I’m wondering if anyone has experience with the new Veritas side-clamping guide and the LN. I’m leaning LN, but at 1/3 the price, I can’t ignore Veritas.
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Replies
Personally I would recommend the Veritas Mk.II jig over both with the narrow blade accessory which is a side clamping jig. The Mk.II is the most versatile sharpening jig on the market with a host of accessories, like an elliptical roller for easily curving scrub plane blades, available to expand its repertoire. I feel the wide roller of the Veritas is more stable than the narrow roller of the Lie-Nielsen and if you are willing to spend the sheckles for the Lie-Nielsen why not get the widely regarded best jig on the market?
I like the Veritas side-clamping guide too. I have no experience with the Lie Nielsen.
I recently upgraded from the generic $15 side clamping jig to the new Veritas. The Veritas has a much wider roller and clamps on straight and true with no need for fiddling or tweaking. I've never worked with the LN version, but I don't see how it could do more than that.
I've had the Lie Nielsen since it first came out. I've only used the new Veritas a few times.
The Veritas is a bit like the old Eclipse. It has an upper and a lower slot. Some blades fit in one, but not the other. Blades need to protrude different lengths to achieve the same bevel angle. You can't hone really short blades, such as a spokeshave. It's made pretty well -- much better than the Eclipse.
The Lie Nielsen is built like a tank. It's all stainless steel. There is only one slot for blades,so setup is easier. The jaws are changeable, though most everything youll sharpen fits in the stock jaws. But there are additional jaws to sharpen really short blades, like spokeshaves. Another set will do really narrow chisels. Another will hold really thick chisels like pigstickers. And another set will do skewed blades. The roller is a little narrower than the Veritas -- which is a plus, really. It's plenty wide to be stable. But narrow enough to put some camber on a blade when you want to.
The Lie Nielsen is more versatile. It's also better made, but I'm not saying the Veritas is poorly made, at all. But obviously the L-N is more expensive. I personally think it's worth it.
I know folks love the Veritas MK II. I really hated it. Blades shifted on me all the time, and it was just too fussy. I got frustrated and sold mine, going back to an Eclipse style until the L-N came out. For those that get great results from theirs, that's all that matters in the end.
It sounds like you are describing the Veritas stand alone side clamping jig not the Mk.II, I and others posted about. The Mk.II has since added a side clamping narrow blade accessory that works beautifully although I can't imagine how much pressure you were applying for the blades to shift in the original clamp. I used mine for years that way and can't recall a blade moving. The comment about the Lie-Nielsen being more versatile is also something I would question.
It's the top-clamping Veritas jig that kept slipping. The side-clamping Veritas the OP was asking about is new, and analogous to the Eclipse/Lie Nielsen side-clamping jigs.
But since you had the Mk.II they introduced a side clamping narrow blade accessory for the Mk.II you may not be aware of. It works in a manor just like the stand alone jig or the Lie-Nielsen.
I hear that complaint about the MkII a lot but I've only had it happen once. I don't rush to sharpen though, and only usually do it when I'm in the mood - like ironing it's best done in batches. I suspect that means I'm more likely to screw it down firmly.
The Eclipse at under $20 will work as well as any. The MK II which, could have been designed by Rube Goldberg, is "too clever by half", just my opinion :-).
If you want to spend the money I would go with the Lie Nielsen without a doubt. It does offer a nice option for short blades, but then you are close to $200. Like all their stuff it is beautifully made and based on a proven design.
For me, I make a wooden handle with a kerf to engage a short blade and sharpen it freehand.
Another alternative:
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/kellhoningjig2-58incapacity.aspx
MK2 is by far the best. IMO
The small roller guides are inexpensive but typically not built all that well. The ones that are, like the one linked above, are half the price of the MK2 and still have their limitations.
I've been considering the LN jig. There is a video done by an English fellow (can't remember his channel) where he pretty well points out the pros and cons.
He concluded the MKII is more fiddly, the LN is faster and easier to set up.
This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_adhVrZFws
The accessories for the LN seem like they would add up to a much higher cost than the Veritas system. At $45 per jaw set, left or right, it will get expensive.
