Veritas vs Lie-Nielsen planes
Bouboubomber
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
Anybody has comments on the Veritas versus the Lie-Nielsen planes??
Especially someone who has both!, For example a #4 1/2 Veritas goes for $249 canadian and the Lie-Nielsen goes for $390 canadian.
Is the difference in price worth??, Anyone has comments?? thanks
Replies
A couple of weeks back we had a wood working show in my area, Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen were both there.
I was looking for a new low angle block plane and was able to hold both in my hand. The Lie Nielsen fit a little better, nice rounded cap.
The quality of manufacture seemed to be equal, Lee valley had better prices. Being able to pick them up and see which feels better helps.
Going to come down to personal preference, both are good.
Darren.
bouboubomber,
I recently traded in my Veritas 4 1/2 and put the money toward a LN 4 1/2 at the latest woodworking show in Victoria.
I used the Veritas briefly and, although it is an excellent plane, still I felt compelled to buy the LN. The mechanism on the Veritas was a bit finicky and I had an issue with shavings getting snagged on the set screws used to regulate the lateral movement of the iron.
While the LN is a big bite to swallow, I know I will enjoy chewing on it in the meantime.
HTH.
Hi BouBomber,
I assume your from WInnipeg??? Sorry to hear about your football team and better luck next year.
I have owned a Bedrock 604 1/2 (tuned with a flat sole), the Veritas 4 1/2 and the Lie Nielsen 4 1/2.
By far the best performing plane was the Lie Nielsen. The poorest performing was the Veritas. The Bedrock is capable of leaving a nice surface on most Hardwoods but the Lie Nieslen leaves a flawless surface.
If you look at the specs betwen the Veritas 4 1/2 and the LN 4 1/2 you will find that the Lie Nielsen has a thicker blade, a cyrogenically treated blade, and the Lie Nielsen is also a half pound heavier. The sole on my Lie Nielsen is dead flat giving me shavings in the 5 ten thousandths range with no tearout on curly and quilted maple.
I have spent allot of money in the past buying Spier's, Bedrock's, Veritas and Lie Nielsen's looking for the best possible smoother and the smoother I will be happy with for the rest of my life. For me personally it is the Lie Nielsen.
Good Luck,
Dan Clermont
I hve the Lie-Nielsen #4 in Bronze, and agree with your assessment. It is a dream to work with, and it flawless in both construction and performance.
Both companies make excellent planes. I am however a Lie Nielsen fan. Firstly they have the "look" and feel of the old stanley's. They just feel so good. Secondly, I just have a gut feel, that someday after I am long gone, they will fetch the prices the old Stanley Bedrocks now demand. Lastly, they are beautiful tools from a great company.
When I walk in my shop and see my now complete collection of LN tools in their lighted glass door wall case, I just get a great feeling. Placing one on a nice hunk of wood and going to work is even more satisfying. LN is first class, but better yet, they have maintained and era of fine tools, all others are just now copies, with added frills and a new look.
Yeah, both plane companies are amazing. It hard to say one is better than the other. Both are woodworkers planes, meant to be used. I think LN has the added benifit of being more collector friendly, and of course more historical. Veritas seems to be built for utility. The woodworker part of me goes for the Veritas planes, because he's cheap. The tool junkie part of me likes the LN. As such my tool collection is a bit of a mash up.
Other than for ultra-boutique planes like Holtey, Lie-Nielsen sets the standard.
I was at the same wood show in Victoria and have tried both Veritas and Lie Nielsen. Last year a bought a skew rabbet block plane from Lie Nielsen and this year I bought a #4 1/2 smoothing plane. I couldn't possibly be happier with either. The quality and attention to detail is flawless. When the side is taken off the rabbeting block plane there is only a small, maybe 3/16 thick bit of metal holding the plane together. Somebody, who shall remain nameless, dropped it on a cement floor. The nose hit first. The paint is marred there but otherwise it is like it never happened. The body is perfectly straight.
jeremy
I have the Veritas low angle jack plane and I couldn't be happier with it. I must say that if I had the money i would have bought the LN Version. But I do have the LN low angle bronze block plane, and it is my absolute favorite tool to use. Both brands are good, but I think that LN is a better product.
