Replies

1. 
   Bonka | Jan 25, 2004 02:41am | #1

   I have had a lot of trouble with that guide also.  After I get the chisel in at the right angle I use a small square to get it right.  One can also use a small piece of plywood and using a square mark a line on it.  Then put the guide with the chisel in it up to the plywood edge and move the chisel until it is square with the line. 

   If I had the talent to free hand sharpen I would. I have tried over and over and it is a whole new angle each time.  With the V. guide one can turn the little cam and get a micro bevel which shortens honing time.  I have switched to using 3M paper that is as fine as an 8000 water stone and I don't have to worry about flattening the stone or the wear the roller on the guide leaves.

   Also put your fingers on the blade and don't press on the guide this will help keep things lined up.

   Jerry

2. 
   bjpearce | Jan 25, 2004 03:00am | #2

   q-sawn,

   I suspect that the slight play between the wheel and it's axle may have something to do with the slight angle change.

   Ben

3. 
   stancalow | Jan 25, 2004 05:09am | #3

   q-sawn

   I found I had better, faster results when I used one finger to apply more pressure to the front of the chisel close to the edge.

4. 
   VeniciaL | Jan 25, 2004 06:25am | #4

   g-sawn,

   I have the same problem with that guide. I really don't understand how so many people seem to like it. It's hard to get the blade or iron square and it invariably slips when I use it also.

   I much prefer the Eclipse "vise" type of guide. I won't get into the discussion of hand vs guide honing. I am very capable of doing it very well freehand, and I find using a guide superior for repeatability of the angle. I use the guide all the time.

   In the June 2002 issue of FWW (No. 156) there is a description of a "shop-built sharpening carriage" in the Methods of Work section. It's a good design as is and could be modified for a number of different needs.

   VL

1. 
   jako17 | Jan 26, 2004 04:55pm | #15

   Hi Venicia ,  I bought a Veritas guide many years ago when they first came out.A little while afterwards I got a high friction rubber pad in the mail from Lee Valley and instructions on installation, unsolicited!These admitted the problems of slippage and offered this pad as a solution.I have found that it works.Perhaps a note to Rob will solve the problem!

5. 
   BG | Jan 25, 2004 03:12pm | #5

   Q,

   I know your primarily asking about honing guides...but it seems to me you might be using them too much.  The objective it to get the blade sharper....and with  polishing, that means removing a tiny wire that is created with use.  Your 6000 waterstone will do that just fine....but I've been amazed by stroping after the waterstone....keeps on getting sharper and sharper.....and I do it the way the barber does...whack it a few times on each side. ...not worry about the angles....
1. 
   watkinsjd | Jan 26, 2004 12:12am | #6

   My Veritas jig came with a self adhesive backed rubber piece that I stuck to the flat surface opposite the screw.  This seems to hold every thing in place pretty well. Did those of you who have problems get the rubber piece too?

1. 
   VeniciaL | Jan 26, 2004 03:03am | #9

   Dr Watson,

   My Veritas guide came with no rubber piece.

   VL

1. 
   watkinsjd | Jan 26, 2004 07:57am | #11

   Based on my experience with Lee Valley, and with the posts I have seen here, if you contact them about your problem they will fix it. Their customer service is exceptional.

   In my not so humble opinion - Your first contact should always be the vendor you bought it from.  If given the opportunity, they should fix it.  If they don't, then bring it to a forum like this, but only after you have given them the chance to make things right. Otherwise, some inadvertent mistake could cause harm to an otherwise excellent reputation.  If they don't take care of it, roast them!

1. 
   VeniciaL | Jan 26, 2004 08:26am | #12

   Dr Watson,

   Thanks. I really don't feel that constrained not to have the rubber piece. I bought the guide at least 10 years ago and I doubt they still have a record of the sale. Maybe they didn't offer the rubber pad then.

   I only wanted to clarify that i don't have or use the backing pad, having expressed my disatisfaction with the guide. If others have that rubber pad, and that solves the problem, that's good. However, there is still no straightforward way to achieve squareness on the Veritas device. That property is not built into its design.

   VL

2. 
   gecko | Jan 26, 2004 05:42am | #10

   mine came with the rubber pad and i find the system to be very good.

   Custom Cabinetry and Furniture

   http://www.BartlettWoodworking.com

    

3. 
   sailalex | Jan 26, 2004 05:52pm | #16

   I have the Veritas with the pad and while it creates greater friction in holding the chisel/blade I don't find it helps that much with the squareness issue. With a long chisel, it doesn't take much to get it out of square; you just have to keep checking it every few passes. 

6. 
   wop | Jan 26, 2004 01:53am | #7

      If you want a honing guide that works like a dream for holding square and flat there is one made by Richard Kell in blyth england that is great even with jap chisels. Dieter schmid in Berlin sells it also Garrett Wade in new york and a few other retailers. Have a look at it.

