I would like to hear comments from folk who have one of these inserts from Veritas. If possible , how does it measure up to the Stanley #112 scraper plane.
I have neither, since my standard of planing in general is excellent, but feel that I could get the insert in order to reduce the size of my Bailey fleet, or in the event of unfavourable comments, I may be forced to get the full-on Veritas scraper plane , so that my tool cabinet can look better 😉 (;
Philip Marcou
Replies
don't waste your time or money.
Probably the only Veritas tool I've ever regretted.
Buy their cabinet scraper instead. Or the scraper plane if you have the money. But avoid this thing.
Mine is missing a part ro two, otherwise, I'd give it to ya.
The older I get, the better I was....
Thanks for that. Could you tell me what was wrong with the thing?Philip Marcou
Garbage. Threw it away. My teeth still chatter from it.
I do think LV generally offers the best combination of price and quality out there, even though many of the things they offer can be found in better quality elsewhere. I personally think their planes are a great value, but I bought Lie-Nielsen because they appeal to me on other levels.
A chattering failure, even LV bombs out sometimes .Their lathe was another. Stick with a Stanley 112
My Veritas scraping plane works gloriously, recommend it highly. Note, however, tha tthe protrusion from the base is quite tiny; your work must be dead flat before you can scrape effisiently with this tool.
Charlie
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Thanks for that Charlie. I have yet to see one of these in the flesh, so when I do I will bear what you say in mind. I do find that all too often "new" tools are not given a fair go- people just expect them to be perfect at the outset, and condemn them when they are not-for the want of a little tweak.I am actually thinking of ordering one of these pending becoming rich enough to get a Veritas .Philip Marcou
Philip,
I had one of these once - it chattered badly, especially on machine marks.
Stick with a card scraper or otherwise.
eddie
Eddie, did you have the thicker blade in it? Or did it chatter with any blade? Chattering seems like something one can tweak away.What size plane did you put it into?Philip Marcou
Hullo Philip,
I had a thinner blade in it, in a No4 plane, from memory (2001?).
As you know, I'm a tradie so I had a reasonable burr on the blade, taking a fine shaving.
It just chattered on machine marks (jarrah) I've still got the thing thrown somewhere in the back of a cupboard.
Cheers,
eddie
Eddie, was your scraping plane a Veritas? Mine is highly adjustable, and can quickly and easily be adjusted to avoid the chatter; works like a charm as is, but you can also get an outrageously thick blade from them for that purpose.CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Edited 9/25/2005 9:52 am ET by CharlieD
Charlie, please confirm that you are referring to the INSERT scraper made by Veritas-the mechanism that can be fitted to ordinary planes.Philip Marcou
NO. I'm referring to the actual Veritas scraping plane, for about $130. I have no clue about the insert, sorry for any confusion.CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Philip,
Just curious, have you played with back bevels on your plane irons?
I have never had the need for a scraping plane, even with highly figured wood, using the recommendations on the LV site.
Edited 9/25/2005 11:41 am ET by Willie
Yes Willie, I have experimented with back bevels and various angles. I have had success-but only with the not so hard timbers, and I have only used "ordinary" planes. When it comes to Wenge or Jatoba I use the card scraper-which is fine but I like to have as many options as possible.
Ofcourse I try to minimise the tear-out at source, but every now and again it-is unavoidable.Philip Marcou
The only Veritas tool I have ever trashed -- actually one of the ONLY tools I have ever trashed. Save your money.
Thanks folks-looks like a non swimmer-I'll stay away from it unless I come across an abandoned one , then I might see if it is worth ####tweak.Philip Marcou
Well, I was unable to stay away from the Veritas scraper insert, and ordered one from Canada.
I tested it on three timbers, with grain "cut up rough" (except for the Dalbergia Melonoxcylon).I used the thicker blade, and filed my version of the angle I wanted on the other end, turned a burr and went for it.(I put an angle of about 60*, rather than the factory angle of 45*)
The three timbers were Jatoba, Wenge and Dalbergia.