Kaleo
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
BouBou,
Whenever anyone asks "Which is best?", my response is, "What are your criteria?" I surmize that you were looking for the opinion of folks who had used both LN and LV planes. That's nice.
BUT there are other criteria. There are some insane things in this world that signifantly change the world. For example. On EBAY, Lie Nielsen planes rarely sell for much below what they sell for new, and they often sell for more than new. This doesn't make any sense to me, but it is REAL. It has been going on a long time, and the situation is stable.
To me, the most important aspect of cost is "Life cycle cost". Lee Valley planes are, IMHO, very high quality, but they don't command the resale prices on EBAY that LN does. If you buy a LV plane, and you don't like it, LV will take it back, no questions asked. If after six months, you simply tire of it, you can get almost all of your money back on EBAY.
Given this situation, my advice to everyone is to buy one of each of the LV tools, and two of them if you have the cash. They are a better investment than putting money in the bank, and they are a lot of fun. You just can't beat that with a stick.
Given these facts, your question of "Which is best?" takes on a different twist. To me, it is a no-brainer. Until Lee Valley tools acquire the EBAY cachet that Lie Nielsen has, it just doesn't make any sense to go with anything other than LN. Even if LV were a little "Better" than LN, I believe that the added fluidity of your investment is a big plus.
By the way, I like Lee Valley tools and the Lee Valley folks are great! My comments here should NOT be taken as anti-LV.
(The following is meant to be humorous.) I have been thinking of opening an EBAY business in which I buy Lie Nielsen tools directly from Lie Nielsen at their regular price, and then just turn around and selling them on EBAY. But that seems like too easy a way to make money. :-) :-) My suggestion to LN would be to open an EBAY store and let their new tools compete with the higher priced used LN tools that are being auctioned off. This is a delightfully crazy world we live in.
Hope that helps more than it hinders.
Enjoy,
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
My general tool buying philosophy is to buy the best tool for the work which I can afford or are willing to pay for, and assume I will keep it indefinitely. In this case resale value has no meaning for me, only acquisition cost matters. So a decision between a LV and LN plane comes down to which one do I feel will do the better job, and if it's the LN then am I willing to pay the extra amount for the incremental amount it will work better.
David,
Thanks for the response. You had asked people to compare LN with LV planes, but you didn't provide the criteria you want to use in evaluating them. I suggested one of them could be resale value. Suppose after using your LN or LV plane for five years, you decide to buy a Marcou or a Holtey instead, because you saw or used one, and you find that is the "best". Wouldn't it be nice if you could sell your previous plane easily and for what you paid for it? To me, that is a good thing.I just exchanged a few emails with Philip Marcou about the criteria for evaluating planes. Very interesting. That's why I would like to know what your criteria are. Everyone seems to have different ones, and they are mostly unstated. That makes for a fun but often not useful discussion.Go to Marcou's website and read the evaluation of one of his planes by a man by the name of Tony Roth. Tony criticized Marcou's plane because he found machine marks on the underside of the lever cap!!! You should read the entire evaluation. Very interesting. His main but unstated criterion seemed to be how the machinging on the Marcou plane he had purchased compared with the machining on the Holtey plane he already had.I have never been able to afford a $2000 Marcou or an $8000 Holtey plane, but I wonder what criteria one would use in comparing one with an LN or an LV or with each other? Since you only mentioned LN and LV, but you are looking for the "Best", I guess you had ruled out a Marcou or a Holtey. So I assume that cost is one of your unstated criteria.Anyway, in any evaluation, I think the most important thing is to be able to state criteria well. I was wondering what yours are for a plane.Enjoy,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I am not the person who started this thread, just someone who made a comment after seeing the resale value of planes brought up in connection with which plane is better to buy.
