I’ve just recently tried using a vertical panel raising bit for the first time. Previously I’ve made raised panels with the tablesaw and a rabbeting plane. It was slow but I got the results I wanted. Now I have a pretty large quantity of doors and panels to make so I thought the router method would speed things up for me a bit.
The bit I have is made by Magnate (available thru Amazon). I liked this particular bit because it cuts an 18′ bevel. Most are shallower. It’s a 2-wing cutter with a 1-5/8″ cutting height.
After using the bit I’m wondering if my experience is normal or if I’ve bought a not-so-great router bit. I’ve found that the tear-out is much more than I expected. To shape a panel in poplar or cherry and get a decent result I have to make at least 4 passes with a very slow feed rate.
Does that sound typical to you?
Replies
I have a vertical panel raising bit from Infinity Tools and it does a very good job. I also have to make several passes to raise a panel but do that even with my big horsepower router and a horizontal bit. You just get a better finish and less chipping taking light passes.
I've not heard of that bit brand but by the description of the results you are getting, it is possible the bit is less than sharp or could have other problems. Cherry can be a little bit of a challenge to machine but I have always had good results working it as you describe, multiple light passes.
Perhaps contacting the manufacturer is in order. It's entirely possible for any company to have a dud tool get out despite their best efforts. Maybe they would have an idea and solution.
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
Thanks Tom, Maybe I was just expecting too much. It is a long cutting edge and in my first attempts I was trying to do the profile in just 2 passes. I can get a reasonably good finish with 4 passes but something in me still wants to take a swipe at it with a hand plane. I'm just used to that sort of surface, I guess.
Another thing I learned on this project is that a slower router speed is counter-productive. On cherry I usually slow down the router because that wood burns so easily. But a slow speed with this bit just meant more tear-out and I couldn't find a feed rate slow enough to eliminate it.
Now that I know 4 passes is not unusual I'll try using an even lighter cut on the last pass. Maybe I'll even make 5 passes if that seems necessary or maybe I can cut a little deeper on the earlier passes and clean it up with a light pass at the end.
Thanks for the info!
Bob
Go back to your table saw and use it to cut most of the material off first. Then use your router to finish the profile in one or two passes. You'll save time on larger runs, and the router bit, because it is only doing the finish cutting will, stay sharper, longer.
That's a thought but I think if I had to do that I'd go back to my old method altogether - basic shape on tablesaw and refine the profile with hand planes. Even with a light cut the finish from this bit doesn't thrill me too much.
Please be careful running such a big bit at high speed. Vertical panel raising bits can run faster than horizontals, but I'd still suggest checking with the manufacturer of the bit for their recommendation. It's not a finish issue, it's a safety issue.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Right - good point. I should point out that even after speeding up the bit it's still running fairly slow. Initially I had my router cranked down about as slow as it goes and that didn't work well with this vertical bit. I think it's still running only about half-speed now. I haven't really checked, I generally gauge the speed as a relative quantity by the pitch of the sound.
One thing I found with the vertical bits is the way the carbide contacts the material. Most of the vertical panel raisers have straight sides and the whole carbide edge hits at once. With horizontal panel raisers, the circular motion allows the bit to cut in a shearing action. I've also found that slowing the speed too much will not help. It's hard to do any shaped panels with vertical bits. I don't find them to be of much use, there seems to be a higher probability of getting chatter marks. This is not only due to the way the bit cuts but also the difficulty in running panels up on edge.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Yeah - that's pretty much what I'm thinking. Maybe there's nothing wrong with this particular bit but the general issue is that 1-1/2" of cutting edge bangs it's way into the board all at once. By design, it's trying to scoop chips out rather than shearing the wood fibers. As a hand-plane user this kind of rubs me the wrong way to begin with. That's why I think the surface will never be what I would like.
As for routing the panel on edge I didn't find that to be too bad. I built a tall extension for my fence and a tall jig to push the panels across the bit. But I have to admit that it gets pretty unweildy for very large panels. The largest panel I've done so far is about 14" wide X 25" tall and that seemed about the limit of manageability on my setup. The hard part for me wasn't routing the short edges with the panel standing taller than the fence - it was starting the long edge with the panel initially hanging over the edge of the table.