                                                         Philip

1. 
   VeniciaL | Jan 26, 2004 03:02am | #8

   wop,

   That's an interesting design:

   http://www.fine-tools.com/hilf.htm

   But at Euro 44.50 a bit expensive. Garrett Wade still has the clamping guide (originally called the "Eclipse") at $10.95.

   VL

7. 
   djcolorado | Jan 26, 2004 09:40am | #13

   The Veritas is the second honing guide I bought.  Unfortunately I can't remember the manufacturer of the first, but is gunmetal gray and uses a thumbscrew to close the sides of the guide on the chisle or iron that is being worked.  I use it for my chisles and larger irons.  Unfortunately it doesn't accomodate really short irons nor does it work for skew chisles.  The Veritas works very well for both, though I do square the iron  when I use it.  The net, both have pluses and minuses and I am glad I have both.

8. 
   roblee | Jan 26, 2004 04:19pm | #14

   Hi -

   To save a bit of time, I'm re-posting a reply I made a while ago, on another bulletin board. Let me also say, that if you're not happy with a product you buy from us - just return it... we'll refund/replace it.

   There's currently no honing guide on the market which will handle all of the tools found in most shops - nor is there likely to be...the variability in tools is just too great. Angles, widths, thicknesses, tapers, skews can all vary widely.

   With any guide - technique will be just as important as the inherent accuracy of the jig. It's not difficult to sharpen +- a few degrees of square by varying how you use a jig.

   Repost follows...

   Cheers -

   Rob Lee

   Lee Valley/Veritas

   I've used that guide for more than 15 years, and have few issues with it - and maintaining the squareness isn't one.

   One of the best (and worst) things to happen in the woodworking industry over the past 20 years, has been the general increase in availability (and the decrease in price) of accurate measuring tools - primarily as a result of increased trade with China. 20 years ago, few woodworkers would have had a micrometer, dial indicator, dial caliper, or even a passing interest in measurement or tolerances of most tools. There were just good products, not so good products, and bad products.

   Today - the average consumer in our industry is an order of magnitude more educated about, and familiar with, the principles of measurement and tolerances - and is far more demanding (which is a GOOD thing!). However, there is an element of shifting consumer focus from the performance of tools, to the tolerances of tools...

   Getting back to the honing guide (and the key word is GUIDE - not fixture, or jig) - it's main purpose is to accurately and repeatably set and maintain an angle. I have never had a problem squaring a chisel or plane blade by eye, nor have I ever found it necessary to do more than that... Why?-..there can be more error introduced by the surface of a stone, or by applying pressure differentially at the edge of the blade while sharpening...and in any event, why get hung up over a fraction of a degree on a chisel??

   Every honing guide on the market now has some sort of quirk, "problem" or strength. The vise type guide will clamp securely, but not necessarily square, nor evenly. Ours can set and hold an angle, but is prone to rotation...but ultimately, you can produce an edge you can shave with, with either jig...

   Having said all that, we do have a new honing guide headed for product (target spring release) - it's much closer to "fixture" performance, than "guide" performance... I'll say right now that it'll be/do the following...

   1) it will square tools precisely (and repeatably) in the jig
   2) it will have more capacity
   3) it will use a different registration/clamping system
   4) it will clamp rock solid
   5) it will be more expensive
   6) it will have a utility patent

   Sounds good eh?

   About the only thing I didn't say is that it'd make your tools sharper - cause it won't. Nor will there be a pressing need to replace your current guide with the new one - unless you want to, or have the need for the increased capacity (ie, a #8 plane blade). I know I'll be able to get the same level of performance out of either guide - though the "accuracy" of the new one will be better, with a bit less effort.

   17 (or 18 years ago) when we came out with our current guide - it was revolutionary, afforded unheard of accuracy, repeatability, and all for a good price. For many woodworkers - it enabled them to sharpen well for the first time... So what's changed over the last 17 years, requiring a new honing guide?? We, collectively, as consumers have!

   Not that that's a bad thing, it's what drives progress, and design....

   Perhaps in another 20 years or so...the current honing guide will be the "Bedrock" of it's type...

   And now I think I have the theme for the customer letter for the catalog(ue) which introduces it...

   Cheers -

   Rob

1. 
   VeniciaL | Jan 26, 2004 06:26pm | #17

   Rob

   The issue about the guide itself aside for a moment, thanks for taking the time to reply here. That is very thoughtful of you.

   The opportunity to share information not only with fellow workers, but to be able to hear from manufacturers and their representatives makes this forum all that much more valuable.

   Your products and supplies have helped my woodworking efforts for a long time.

   VL