As I said in my note my primary criteria for buying a tool is how well it will do the intended job. Naturally workmanship and materials enter into this, but only where it affects the performance of the tool. I do consider ease of use and how well the tool fits my hands as part of doing the job. Secondary considerations are appearance and workmanship quality in areas which don't affect performance. Tools priced for their collector value as opposed to functional value are not ones I'd ever consider buying.
I also keep tools, so the probability of reselling one is pretty low. Unless I actually resell a tool then the price it would bring is irrelevent.
The situation is differernt for someone who wants to have the latest and greatest, and wants to be able to sell what they have to buy something different.
Perhaps I'm naive in assume folks are mostly buying tools to do woodworking with, not to impress their friends or themselves.
There are many reasons why people buy planes - some of them are actually about the performance of the plane! :) These days one must be prepared to withstand personal attack if a recommendation is made. It seems athat there are more emotional factors involved than objective facts. There are the supporters of LN and the supporters of LV, and each will state catagorically that their plane is the best. There are the supporters of vintage only, and who will sneer at those who spend more than $5 on a tool. There are those whose aim is to collect a matched set of their brand of choice. There are those that insist on making their own. I could go on and on...
I have said this before and will say it again - most hobby woodworkers will not test the limits of their LN, Clifton, LV, Knight, and Gordon planes since the wood they work is relatively undemanding. On the moderately hard woods that most use the differences in these planes is more likely due to the way they were set up and prepared by the user. It is only when the planes are seriously tested on demanding woods that differences emerge. As a result, issues such as ergonomics play a big role - how the plane "feels" when it is held, how the adjustment works, the feedback one receives. Looks play a part, as does reputation and fashion.
The irony is that this thread began 2 years ago!!! The original post implied that the LN #4 1/2 was going to be a shoe-in as a purchase. But he bought a LV BUS instead. Totally different plane. Totally! How does one begin to compare them - they have contrasting design philosophies (BU vs BD), contrasting construction (iron vs bronze), feels (low centre of gravity vs high centre of gravity), different adjustment mechanisms, different tote angles, different sharpening demands .....
There wasthe poster who bought a LV LA Jack and really wanted the LN LA Jack but it cost too much. Why? These are different planes - like a #5 1/2 verses a #5. Perhaps he just liked the way the LN looked?
And so how do you know which is best?
Best for whom?
As one who has used, reviewed, owned and loaned a great number of planes, I must emphasize that they all are fun to use, and will do a satisfactory job when set up correctly. When they are not set up appropriately for the demands of the task, then even the best will fair poorly.
LN make wonderful BD planes. LV make wonderful BU planes. I'd use this as a Rule of Thumb. But that hardly begins to say which is right for you. I suspect that this is what the original poster discovered - once his preconceptions were put aside, he made a choice that was different from what he started out to but it proved to be right for him. This does not necesaarily make it the best plane.
I dislike it when I read comments and recommendations by readers that are pure emotion and are not backed up with any objective information. Hey, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. And that is what makes this forum interesting. Just don't take it all so seriously.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek, it's a joy to hear logic and not emotion -or finance- when all we are trying to do is flatten the wood. I have a full rack after 40+ years of sniping. The 1,2 and 4 are Bailey style and he 3,4 1/2, 5, 6, 7 are Cliftons. All the rest 5, 6, and 608 are bed rocks. As I move to the South (TN) I have encountered more hardwood and some of it has a nasty grain always on the short end of the board, (all be it not half as bad as your down under woods). My problem-what do I buy- is solved by a LN 5 1/2 York pitch. While I truly love my Cliftons, the LN had more weight and the York frog which avoided the playing around with various sharpening angles on a Clifton to equal the action of the York pitch. I don't care what LN sells for on Ebay, they will probably have to pry my fingers from a plane tote before they close the coffin. All the best, Pat
Oops, forgot the Stanley 5 1/4, 5c , Record 5, a pair of LV low angle BU and a Record 020c. pfh
Edited 11/19/2006 12:15 am ET by PADDYDAHAT
Pat,
I read the list of planes that you have, that Bouboubomber has and that Napie has. So I went to make a list of mine. One Craftsman, four middle aged Stanleys, and one home-made. That's what happens when you continually go to a jointer, a thickness planer and a belt sander. But I'm coming around. It will just take time. Norm's influence was just too great. :-)Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel, sorry for the delayed response, been to the new house/shop in TN(4 weeks) , stopped in PA to see the grandkids and just arrived in NY this PM.