I've never tried a horizontal panel raiser though. What's always scared me about those is the "helicopter" effect. It just seems like I'd be launching a panel of wood into the blades of a big old propeller. Maybe I'll give this some more thought and see if I can imagine jigs that would make that feel a little better to me.
Holy smokes, I assumed you were using a vertical bit because you thought your router was underpowered for a horizontal bit. Stock control is much easier with a horizontal bit than a vertical one. You can use two featherboards, even anti-kickback rollers if you've got 'em. And as the previous poster pointed out, your panel is fully supported by your router table throughout the cut, with a horizontal bit.
If you're trying to make this operation as safe as possible, I don't see how a vertical bit has anything on the horizontal setup.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
So you're suggesting I've just made bad assumptions about the relative safety of the bits? You may be right. I've been under the impression that safety was the motivation for invention of the vertical bits and my intuition tells me that the vertical bit will be safer because a point on the perimeter of a horizontal bit will be moving a lot faster than any point on the perimeter of a vertical bit (please don't ask me to do the math - my last physics class was a looong time ago). I may have to try a horizontal bit now just to find out how it feels in practice.
You are certainly right that the horizontal bit, given the same RPM's, will move faster at its edges than the vertical bit. But you should run the horizontal bit at a slower speed anyway, making the linear velocity of the outermost edge the same.
Vertical panel raising bits were made to accomodate lower-powered routers (and single-speed routers).
Try a horizontal panel-raising bit (at the correct speed), and I think you'll find it easier and safer to work with, and easier to produce perfect edges too (because you can achieve better stock stability, as your router table is more stable than your fence).My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
That sounds worth trying, and I will. Thanks for the advice.
We used to do all our panel raising in the cabinet shop i worked in, on the shaper. I was a bit hesitant to do the same process on a router table but i bought a set of cope and stick bits and a horiz panel raiser bit from MLCS (Katana brand). I second the suggestion that you should waste most of the cut with a table saw and finish on the router for the reasons mentioned in earlier posts. I even had to buy a varible speed router for myself to be sure of the safety of the bit ($143 well spent IMHO). I have never used the verticle raisers but the method I have used (on the shaper or the router) and has worked in every wood i've had to machine, was to make the last two passes by moving the fence back to bring the depth of cut proper for the second to last cut(it bottoms out on the bearing on the router table/makes the flat toungue the correct length on the shaper), then making the last cut by raising the bit to the proper hight (toungue thickness for r+s grooves). These last two cuts should never be more than 1/32 each and they will rarely burn even on cherry unless you have a dull bit or move too slowly. The last cut insures that the entire profile is worked with a minmum chance for boggin the machine down. Although, you effectively make the same process by using the planes to finish your panels, if the panel raizer bits save you time (quicker to machine them) it seems it would be worth it to me. If your making up the difference in time saved by adding another step (handplaning/sanding the panel even after the bit was used, then why fix it if it aint broke?I suspect that the lack of shear angle on your bit may be the ultimate culprit. I would try the big scary bit or get a bit with the shear angle to see if it will result in a finish you'll approve.PS:I learned from my experience that having a variable speed router can come in really handy in a lot of other routing applications too.
Bobl
I used a vertical bit for one large project, cursing and sweating the whole way. I have only 1 1/2 hp router and no variable speed option. I decided that if was going to do it again. I would make a horizontal router table so as to use the vertical bit, horizontally. I think it helps to have gravity and the firm support of a large surface to keep the workpiece stable.
I think my router is fine for this - it's a 12 Amp model from Bosch (1617 I think?) and it has variable speed. The vertical table idea looks pretty good to me too but as I mentioned I didn't have any real difficulty keeping the workpiece stable with my current setup. The larger panels made me worry about it a little but in practice, turned out to be OK. My table has a pretty large surface and I made quite a tall fence and a tall jig to hold the panel against the fence. I can see that the vertical table would be better but my setup felt pretty good.
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