Replies

1. 
   BG | Jul 16, 2004 03:38am | #1

   Dave,

   I may be wrong, but you really can't compare the two.  I have the Incra miter and it cuts 45's well...but for a really tight fit I need to shoot it with a plane or use a guillotine...which I don't have. 
2. 
   TomWalton | Jul 16, 2004 03:49am | #2

   I've been using a JoinTech SmartMiter sled for a couple of years now. Cut a test set of 22 1/2s to make an octagon - was light-tight right out of the box. It has the additional advantage of a lead-screw adjustable flip-up stop, calibrated for both long and short dimensions of mitred pieces. Its a mainstay of my shop.

   --tom

3. 
   forestgirl | Jul 16, 2004 03:56am | #3

   The guillotine cutters are pretty expensive -- there may very well be a way to get your precision without spending that much dough.  Can you give more details on the trim to be cut?  How long and wide are the pieces?  Is the trim forming a rectangle or other multi-sided shape?  How wide is the trim?

   I have the Incra 1000 and use it on an old Jet contractor's saw.  It works well enough to make a mitered "face frame" (sort-of) that's 25"W x 32"H with nice tight corners, the trim being 1" in width.

   If my stock was wider and I couldn't get the precision I needed from the Incra, I'd make a mitering sled with a precise 90* stock support, where I could put the stock on the right side for one cut, and the left side for the other.  Theoretically, even if the 45* angle on that stock support is off by 1/4* on one side, it's compensated for on the other and together totals 90*s.

   Actually, though, I can't see why the precision couldn't come from the Incra as long as it fit snugly in the miter slot, because the miter gauge itself is rock solid -- doesn't move one iota.  Any movement problems I've had have been with the stock, and that can be controlled with a hold down and sandpaper.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   Andrew | Jul 16, 2004 04:52am | #4

   I've got an incra miter 1000 on my general 350. It cuts very, very precise miters, that when glued up are absolutley perfect to the naked eye. No matter what you do, you will need a high quality crosscut blade and a well tuned saw to get the best results. with the right set up you can work to within the same sort of tolerances you would typically see in a machine shop

   Andrew

5. 
   johnhardy | Jul 16, 2004 10:35am | #5

   Let me give you another idea for cutting miters. I make high end chess boards and use this method to cut the four boards that surround the board itself. These boards are about 3 inches wide, so the miters need to be very precise or a gap will show.

   What I did was create a specific sled so that I can cut miters. I leave the saw blade upright, as if this were a crosscut sled. I have a fixed "fence" on the right side of the saw kerf, and this fence is set as exactly as I can set it to 45 degrees from the kerf. If you're at the saw, this fence goes from the far right of the sled, at my right hand, at a 45 degree angle towards the middle of the sled. This fence is very straight and high enough for my work (about 1 inch high).

   On the left I use Incra track, but anything would do. I have one end fixed and the other end has some play in it. This fence is also set at a 45 degree angle (mirror image of the other fence.

   In order to cut pieces for my miters, I first put my chess board between the fences to see if I need to adjust the left one. If the corner of my chessboard is slightly over or slightly under 90 degrees I can adjust the fence accordingly. I just snug it up to the chessboard and then tighten it down. Now I can cut that corner of the trim boards. I place the right board on the right fence, cut the end, and then put the left board on the left fence and cut it. If I need to fiddle with the length, I can stop the blade, snug a board up to the blade, slide the sled back towards me, turn on the blade, and take ever so slight a cut.

   I get absolutely accurate miters this way. Note that even if the sawblade isn't exactly 90 degrees to the table that this error is irrelevant. The pieces fit perfectly.

   If this isn't clear, let me know and I'll clarify anything.

   John

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/16/2004 3:37 am ET by johnhardy

6. 
   RickL | Jul 16, 2004 02:21pm | #6

   Don't have the incra but I do use a homemade sled that cuts perfect miters for general mitering and frames.  Sold my lion trimmer years ago as the sled eliminates the extra steps involved with the trimmer plus allows simply cotrolled length adjustement with a stop and scale on the sled. Byt the way this is a method similar to techniques used by commercial picture framers.

7. 
   Dave45 | Jul 16, 2004 04:48pm | #7

   Ahhh, ya gotta love this place.........several great ideas and all within a few hours of posting the question.

   I make cases for very high end stereo components.  The case bodies are maple, mahogany, walnut, cherry or teak plywood with a face trim in some 'exotic' hardwood.  The first batch of cases were good, but the customer asked if the face trim miters could be even tighter.  Since this work will involve repeat orders and good miters have always been a weak point for me, I figured it was time to look into ways to 'nail' them without a lot of 'cut and fit ........ oh sh*t' aggravation.  These trim pieces are usually 5/8" wide and 1/2" thick with 45* ends and the wood is just too expensive to tolerate many mistakes. 