The collection of planes was over 20 years and not all at retail. If I saw a deal , I jumped at it(a Clifton #7 for $187 not $400+, or a nice item on Ebay that could be fetteled and re-ironed) and thus I got a fine collection of users.
All of my wood will be sized under power and then worked according to end purpose. A wall case for tools will see the router table but a nightstand for the kids will be done with a Stanley #45 or #55 to mould the edges or rabbat the backs. So I guess that I am of two worlds. Merry Christmas, Pat
Pat,
Glad you got a bargain, and glad you are now re-settled. Good luck with both projects. Please have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Woodworking Year.
It has been a pleasure meeting you and conversing with you this year.
Enjoy,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
"Just don't take it all so seriously."Yeah well, after reading your post, I uh...will try and read it again later and mark the unserious nature. I think I get your point though.Anyhow, I have the little LN bronze block, and the LV low angle block. Both perform well. The LV is too chunky for my hand for the small material removal, but does a better job hogging out material. The LN feels better in my hand and carries better in my toolbelt on the job. I think I may get the LN regular angle adjustable throat next.
Jer
The little bronze LN #103 (Standard angle) block plane is my favourite plane. It just fits my hand like a glove and has the heft of a larger plane. It may not be as good a performer as the LN LA 60 1/2 block plane, but it is nicer to hold. The 60 1/2 is, in turn, nicer to hold than the Stanley #65 knucklehead (with LN blade), which is perhaps the best of the block planes I own (and, incidentally, the same width as the LV block plane), but it is too large and uncomfortable for extended use in my hand (average size). Mileage will vary for others.
View Image
Stanley #65, LN LA #60 1/2, LN #103.
Regards from Perth
Derek
just to reply to this thread because I recently purchased both a LN and a veritas. I bought a new LN 4 1/2 and a veritas scrub plane. I do always check eBay before I buy to and was astounded to see used LN's selling for higher than list can't figure it out. Anyway love both planes both excellent quality and unsalable right out of their boxes IMO the veritas was the better buy fit and finish wasn't as good but quality was the same and price was better, and since I use these planes and not sit them on shelves quality is what matters to me. I searched for a Stanley #40 for 2 mo's on ebay and the prices they were fetching for ones that didn't need that much work was ridiculous, the veritas is made better and ready to go and was delivered to my door in less than 48hrs after I ordered it. As for LN if you can not buy it in the store some planes have a waiting list that is no good for me. I will buy planes from both manufactures in the future. I just wish someone would make a replica of the Stanley #92. I purchased a new one from woodcraft for $100.00 and took it back the next day! after I opened it I realized the mouth was not parallel, and the blade did not even sit flat on the bed! I will keep looking on ebay to get an older one of better quality and for about 50 to 100 more than a new one. So moral of the story buy from either company just not Stanley you will not get your money worth there. my 2cents RB
To what extent might those who enthuse about Lie Nielson planes be justifying to themselves the wisdom of their decision? Doubtless the planes are good. Furthermore, owning one or several places the owner in an elite, always a gratifying thing for one's ego. Like joining a (relatively) exclusive club.
On the other hand, perhaps my motive in asking this question is mere envy.
Buy one and find out. I have never read about anyone not loving their LN plane. For me it's not about ego, it's about quality and how well the tool works.
My query didn't deny that LN planes are good. Nor did it imply their users might be solely motivated by snob appeal. It simply asked to what extent the owner of LN planes is also -- repeat, also -- moved by other factors than their quality.
Quality is something we all appreciate at an almost intuitive level. A Ford and a Rolls Royce will both get you there, but at base, if money was no object, most people would love to have the Rolls.
