Replies

1. 
   philip | Oct 26, 2005 01:55pm | #1

   Jay, I have the Record version of this. They are fiddly to use . You should make sure that the little instruction booklet is present, so you can check that all the parts are there, and the wooden box too.I have hardly used it -routers to blame.
   A nice thing to have-of some monetary value I suppose, if all present in original condition

   Philip Marcou
1. 
   DCarr10760 | Oct 26, 2005 06:25pm | #3

   Philip,

   Instructions are available online!

   http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hc/s-44183334/cmd/kbresource/kb-367150803011908802/view_document!PAGETYPE?sc=2&sf=101133&documentid=56793&action=view

   David C (proud user of a 45)

1. 
   JayS | Oct 26, 2005 08:52pm | #4

   Thanks.  What about it makes you proud?  Could you give me some examples of applications where you use it?  Thanks a lot.

   Jay

1. 
   DCarr10760 | Oct 26, 2005 10:37pm | #5

   Sure Jay,

   I use it mostly for beading and plowing grooves for drawer members.  But I have used it to run dadoes and rabbets.  I've never used it for matching (I recently bought an outstanding set of match planes from Clark & Williams, so I probably never will).  I haven't yet played with the sash cutter, but I will do that soon as I have a dining room corner cupboard to build once I get further down the "Honey-do" list.

   One thing I did was to replace the rods with 3/8-inch precision ground shafts.  I also reamed out the holes in the fence and skate to remove rust.   Now they slide easily, which makes them less fussy to set-up.  Mine is an older type without the micro-adjust fence, someday I'll pick one up from somewhere.

   After reading all the instructions and playing with it, I can set it up in a couple of minutes.

   The quality of the cut is generally good.  It doesn't much care for wild grain, but a good sharp cutter and a light cut and it goes pretty well.

   Best Regards,

   David

1. 
   JayS | Oct 29, 2005 01:40am | #6

   I guess I don't quite understand how it works.  Planes in general have to have either a narrow throat with the bevel up as in a block plane, or a chip breaker with the bevel down.  THe 45 has neither a narrow throat nor a chipbreaker.  How can ut make nice curled shavings?

   Jay

2. 
   DCarr10760 | Oct 29, 2005 05:39am | #7

   Well, if your goal is nice curly shavings, then the 45 is the wrong tool.  Buy a coffin smoother from Clark & Williams and you'll get whispy thin shavings and a glass smooth finish.  (I just got one and its outstanding).  But if you want to run a bead or a dado, the 45 works fine.

   I guess it is good to remember who the 45 was developed for, carpenters more than fine furniture builders.  Carpenters who would've had to carry 7 beading planes, a plow plane with 8 blades, a pair of match planes and a sash filister.  This did the work of all of those, did it do as good a job as a well-tuned dedicated plane?  Probably not. 

   But by the time the 45 was in production, commercial moldings were available, so the 45 and the other universal planes were probably used mostly for short runs on-site. This is evidenced by the number of almost-new examples that are still around a hundred years later.  Mine is an turn of the century type, looks hardly used and several of the cutters still have the factory grind.

   Interestingly enough the "throat" of the 45 (meaning the distance from the working end of the cutter to the back end of the skates) is more or less the same distance as the throat of several of my wooden molding planes.  I don't have much problem with straight grained wood with those, or the 45.  By the way, molding planes typically are bezel-down and have no chip breaker, so there is plenty of precedent.

   Back in the days when these planes were in common use, straight old-growth wood was widely available.  A well set up and sharpened 45 does fine on well-behaved straight grain.  Just tonite I ran a 5/16-inch bead on about 12 feet of poplar, It worked great!  It wouldn't be my first choice on curly maple though.

   What people complain about is it's fussyness in setting up (including the great Patrick A. Leach), when you first see one, you look at it and there are so many parts and depth gauges and nickers and thumbscrews, people get overwhelmed.  But if you spend some time learning how it works, then all of the pieces-parts make sense.

   By the way if you are not familiar with Patrick Leach's website, Google Stanley Blood n Gore and check it out.  He hates the 45 and 55 but there is lots of good info there.

   Good luck with yours!

   David C

    

3. 
   JayS | Oct 29, 2005 03:00pm | #10

   Thanks for the advice.  The troat as I was referring to, it meant the narrow sliver of an opening next to the cutting edge of most planes.  I guess I should have said "mouth".  Anyway when I have tuned up a wooden coffin smoother in the past, the key was to make this mouth narrower by replacing part of the sole with a wear plate, so that shavings are immediately broken as they pass through it, reducing tear out.  On the 45, it looks like a big clamp just holding a chisel against the workpiece.  It seems like it would tear out immediately.

   Jay

4. 
   DCarr10760 | Oct 29, 2005 03:48pm | #11

   Jay,

   Think of it this way, if you are using a well-sharpened drawknife cutting straight-grained stock with the grain, you can get very smooth cuts, with no tearout at all.  Even though the tool has no chipbreaker, no mouth, throat or tonsils!

