time accessing this BB - I time out often....anyone else have that problem??? Tried emailing the webmaster - but no reply....
Rob,
Try these links if you're having problems.
Tom
[email protected]
SYSOP
[email protected]
There is one other factor that Mr. Lee didn't mention. The claim is that slower speeds create less heat, reducing the danger of permanently damaging the blade.
Actually the extensive manual that comes with the MK II speaks about that issue. They recommend applying the blade being sharpened for about 4 secs. at a time, then lift it up and set it back down again with a brief pause for cooling. Since I have used the tool I can say that it is not something that concerned me in use. I think at most one would be concerned with overheating the very tip of a blade with a power sharpening system.
But that should not be a concern with common sense usage.
Tom
I would think these machines would be very simple. If the tool rest is firmly held and accurate and the table is flat the thing should work and there shouldn't be any difference in the results between two machines.
Then it comes down to things like ease of use. Here are a couple of things that look nice about the LV version:
--- It looks as if the blade is held in a contraption that lifts off the fixed tool rest. That would allow you to gently press down first on one side and then on the other of a smoothing plane blade, thereby creating a slight radius. For that matter, it would allow you to put a big radius on a scrub plan blade. Good concept.
--- Making the "finish" table slightly thinner to increase the angle and create a micro-bevel is one of those simple ideas that seems genius.
It doesn't strike me that the speed should be an issue. If the speed at the outside perimeter is, say, 750 rpm then the speed at the point where you're actually sharpening is lower and in any case well within the "safe" range for woodworking tools.
I used to use the honing guides for chisels and plane blades and then "graduated" to doing it by hand because it's quicker and I get a slightly sharper tool for some reason. But if the LV tool can make the blades just as sharp and do it faster, which seems very possible, I'd go for it. That's the whole point of the exercise as far as I'm concerned.
Hey Rob, are you guys going to be at the Woodworks show in Philadelphia on Nov 5-7? Would you by any chance have one of those machines to look at?
Rob, I posted a reponse to "all" that I probably should have posted to you. Any answers on the Nov 5-7 show?
I'm glad to hear the system works. But if you want to see another sandpaper system to die for, check out the LapSharp. Pricecy indeed.
I have the LapSharp system from Wood Artistry http://www.woodartistry.com/Products-LapSharp200.htm and if you can afford the $700 entry fee you'll never go back.
I get lapped chisel and plane backs so flat and polished I can see the craters on the moon reflected from the back side of a 1" Sorby chisel.
A friend of mine has the Veritas and likes it, but wishes he had waited to see the LapSharp.
_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Edited 9/28/2004 2:32 pm ET by MICHAELP
Michael:
One feature of the Veritas system is a guide for setting the angle. Does the Lapsharp have such as feature?
BTW: Are you a member of the Bay Area woodworkers association?
Yes. There is a template for several angles and then a clamp for the chisel/blade to use as a guide along the tool rest.
Very accurate._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Michael,
Ok I will bite, what about the LapSharp makes it so much ($$$) better than the Veritas product?
It is slow speed, < 200 RPM.
The disk rotation is reversible.
It has a foot switch controlling the start of the disk meaning the blade can be placed on the disk and aligned before the grinding/polishing begins. (Controls rocking much better!)
I am not an ace when it comes to sharpening tools, neither is my friend with the Veritas. But there is a night and day difference in a finished chisel between my chisels done on the LapSharp and my friends chisels done on the Veritas, and his chisels are certainly very usable.
Is there $400 difference worth between the LapSharp and Veritas? Who knows - but I like the way it sharpens my chisels and plane blades. _________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
I saw how nice the sharpening system concept was, but, unlike you, I did not come by the readily spendable cash. At the time, I felt that it was a little pricey and decided to build my own. (Since that time, I got to see the machine up close at the IWF in Atlanta, and it is a much heavier looking machine when you can see it in person).
The home build one I made is not quite as production ready as the Veritas. I am using a lazy susan to support the platter. The Veritas machine appears to use a long vertical shaft supported by two bearings driven by a belt to a 1/4 hp motor.
My home built unit works very well, however, so I can imagine how very well the Veritas unit works.
Eric, ( With side note to Rob Lee )
That is really intrepid of you to build your own!
It is a wonderful tool and I wholly recommend it as well worth the dough.
I think you are right about the photograph in the catalog not doing justice to the substantial nature of the machine. It comes off looking kind of dinky ( Rob Lee take note! ) and there is no real scale in the photo to show it's size or weight.
It took me some time looking at it until I realized that the disk is 8" across and set off to one side of the machine so the whole unit is about a foot wide and a foot tall roughly. Not sure what the weight is but it is heavy enough to be quite stable. As with all Veritas tools, there is no scrimping on quality.
Tom
IronDog-
A general question about the Veritas or any flat-disc sharpening system: Does the fact that the rate of abrasion is faster toward the outside of the disc cause any problems?
Consider sharpening a plane iron. I guess if the tool is locked in a fixed position, the outside portion will wear away as much as it's going to and will just sit there while the portion toward the disc center catches up. But if the tool can be depressed toward the disc, then it seems to me there's a potential for getting a skewed (or some other misbegotten) grind.
I find that my Veritas knock-off has no real problems in this way. I just keep moving the iron (mounted to the clamping mechanism) across the length of the bar in order to even out the peripheral speed that each part of the blade sees. This way the grinding action does not occur in the same direction either. The same, of course, would apply to the "real thing".
It's an interesting question but I certainly am not smart enough to answer it.
Probably the Veritas designers could or Rob Lee.
Of my short time using the tool I have not noticed any problem.
Tom
hi all, i realize that this thread is quite old at this point, but i am seriously considering purchasing the lv system but i have exactly this concern. i was wondering whether lv ever provided a good answer to this question. absent that, can anyone vouch for the fact that in practice with plane blades up to say 2.5 inches in width, this theoretical problem does not present itself?
last, if anyone has any additional info/experience comparing the two systems, i'd love to hear it. many thanks in advance, tony.
I did have the LV product and the problem was very noticeable and real to me. Yes, you could try to deal with it by pressing harder on the inside edge and/or alternative sides of the spinning disc, but this led to imprecise and non-repeatable results, not to mention a plane blade that was a bit wavy across its width. Personally, I wouldn't buy this or any other similar system.
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