LV planes are very nice and do the jobs any of us might ask of them. But the LN planes are higher quality to the extent that I'd wager most of us if you put down the equivalent models LN and LV on the table and said take one, would take the LN every time. And it's not because the LV wouldn't do the job, or are not nice planes.
By the same token, if we were talking smoothers, and the same test were done between the LN and the great infills, I'm guessing the vast majority of us would take the infill.
Quality at a given price, that's all it really is. It's fun to use high quality tools, just the way it's fun to drive a really high quaility car.
I own both LV and LN planes. To my eye, the main difference is the LN planes are more attractive looking than the LV, due to the use of bronze instead of all ductile iron--for example in their shoulder planes and adjustable mouth block planes. I don't think the LN planes are any higher quality than LV, and LV has shown a distinct leaning toward new technology and design, while LN planes are basically recreations of older, already existing planes. I don't think you go wrong with either one. Just depends on how much you want to spend and what catches your eye. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Tom, of the LV andf LN plane models that correspond, if given the choice I described, in which instances would you take the LV off the table?
By the way, I never said the LV were not good quality, only that I think LN is slightly higher quality.
Hard to beat the LV Medium Shoulder Plane and LV low Angle Jack !! Also have the LN 103 and LN 60 1/2 I only have 5 Planes and there all users. If you buy your planes based on performance I would imagine you probably own both brands. If someone only buys them to look at I would imagine they probably have LN as they are beautiful planes !!!!!!
So you would take the LV medium shoulder from a table with the LN medium shoulder on it as well? And you would take the LV law angle block against the LN LA block?
Yup, they all cut wood as well as any of us could ask. No question. But given the choice, which do you pick?
Samson
I don't disagree, really. It comes down to hair splitting in a way. I think LN planes are more attractive to the eye than LV, but that's a small thing. If they are equal in price, I probably would go for the LN. What I like so much about LV is the value--a lot of plane for the money. When I was trying to decided between the LN or LV medium shoulder plane, I chose the LV because of price, nothing else. It's a great plane and works very well.
It's fun to use high quality tools, just the way it's fun to drive a really high quaility car. Well said. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
I get ya.
Hi,
Thought I'd post my ? here since we're on the topic of planes.
I was at Home Hardware this afternoon and I noticed they had a Stanley 12-220 plane on sale for $27.99 (was $36.99) All it says on the Stanley website is it is ideal for cross grain. Set at a 21 degree angle.
I have never used a hand plane before so I have no idea if this plane is worth purchasing. Since I am only a novice I don't need a top of the line plane. But I do want a quality plane. A tool that can hold an edge and is easy to sharpen.
Would that 7" plane be ok for trimming around windows. and door frames that are slightly proud. and for trimming/smoothing edge grain on the sides of an end table?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Wanda
Hi Wanda,
Yes, a block plane would be at least very usable on the widt most window trim is, on door trim too as long as you can reliably hold the stock well.
As for the quality of the modern Stanley? It will probably be an exercise in frustration. The steel of the blade is junk, though for $X you can get a replacement blade from Hock, LN and others. But that makes the $30 plane double in price.
Another very frequently found problem on modern planes is the lack of quality machining. Something with effort you can correct with files in nearly all circumstances. This takes care and a little understanding of what needs repaired/altered.
But you need to weigh whether the immediate savings is worth the effort. Personally I would recommend this adjustable mouth block plane from LN:
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=60_5
Or this one from LV:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32685&cat=1,41182,48942
Take care, Mike
hello Wanda, I was in your shoe's not that long ago. Now I am completely addicted to hand tools ( still use power, but now with a good mixture ) knowing what I know now you would be better off to spend the money to get a better plane. That plane is junk and you being new to using it, will not know how to tune it up nor would it be worth it. If you buy it will, it will not work the way it is supposed to and you will just throw it in the tool box and forget about it, and wasted the time,money, and effort. For what you need I would look on ebay for an older Stanley #60 1/2 that someone has already retuned. Or purchase new from LN or veritas. At least that way it will work as designed, and you will actually use it. hope this helps rb
Wanda,
As a couple of others have mentioned, the newly-manufactured Stanley LA block plane is likely to be an exercise in frustration. I bought one a couple of years ago and spent about 6 hours tuning it up (mostly lapping the sole). It now works "OK." On the other hand, I have an early 1980s-vintage Sears Craftsman fixed mouth standard angle block plane that took about 45 minutes to tune, and it works a lot better than that new Stanley LA BP ever will. Go figure.....