I also can't see how changing jaws for different chisels is any less fiddly than the MK2
JMHO
The regular jaws will sharpen all bench plane blades, block plane blades, and chisels, except for the 1/8. If you want to do pig sticker chisels, skew blades, spokeshaves, or 1/8 chisels you need to change blades. All the other honing guides I know of require additional accessories to do those things, or just flat out can't do them at all.
Sorry, but I just had no luck with the Veritas Mk II. Even wider blades slipped and got skewed. Narrow blades were acomplete no go. And the various parts of the deluxe MKII are, as someone mentioned, just some sort of Rube Goldberg device. If yours works for you, great. But the LN does 99.5 percent of my sharpening with the included set of jaws, and isn't the tiniest bit fiddly. It's built like a tank.
The new veritas guide rocks. Its not like the eclipse in such a way where chisels go on one level, irons on the other. You can use either, I honestly don’t know why they included multiple levels. The 3 point of contact solution to odd shapes blades is very smart. It tightens adequately by hand which is worth more than it sounds. 30* is exactly 1.5” in the upper slot so I don’t even use my guide stops anymore. I just measure using the same ruler I use for the ruler trick a la David Charlesworth. It makes for a very condensed sharpening kit. For me, thats a small tupperware with an 800 stone, 6000 stone, guide, ruler, water, and rag.
If I we’re working with a spokeshave as much as I am a #4 and blockplane maybe I’d look for something else. But I rarely need to hone my spoke shave and it’s easily done free hand.
That being said, I’d buy the LN. LN can’t be beat.
I have been using the LN honing guide for some time and am very impressed with it although it comes at an eye watering price. I recently bought the Veritas side clamping guide which I though would work better with narrow chisels (less than 3/8) but it has been a big disappointment because it does not hold the chisel perpendicular to, or the back parallel with, the wheel. The sharpened angle came out at 93 degrees on a 1/4 inch chisel! I think the flaw is in the aluminum gripping pieces which are moulded rather than machined. It's a great shame because it is otherwise a well designed tool at a sensible price.
The Veritas Mk II has many accessories that allow for the sharpening of just about anything. For example, there's a short blade carrier for spokeshave blades that will fit into the Veritas MkII like a longer plane blade.
I also like the Veritas measuring jigs that let you set up blade extension and blade skew. And the eccentric roller that easily lets you add 1 or 2 degrees extra tilt with just the twist of a knurled brass knob.
With the right accessory attached, no blade of the great variety I have slips for'ar, back or sideways. Apsrt from ......
..... I have noticed two blades that don't fit well in the side clamping attachment (for chisels) One was a wonky-shaped blade (so the fault of the chisel, not the guide) but the other is a chisel with a tapered (along its length) blade. These are hard to fit in any side clamping guide as it grips only two points of the blade sides, not the whole length that's in the jaws. But using the top/bottom clamp accessory for the Veritas is the answer there. Just make sure the clamp is tight but flat (not arched by over-tightening).
Lataxe
I am curious what Jay decided. I bought the narrow side clamping Mk2 for my chisels and like how easy it is to use once you figure out what all of the different settings do and pay attention. More than once I forgot to reset the elliptical roller back to its standard position after doing the secondary bevel and messed up the next chisel I sharpened a week later. With time and repetition I have gotten better at remembering to check my settings.
Recently I added a Mini plane and a No.5 Bench Plane along with a low angle spoke shave to my collection. The mini plane works fine on the narrow Mk2, but the Bench Plane is too wide for the clamps. Now I need to buy the top clamping wide blade Mk2, and they don't sell the clamp for that separately, so now I had to buy 2 jigs. Then I find I need to buy yet another attachment in order to sharpen spoke shaves, but alas... the Mk2 short blade attachment does not fit low angle spoke shaves, so I need to fabricate something myself.
I thought by buying the Mk2, which was toted as the do it all guide, that I would be all set, but in the end ALL of the nicer guide systems end up being expensive with many add ons you need to buy. The Veritas Side Clamping Guide for $50 seems like a great place to start if you are going to have to make your own accessories anyway.
I had the whole kit from LV and used it for several years. I had both rollers, the regular clamp, the side clamps, the gauge to set the angle, etc. It was a nice setup but way too complicated. I sold it all and bought a LN guide and a spare set of jaws for spokeshaves. In my view, no contest. The LN version works better and more predictably, and it's really simple.