   I like the look of that JoinTech SmartMiter setup.  I could probably make a dedicated sled, but having angle adjustment capability will cover me for some other stuff I make that requires different angles.

   Thanks for the ideas.  If any of you are ever in San Jose, CA, I'll buy you a cold one. - lol

1. 
   SoCalDon | Jul 16, 2004 05:45pm | #8

   For the price of the Jointech you can get a Lion Miter Trimmer from Amazon. I have an older one I won in an auction on Ebay (they usually go for around $150). I love this trimmer for its simplicity and the fact that the cut itself is glass smooth off the trimmer. It has stops at 45 and 90 degrees and can be set anywhere from 0 to 90. They been making this trimmer for close to a hundred years without the need to modify it, its that good!

2. 
   Napie | Jul 16, 2004 06:11pm | #9

   I would agree on the sleds, I make a lot of boxes with differing numbers of sides and built a specific sled for each one, then there is no problem repeating the angle every time.  The time spent making the jigs is usually less than the test cuts and adjustments required to get a multi angle device where you need it and costs a lot less too.

3. 
   forestgirl | Jul 16, 2004 07:42pm | #10

   The Jointech looks remarkable similar to the longstanding "Dubby."

   http://www.in-lineindustries.com/single_dubby.html

   Hate to say it, but having that "adjustment capability" is what makes the mitering process so much trial-and-error, which is what you're trying to avoid, right?  No matter how accurate and solid something like that Jointech or Dubby is, it's still going to need to be tested and set everytime you make something.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 7/16/2004 12:46 pm ET by forestgirl

4. 
   Alan | Jul 17, 2004 12:13am | #11

   Dave,

   I'll second the advice to look at Lion miter trimmers (N.B., "trimmers" not cutters; the Lion is used only to sweeten up an already sawn edge).  I had one way back when I was doing lots of finish carpentry.  I sold it with my changing circumstances, and I'm sorry I did.

   With the most accurate means of sawing a miter, I've found the joint can be improved with a miter trimmer or a shooting board.  I'm not too sure why, but I've seen the difference.  Trimming the miter makes better mating miters.

   Because I no longer have a Lion, or a good reason to get one, I now use a shooting board to trim miters to the line.  A shooting board will produce as good a joint as a Lion, at little or no cost.  I've made more than one out of scraps I found laying around, doing nothing.  It's great fun to put those slackers back to work.

   Alan

8. 
   hammer1 | Jul 17, 2004 02:52am | #12

   I've been making raised panels. Because of their large size, 23"x30" I opted to use 3/4" plywood for the panel. This also allowed me to use some very nice plain sawn, bookmatched plywood in place of a solid wood glue up. Hopefully movement will not be an issue. The raised panel effect is created by a molding that is fitted around the plywood. The molding has a tongue which fits into a groove cut around the perimeter of the plywood panels and is mitered at the corners. The framed panels then fit in to your typical stick and coped rails. The panels, 72 of them, have to be absolutely square and sized identical. The "picture framed" moldings must be absolutely 45 and perfect in length or I have to mess with 576 cuts or more. My Bosch slider is not capable of this accuracy. It also had more of a tendency to cause a little tearout right at the shortpoint due to the tongue. It is unusual to need this precision on most casing work in houses. Nobody will know if your reveal is 1/64" off on one side but when your pieces are restricted you gotta tighten up. I use a shop made sled and my best blade. I dedicate my sleds, the 90 is only 90 no adjustments, same with the 45. If I owned a Lion trimmer I would have used it because the shearing action gives the most precise miter I have ever seen. The trimmer is great for small to medium moldings and flat stock but don't expect it to do large crowns or make returns on big headcasing. Unbeatable for miniature work and little pieces like glass stops. The real trick is setting up a repeatable stop. Registering a 45 against a stop perfectly is a challenge. Pencil marks, knife cuts and laser lines aren't close enough in some cases.

9. 
   forestgirl | Jul 17, 2004 02:56am | #13

   Rephrasing what comment?  I can't remember saying anything that had that intent.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   coolbreeze | Jul 17, 2004 05:45am | #15

   Forestgirl. I did not read into your post what Metod seemed to have.

   His "his grey matter" line was a good one, but I don't think it fit anywhere.

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 17, 2004 05:47am | #16

   Thanks, Mr. Breeze, I thought maybe I was experiencing brain-lock or somethin'.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

10. 
    sawdustmaker | Jul 17, 2004 04:08am | #14

    I use a shooting board with a hand plane. There are plans for these in several magazines. They work great!

11. 
    forestgirl | Jul 17, 2004 06:36pm | #17

    Metod, I think you misunderstood my main point, which was:  If he is trying to eliminate the frustrations and time-consumption of trial-and-error fitting ["without a lot of 'cut and fit ........ oh sh*t' aggravation" he said eloquently], an adjustable sled rather misses the mark.

    forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
    Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)