If you want a good user LA BP, then you have a couple of choices:
1) Get a vintage Stanley/Sargent/Millers Falls, etc. (pre-WW II) and clean/tune it up. As long as the casting and mechanism are in good shape, you'll end up with a nice plane, and learn a lot about BPs in the process. Done this a number of times; it's a great way to acquire good user planes for a very reasonable cost.
2) Buy a new LV LA BP. Nice planes and good value for the money. Ready to go out of the box. Aesthetics are in the eyes of the beholder. No personal experience with these.
3) Buy one of the LN BPs. The adjustable mouth BPs (#9-½ and #60-½) are really nice, solid tools. The smaller fixed mouth bronze BPs (#102 & #103) are also very handy. I use them all the time -- I haven't done a WW project in the past couple years that didn't get at least one of these planes used on it. They are a little more expensive, but they are also tools that do exactly what they are supposed to do right out of the box.
If you want to do some reading on hand planes, try The Handplane Book (Garrett Hack), Choosing and Using Hand Tools (Andy Rae), and/or Hand Tools (Aldren Watson). Hack's book is probably the best available general primer on hand planes; the others are also very good books. If you decide to go with a vintage Stanley, Restoring, Tuning, and Using Classic Handtools (Mike Dunbar) is very useful, and will guide you through cleaning and tuning a hand plane (and many other hand tools), step by step.
Have fun and good luck in deciding on a plane. It's a real slippery slope you're on the edge of, and there's many a hand plane user that would be more than happy to give you a wee nudge over the edge.... [Push push...] ;-)
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
Edited 11/20/2006 3:43 pm by pzgren
TO ALL.......... Coincidently I recieved the LV LA Smoother on Friday and tried it right out of the box after putting in the blade which is packed seperately. I used it on some Cherry that I had practiced dovetailing on so as to see how it cut both end grain and flat. It was smooth and easy.
Yesterday,(Tues.) the LN #4 came and I tried it on the same kind of joint and it seemed even smoother. I think the heft of it probably accounted for that.
I will have to try them both out a lot more before I can make a decision. What fun!
Len
I totally agree about the LN #103 being one's favorite plane ever. I have an old Bedrock 604 1|2, all tuned and ready. I love it, but am still thinking about getting the LN same plane so I can have the York frog.
There isn't a store around here anymore (at least that I know of), who carries the LN planes where I can go and hold one in my hand just to get the heft. There used to be a Woodcraft, but they moved on alas. Everything is mail order anymore.
Derek,
Your message was, without a doubt, the best post on Knots that I have seen.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
I can see that them capitalists have snucked a meme into your heed.
Of course if tools were stocks or shares, your argument praising LN above LV would be correct. However, it is surely preferable to swoosh with planes in order to make lovely wooden things, rather than to horde them in a virtual moneybox, or keeping them dust-free in a glass box.....?
Anyway, I am personally too lazy to sell stuff so give things away if finished with them. This also innoculates one against them Unacceptable Capitalists - the ones always shouting, "New!! Impress your neighbours with The Latest Thing"!!! I laugh in the face of their marketing and hopefully undermine the whole economic model with my "generosity", in a very small way of course.
I hasten to add that I am a long way from finished with any of the planes now secreted in the shed - LVs or the Other Sort I have acquired from one P.Marcou of Kiwistan. You could have had my Records for nowt; but they now live in someone else's shed - a gift of a not very good kind really, as he will now suffer the same Record-induced frustrations I did. :-)
I now have 4 LV planes (bullnose, large shoulder, small smoother and block). They are exceptionally pleasant to use and have converted me to a more geneneral Use of Good Handtools. They are robust, very well engineered and function in a most satisfying manner.