   Planes without chipbreakers, like most molding planes, hollows, rounds and some bench planes can cut beautifully.  For fine shavings, a sharp iron, narrow-mouth and fine cut is more important than a chipbreaker, in my opinion.  The C & W coffin smoother I mentioned above is set-up bevel down, with no chipbreaker and it performs as well or better than my LN No. 4 smoother. 

   What works best with the 45 is to adjust it to take a very light cut if the grain is tempermental or if you are using a larger beading cutter where the sides are scraping as much as cutting. 

   There's a good article on chipbreaker function on Clark & Williams's website:

   http://www.planemaker.com/articles/dblirn.html

   Best Regards,

   David C

    

5. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Oct 29, 2005 05:55pm | #12

   45s and 55s work fine with sane stock selection and not being greedy with the cut.

   Straight grain stuff is a good idea for mouldings no matter what you're using to cut them with.  Frankly, a piece made with highly figured stock throughout except for the moulding (say Tiger Maple) actually benefits aesthetically from the pattern breakup provided by a tame run of moulding. 

    

2. 
   desertrat | Oct 26, 2005 04:53pm | #2

   I own a 45, and use it occasionally.  They work best on very straight grained wood.  You have to remember that they were developed for the carpenters/joiners that were making wood moulding for homes etc.

   They do enable you to put beads etc. where no router will ever travel, like in the middle of a 6" board.

3. 
   PlaneWood | Oct 29, 2005 05:56am | #8

   I have a 45.  Never used it for any real productive work though.  I only have one blade that I did sharpen up.  I did some trial runs cutting dado's cross grain in an oak board.  I was amazed at how well it did.  I think I could have done it faster with the 45 than with an electric router, considering the set up time of the latter.  Especially with some practice.  It did make a clean 1/2" dado 1/4" deep.  Made several actually since it was so much fun!

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
   PlaneWood

4. 
   Jer | Oct 29, 2005 06:15am | #9

   I have both the 45 and the 55.  Never use 'em.  Too fussy.  They're fun to drag out and look at though.  They really do look cool.

   You're better off with the old single blade wooden moulding planes if you are determined to do this type of thing by hand.  Just start collecting them...or even make them if you have the time (but then again if you had that kind of time you could fuss with the 45). 

   I mostly use my electric router and have quite the collection of bits.  But once in a while if there's not much to plane, it's easier just to grab one of the well tuned wooden planes and feel what it's like to do it the old way.

5. 
   robert1 | Oct 29, 2005 11:46pm | #13

   Buy one and play with it for the education. You'll then get out your router and cut that groove or ogee being thankful that modern science has given us carbide and electricity.

1. 
   JayS | Oct 30, 2005 01:11am | #14

   What do you think is a reasonable price for one with all the cuttersin boxes, in good condition, but no original box for the whole set?

   Jay

1. 
   robert1 | Oct 30, 2005 01:15am | #15

   I have two 45's I bought from eBay. They did not include cutters. The price will depend upon the rarity of the "type" of 45. My "type 4" cost ~$45. The other which is a "type 9" cost ~$55. I also own a modern combination plane whose cutters curiously fit the 45's, so I did not need to buy any cutters, but figure ~$50-75 for the cutters. The prices will depend upon the condition as well as the rarity of the tools. Many cutters were made for the 45. Some were offered as standard equipment, while others were accessories.

2. 
   DCarr10760 | Oct 30, 2005 06:00am | #16

   I got a type 2 or 3 (haven't worked it out yet) complete with all cutters (except the slitter) in the original chestnut box with some old marketing pamphlets for just under $200.00.

   It is essentially unused, nearly all of the plating is intact and good rosewood.  Most of the cutters show little or no use.  At first I thought it was too much money (on Ebay) but then I realized that included in the box was a complete Stanley router plane too!  So I bought it.

   Odd thing was that it came with no rods at all!  Fortunately I have a reasonably well equipped machine shop at my disposal, so making rods was no problem.

   So for a 45 in good shape, complete with cutters in the original box you can expect to pay $150.00 - $200.00.

   But for the plane alone without cutters, I wouldn't pay more than $50.00 - $75.00.  If it doesn't have all of it's parts it can be quite costly to get them.  I recently lost a bid to get the slitter blade I am missing.  It went for over $20.00.

   Full sets of cutters go for as much as $100.00.

   One thing I recommend is to get a later type with the micro adjustable fence, these were introduced after the turn of the century (maybe 1910 or so).  These are an improvement and make set-up more precise.  Mine doesn't have it and I have to bump and try.

   Best Regards,

   David C

1. 
   JayS | Oct 30, 2005 04:20pm | #17

   I was just curious.  I paid $177 for a 45 with all the cutters and there were two boxes to hold the cutters, but no larger box for the overall plane.  The wood handle and fence are in very good condition.  Sounds like it was in the right ballpark.

   Jay

1. 
   DCarr10760 | Oct 31, 2005 04:13pm | #18

   Jay,

   Sounds like you did fine.

   Don't fret not having a box.  The box for mine is so narrow that the plane with the short rods installed and set-up for beading, (which is what I use it mostly do with it) doesn't close with the plane in it!

   I leave it set up and keep it on a shelf.  Enjoy yours!

   David C