Result-BIG smile. No chatters repeat no chatters and very controllable shavings-did plenty of scraping with no noticeable reduction in performance. Granted , it will not take off huge shavings like a solid power hacksaw type scraper can, or even a normal cabinet card scraper can-but I like the thing -a pleasure to use.
Always was embarrassed by the size of my Bailey/Record fleet-now reduced by 1.
Ah-that is the wrong attachment-and it won't go away-so will post the correct picture separately.
Philip MarcouEdited 10/6/2005 4:47 am ET by philip
Edited 10/6/2005 4:49 am ET by philip
Pictures of scraping with Veritas scraper insert.
The brass item is a burnisher/ticketer I made using a needle from a roller bearing-very effective.Philip Marcou
Hi, Philip,
Glad to hear you conquered the scraper. I am a rookie at this - I always use a card scraper, burn my thumbs and curse. Eventually I get so fed up, that I give up on it and use a sander.
I am tempted to try the Lie Neilson scraper plane, but it's a lot of money if it dosn't work. I have a Stanley 80, and although I can get it working, I don't find it works as well as a card scraper.
Got any suggestions?
Ozzy
Ozzy, I tell you I am at a total loss trying to understand why that insert scraper is so vilified.I merely read all instructions carefully, studied the way the thing was made, changed the angle slightly on the thicker blade supplied, and have had a smile on face ever since.
As for your situation-play around with your card scrapers some more. Go over the way you prepare them-it is no big deal but if you are doing something wrong they are very frustrating things.If you can get a shaving after you have filed and then polished on a fine stone/diamond plate you are on the way. The burnisher does the rest. That burnisher I made works well and is easy to use.
I entirely agree with you on the Stanley #80-not as versatile as a card scraper-but at least thumbs can't go up in smoke. The #81 is less versatile than the #80.
I am positive the scraper planes made by both Veritas and L/N work like a dream-I don't have one yet because here I am still working on the means to have enough pocket money to buy one-but one good order or sale will do it...Philip Marcou
Hey Philip,
Got a sort of philosophical question for for about the Stanley #80. I don't mean to hijack the thread but the original subject has sort of played out,... Maybe some other longtime shop folks like John W will chime in as well.
Does the bottom of the Stanley #80 need to be flat?
Background is that I have one and I been using it very effectively to smooth up raised panels made of hardwoods (ash, air-dried walnut, pecan, etc) It is working very well, easy to sharpen , easy to roll the burr, and it can "fix" some tearout or planing mistakes that I made. I'm getting feathery, sort-of-lace-like sheet shavings. I was noticing the other day that the bottom is nowhere near flat. I guess the four corners of the tool are making contact with the workpiece, the center of the sole is sort of concave, and the bowed-out blade is sort of "floating" along in the grain of the workpiece, cutting. Should I care? Should I try to flatten the bottom like a plane?
It's probably a trivial question but I'm just curious about this. It's probably one of those questions where the answer is contained in the question - some thing to the effect of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" but I'm thinking of making some shopmade cabinet scrapers that do what the #80 does and just curious as to what people thought.
Ed, the saying "if it ain't broke..." had gone through my mind beforeI came to in your message. Sounds like it is working fine, and I wouldn't bother to flatten it , unless I felt it could be made to work even better.To be honest, I don't lose any sleep over this question of flat bottoms-the rule is I don't want to see too much light under the straight edge, and preferably none around the mouth area. I have a sort of test guage-a strip of steel shim material which is onetenthou"-if it can be pulled out from under the soul with no feeling of resistance then I may do something.It is on a par with the mythology surrounding Scarey sharp (Neurotic sharp in my mind) and a line has to be drawn at some stage.However it is all fun and I note that the most interesting civilsations are rich in Mythology.Philip Marcou
Hi all (and Phillip),
Phillip wrote:
[..snip..]"I have a sort of test guage-a strip of steel shim material which is onetenthou"-if it can be pulled out from under the soul with no feeling of resistance then I may do something.It is on a par with the mythology surrounding Scarey sharp (Neurotic sharp in my mind) and a line has to be drawn at some stage. [..snip..]