However, all this praise for LN means I have to try one of them now as well. The only question is, which can be justified somehow to the ladywife (not to mention to my woodworking rule of ,"Must be needed to actualy make a something"?
Anyway: hypothetically - if it were to appear on ebay, what would you offer for a Marcou smoother, should the maker hisself suffer the proverbial run-in with a bus and not be able to create any more of His Masterpieces? Just hypothesis, as I am attached to mine at the wrist and will never let go, even when dead. The mental experiment might be enlightening, though, as personally I believe their Maker is undercharging for his excellent wares........
Lataxe, relieved that there are not just Records and Anants in the world.
Lataxe,
I wasn't praising the LN over the LV. I was merely pointing out that the LN is a more liquid asset, which is not a bad thing to consider. But that is only one of many criteria in buying anything. I said very nice things about the LV people and equipment.If I found I could buy a Marcou plane or anything else for less than I could sell it for, I would buy it. My sentiment has nothing to do with Philip or his planes. I don't have a Ferrari. I have two Toyotas. I don't have a Marcou or a Holtey. I have a Craftsman, four middle aged Stanleys, and a home made plane. My resources are a bit limited. In woodworking, my focus is on my skills and my output, not on my tools. Obviously there is an interaction between quality of tools and output. So far, my tools have capabilities that I have not fully milked out of them. Maybe when my skill levels increase, I will "trade up." Enjoy,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I read everyone saying about how a LN will be worth all this money, when I can actually see the LV ending up being worth more. I believe there are a lot more LN's out there then there is LV's which will make the LV's harder to come buy and eventually worth more money. I also think it says a lot that it is rare to find one on eBay, that tells me the ppl who own them don't want to part with them. I am not sticking up for one company or the other, if money were no option I would buy strickly lie-nielsen for one reason that being they are made right here in the good ole U S A! I own planes from both companies and love them both, with plans to buy the LV medium shoulder and the LN #103 and also the LN skew angle, I would also love to own the LN Rip and cross cut tennon saw's (someday)!
Speaking of quality and price no one has mentioned Clifton they cost around the same as LN, and are copies of the original Bailey's I have never seen or used one in person but they sure look good would love to some day put one to a block of wood! Any users out there would love to here some feedback on them? rb
"If I found I could buy a Marcou plane (or anything else) for less than I could sell it for, I would buy it."
Metaphorically speaking, the stable door has been locked and the horse long gone.Philip Marcou
wow! people actually sell planes? i have about 15 planes more than i need and still plan on getting alot more...when it comes to planes, resale is not in my vocabulary...much to the disaproval of my wonderfull wife..haha...my vote is lee valley, dollar for dollar..but if price is no object..well..i'll be shopping at the lie neilson store...keep on making those shavings everyone!
Thanx for the reply everyone, but this is an old message, since then i got the LV BUS and love it. Thats not to say i wont get a 4 1/2 LN
I have four L-N's, #4 1/2 with the high angle frog, it is great on figured timbers. A low angle jack that doesn't get as much use but excels at the mitre jack. A #7 that will do about anything. And a low angle block that touches EVERY project. They are the best VALUE in hand planes today
Thabx, I also have a LN #8 and a #5 1/2, both great planes
As napie, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I have 4 LV Veritas's. Low-angle smoother.. #4 1/2.. #4 smoother.. #6 fore and throw in a Veritas cabinet scraping plane. I was not aware that the L-N fetched a larger price for re-sale on e-bay as I am not an e-bayer by nature.
What I am aware of after learning that is I got excellent value in the Veritas and have no intentions of selling them anyway as I have found no reason too. And the price was right based on the quality delivered!
Regards...
SARGE..
LIE-NIELSEN VS VERITAS HAND PLANES
LIE-NIELSEN VS. VERITAS
I have several planes and other tools from Lie-Nielsen and I have nothing but praise for all of these tools, both in function and in form.