Since this popped back up and I was asked...the short of it is, after a few beers on my birthday, I bought myself the Lie-Nielsen jig. I regret nothing. Also, the Mk.II is great.
The longer version starts with the fact I've owned the Mk.II for a few years. Maybe I should have disclosed this originally, but I was open to totally sticking with it. Like others, I have experienced slippage issues with the top clamping head. I found that slowing down and using very light pressure (as one should) would generally prevent any slippage. However, I was always paranoid and constantly checking for square. That is a personal issue on me, but it made me dread sharpening even more than normal. This paranoia is also why I insist on using a jig. My brain will never trust my body to sharpen freehand. Saw straight and plum? Sure. Freehand sharpen square? Nope!
I still use the Mk.II with the narrow head for chisels. It is fiddly, but I like the registration jig and how easy it is to add the secondary and/or micro-bevel. I also still use the Mk.II with the skew registration jig for my skew rabbet plane.
If I could go back and just buy one...that's tough. If I only owned Lie-Nielsen planes and was committed to keeping it that way; life would be pretty alright and the answer obvious. But there is world beyond LN. As I mentioned, the LN jig can't help me with the blade for my skew rabbet plane. The flexibility the Mk.II offers is really nice for now and the future. The LN jig is dead simple and I'm confident the blade is square. It is just as dreamy as you expect it to be, maybe more. I am very fortunate to own both. It's a true luxury. However, given the flexibility, I think I would get the Mk.II if I could only have one.
I vote for the Veritas Mk.II, it works perfectly well for me on all chisel and plane blades. I don't think it's "Rube Goldberg", I think it's accurate and repeatable and easy to use, especially for adding a 2 degree microbevel.
I’ve been using the Veritas Mk II for most of my chisel and plane sharpening. I have the narrow blade holder that I’ll use for chisels and I recently bought the cambered roller as I find myself more inclined as of late to put a light camber on most of my plane blades. I was having a little slippage early on and in talking with Veritas tech support they suggested a little strip of self-adhesive sandpaper (I think I used 1000 or 1200 grit) on the top, fixed side. I do use a small square before I start to sharpen just to make sure my blade is in the jig square.
I did buy the newer side clamping jig and find it a quick way to go find chisels. I used a marking knife and scored the reference angle lines on a block of scrap wood for quick set up.
I recommend the Veritas Mk II delux jig. I have been using it for some time now and it is wonderful. It allows me to sharpen all my plane blades, and my chisels, including the 1/8" size. It allows me to be consistant with my angles. The straight roller is great for blades that you don't want to pull the corners on - like chisels and jointer plane blades, and the cambered roller allows a consistant pulling of the corners, or even a camber to the blade if needed. I have not yet seen a guide as versatile as the Mk II delux set.
I had the Veritas Mk.II first. Learned how to use it. It was fine. I got a Lie-Nielsen for the angled jaws needed for skewed plane blades. I liked it better than the Mk.II. With standard jaws, it is easier to maintain a square edge too. I use the Lie-Nielsen for everything.
I should add that either of them really improves my sharpening. I can accurately set a particular bevel angle and reproduce it. I can change the bevel a few degrees very accurately. My freehand sharpening gets to sharp but I cannot control the angle.
I have the LN jig, the Veritas MK II jig and the Eclipse jig, or at least a copy of it. I started with the MK II, but got frustrated when grit got between the roller and the axle, spinning the settings as you rolled it. I also kept forgetting to set the angle on the roller. And it won't hold my triangular shaped Japanese dovetail chisels or spokeshave blades.
So I tried an Eclipse style guide. It worked pretty well. I did the modification shown on the LN website and it worked even better, but still couldn't do my Japanese chisels or spokeshave blades. Plus the bearing on it froze over time. Grrr.
Finally, when LN had a tool show at Palomar College, near my house, I tried the LN guide and fell in love with it. Smooth, very well machined, sealed bearing, stainless steel. I made the gauge with the blocks for setting the angle, which is does very easily. And, with the various jaws, I can sharpen almost anything I own very quickly. I still have the Veritas MK II for the odd skew chisel, but the LN does the majority of the work.
If I had to have only one guide, it would definitely be the LN.
Good comments here. Both these sharpening systems are quality products that promise great results to any user. As with all things personal taste is …. personal.
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