I'm "sure" that you mean that the strip is one thousandth (of an inch) and not onetenthou (by which I assume that you mean one ten thousandth of an inch?/!) ... if not, Holy Smokes dude- you are WAY beyond anyone in woodworking that I have ever come across!!!. Heck- that FAR exceeds even Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen's standards!
Not a flame, perhaps just a request for clarification maybe?!
-Peter T.
Hi Peter, you are quite correct-a discrepancy* crept in there, due to me thinking of metric and imperial at the same time.In fact, my strip of shim stock is 1/100 of a millimeter, or about .4 thou.-so the slightest resistance felt is more than satisfactory:-)
If it just breezes through, then I may hold a straight edge to it, and even then if there is no light around the mouth area and some light in other areas I'm not really going to bother at all-unless I have just spent a fortune on one of "those" planes. If I am not mistaken, Veritas are supposed to be within 1.5 thou, or about .04 mm
*understatement(!)Philip Marcou
Philip,
Thanks for that. I have not seen either the Veritas or the Lie Neilson in the flesh, but I did see a Stanley (from which the Neilson is copied), and I would like to try one out. Maybe a woodworking show would be the best answer.
What sort of things do you make? Have you got any pictures? Stay in touch.
Ozzy
I tried one at a show last year and ended up buying it. Warning: L-N planes are addictive like cocaine. Use at your own risk. You won't be satisfied with just one.
Good to meet you, Quartersawn.
You could well be right - as a general rule of thumb, if something is expensive & high quality, I will almost certainly like it!
My problem is that my champagne tastes are supported by a beer budget!
Take care and stay in touch,
Ozzy
Hi Ozzy-you can get an idea of what I make from my web site http://www.collectablefurniture.co.nz.
Please note that I was referring to the scraper mechanism made by Veritas which one inserts into a normal plane body when I said I was and still am at a loss...
Philip Marcou
Wow, Philip, cool stuff! CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Very nice, too!
You obviously have a leaning towards military style furniture, what's the background to that?
Ozzy
This is a pretty old thread, but I came across it and thought I would post me experience with the scraper insert.
I bought it a few weeks ago, and I've used it several times on a number of different species of wood. So far, the experience has been very positive. Clean, sure cut without any significant chatter. It actually gives me the same quality cut I get from my Veritas scraper, which is nice.
I bought the thicker blade, as well, which I am hoping to test soon. So far, however, I've only used the lighter blade.
Excellent. Did you mount it in a #4 size? Even the thinner blade should work with insignificant chatter. I prefer the versatility of the ordinary hand held card scraper blade but there are times when one might prefer it to be carried in a plane body .Philip Marcou
Yes, I tried it on my #4 Stanley Contractor Grade, and was really pleasantly surprised. The very little chatter I did see disappeared completely when I skewed the plane body a few degrees to the right just like I naturally would. The only disadvantage I saw to skewing the plane body was that the scraper blade left a definite cut line at the trailing (i.e. left) edge of the skew. My guess is that I can take care of that problem with some creative sharpening. The weight of the plane body really seemed to help with the cut, too. For the moment, these seem to me to be the perks of using a scraper blade in a plane body: inertia, much finer control of the blade edge angle and a uniform depth of cut.One of these days soon I am planning to pick up the Anant Kamal #4 1/2 and #10 Bench Rabbet planes and try the heavier 2 3/8" blade in them. I am eager to see, for example, if the insert gives a decent edge cut on the rabbet plane so I can scrape into corners, etc.I will keep using it and post my future observations here.
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