Recently, however, I was in the market for a large shoulder plane and decided I liked the design and features of the Veritas version over the Lie-Nielsen. When the Veritas large shoulder plane arrived, I have to confess I was very impressed with the quality of the tool – it works great, is very comfortable to use (especially on it’s side) and looks superb. Oddly, however, I noticed that the blade, although quite sharp right out of the box, was not highly polished on all sides as is common on all Lie-Nielsen tools. The back of the blade is actually a dull gray. But as the tool is superb in every other respect, I overlooked this small flaw.
When I decided to order a low angle jack plane, again I decided I liked the design and features of the Veritas plane over the Lie-Nielsen. When trying the Veritas low angle jack for the first time, again I noticed that the blade was not polished on all sides. Again the back of the blade was a dull gray color and it looked like some coating had dripped all over the sides of the blade and is very sloppy looking. Although the top of the blade was polished, it wasn’t the best job. The blade was definitely razor sharp right out of the box and performs flawlessly, but esthetically, it is quite a disappointment.
In addition to the blade disappointment, I noticed the knob and tote were not finished to the level of a Lie-Nielsen. The LN handles are finished to absolute perfection – they are high gloss and super smooth, a pleasure to touch and feel. The Veritas knob and tote were dull in comparison and the tote actually felt rough – far short of the quality of LN.
The Veritas low angle jack plane does perform flawlessly, both upright and on it’s side for shooting. It is an excellent plane and has some interesting features like set screws to stabilize sideward movement of the blade and a thumbscrew to use as a stop on the mouth setting. But for the price, I expected the highly polished blade, knob and tote that I consistently get from Lie-Nielsen. I’m still debating whether I should return the plane and purchase the Lie-Nielsen instead.
If I never owned or touched a Lie-Nielsen plane, I would have been thrilled with the Veritas low angle jack. Like I said, functionally, the tool is excellent, but I’m afraid I’ve been spoiled by the best. Both firms manufacture excellent, hard working tools. Lie-Nielsen tools, however, are also a work of art.
Here's what I say:
I went to a Lie Neilsen event in Los Angeles. I mentioned that I'd dropped my Lie Nielsen rabbet block plane on the concrete floor, and bent the iron advance screw. They told me where to send it. In two or three weeks it arrived back to me fixed and sharpened at no charge, sent to me as if it were a new product, in a new box and wrapping paper.
Who does that?
They've got a customer for life.
Michael
I have been a joiner for 25 years. I find it hard in a lot of cases to justify expensive,premium planes. Not because I don think there're worth the money,but because General everyday plane would get abused in my job from time to time if I have to go on site. The new Stanley or record are rubbish I've always bought second hand planes. This is easy when it comes to common planes,eg,smothers,jacks and block planes,but it's not easy with specialist planes. I needed a jointer plane, I survived without one for 25 years but enough is enough. I didn't like buying old planes blind on eBay I want to feel them, and good ones go for good money,so I looked at veritas and lie Nielsen. There's not enough in the pricing for me to choose one over the other. I was first drawn to the veritas bevel up jointer,when I tried it it felt wrong, it was to light and i had to keep thinking about my technique,it wasn't natural. The low angle wasn't much of a benefit unles you've got miles of end grain jointing to do.
The LN was totally different it felt as though i was using a plane I had for years, it had everything and within 3 passes over the wood I knew this was the one so I got the LN No 8.
In my experience all good tool manufacturers can have great tools and not so great,this includes power tools. I have a wide variety of tool brands I would never buy all dewalt or makita.
This is the same here, the impression I got from these two brands are this, if your after a no nonsense top quality plane lie Nielsen is the way to go. If your after something new and innovative veritas is the way to go, I can see more non professionals going with veritas as they don't know what it's like to work with a plane all day all week.
That said I would consider the veritas low angled jack.
Both make great tools but how I use them and how you use them is chalk and cheese.
Know what you need not what you want.
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