Vintage Walker Turner 6″ Jointer vs Delta 6″ Jointer (New Woodworker Help!)
Hi all.
Looking for some advice. Planning to buy a 6″ jointer. Found two jointers locally and I am trying to decide between the two. Both would require clean up, probably new power cords and likely new knives. I think the bearings and in decent shape on both, the motors run, and the guards are there. They are in rough condition visually, but not too much rust and nothing broken. They might require full restoration and have the motors gone through down the road, but I am just trying to get one up and running for now.
I have been told walker turners were made better. Though they may have proprietary size bearings, and the small belts look harder to get. The Delta is more compact due to it’s shorter depth (not having the motor hanging out at the back) which is good for my tiny work shop. I know there are 6″ jointers with longer beds, however right around 36″ seems like a good size for my tiny garage, and possibly make extension tables when needed. I know there are several other factors to consider such as ease of getting parts, but they each are complete as far as I can tell.
1. Delta 6″ Jointer (Believe the model number is 37-220) I believe these were made in short and long bed versions. I believe the one I’m looking at is the short bed version around 33″ or so.
It is identical to the one in the link: http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=18566
2. Walker Turner 6″ Jointer (Believe the model is P910) The bed is about 36″ Missing the original stand, though one a simple one could be made easily, and having the motor mounted at the back allows for possibly storage under the jointer.
Link:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=11843
Which do you all think is the better jointer performance wise?
Replies
I won't say much about either machine because both were solid enough for what they are, and condition and price could be the deciding factor, although the Delta probably has the edge in parts availability.
I will ask what you are expecting to do with such a machine before sinking any money into either. a 6" jointer with 36" beds has very limited functionality and by the time you buy the machine and recondition it there may have been better options. Adding extension tables to a jointer is not like building an outfeed table for a table saw or extensions for a miter saw, they must be perfectly parallel and co-planer not something I feel can be done with wood.
Thanks for the reply.
Mainly looking to do smaller projects. Possibly a 4' table at one point, but mostly smaller stuff at the moment.
For small projects like boxes and cutting boards you should be fine with such a machine, but one day you probably will find yourself wanting something more substantial if you move on to full sized furniture construction. Just don't sink too much money into them
Thanks for the reply.
Mainly looking to do smaller projects. Possibly a 4' table at one point, but mostly smaller stuff at the moment.
I believe the primary function of a 6" jointer is to convince its owner that they need a wider jointer.
Cheap and easy, go for it. Hard work and time, pass on it. 6"jointers are easy to find because of the above.
Makes sense. I could have purchased a very nice 8" but just don't have the space.
These are both around $75, maybe I could get them for $50. I expect to put at least $50, so not too bad.
I think the Walker Turner is a bit more solid, but the Delta a bit more compact.
Ahhh... if we're only talking $100 go for it. I paid $500 for a used 6" grizzly helical. After it taught me my lesson I sold it for about the same. Even at $100 it will be a cheap lesson, and worth learning.
Okay that makes sense.
Below are the actual images of both. Obviously they are rough visually. I did take a look at the Walker Turner. All the original parts are there. Everything moved fairly smoothly all things considered. Planning to see the Delta tomorrow.
Two more:
Here is an alternate approach:
I assume you either own a thickness planer or plan to purchase one. If so an alternative to a 6" jointer with a 36" bed is using a handplane No. 5 or 5-1/2 to rough flatten one face of the wood so that it no longer rocks or compresses while passing through the thickness planer the opposite face and finally passing the original hand planed face through the thickness planer.
You can purchase a used No. 5 for less than $100 or purchase a new premium No. 5 Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley Veritas for around $350 or anywhere in between. A new hand plane is not required for this task since the face will be run through the thickness planer.
Rob Cosman YouTube: How to Flatten a Board Without a Jointer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke2vNvooe-Y
The advantage to this approach is you'll apply the $100 to a handplane, pick up an important handtool skill, save space in your shop for another tool, not have the task of refurbishing the jointer and quickly realize that you desire a larger jointer.
That's a good idea. I do have a hand plane and have used that method.
All the projects I've done so far are from using other people scrap hardwood, so the time it took to get boards S4S ready was extensive as it was a lot of individual 12-16" pieces.
Thank you all for the advice.
If you don't have a thickness planar, if it were me I'd rather purchase a portable thickness planer than a 6" jointer with a 36" bed and use one of the two Cosman methods. Many have had good success with the DeWalt DW735.
A board 12" in length is probably about the minimum length that you can safely run over the jointer or through a planar. Check manual for the machine or similar online for actual specifications.
Yes I do have a thickness planer. And yep I read about the 12" length. Thanks for the reminder.
It seems best to wait for a longer jointer. What is a good length then for 6" jointer?
I think the rule of thumb for length of planar bed is at least one half the length of the board that you plan to flatten. The reason being the the board rides on the high spots so twice the length is the maximum that can be flattened.
As others have said above an 8" planar is usually the sweet spot for planar size between cost, size and functionality tradeoff.
There is no good length for a 6" jointer. While yes, the length of the bed of the 2 machines is limiting, the width is as well. If you think about the purpose of a jointer; to create one flat face and one edge square to it you will understand. When you start buying hardwood you will seldom find boards under 6" wide most will be 7-10" making even an 8" jointer questionable in my opinion. I think the sweet zone for a jointer is actually 12" which used to be out of the question for most home shops, but with the advent of the more affordable combination machines it is closer to the realm of the possible for many. In the space of an 8" jointer you can have a 12" jointer/planer and for not much more money than buying an 8" jointer.
I know this is a long way from where you started with those 2 machines which if you can get them up and running for less than $100-150 and a lot of sweat equity might be an okay as an introduction into using a jointer for small work, but if you are going to take this hobby to the next level and build larger pieces it is something to consider.
I'm going to second what Gary wrote above. A thickness planer is essential. A jointer isn't necessary. Avoid twisted boards at the lumber yard, and you can pretty much run everything straight through the thickness planer. Every once in a while I knock off a high corner with a jack plane first. But hand pick your boards, and you skip the jointer. It couldn't be simpler. Edges come off the table saw after thicknessing.
I use the widest boards I can find for projects, and I would find a 6 inch machine doing nothing but gathering dust. And taking up valuable space in a tiny crowded shop.
A lot of great advice above about the tool requirements. Here is a couple of good examples of how to layout a board for grain selection (flat sawn, rift sawn and quarter sawn).
FWW Mike Pekovich: "Single Board Side Table: Board Layout and Rough-Cutting Building a side table from a single board requires a thorough understanding of wood grain."
https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/tables-and-desks/episode-1-board-layout-and-rough-cutting
FWW Tim Rousseau: "Build a Small Cabinet - Build a Frame"
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2012/08/07/build-a-frame
If you choose grain selection for parts as Mike and Tim have shown you wind up with narrower parts to run through the jointer for rough milling. Also notice how the bandsaw was used to rip the boards as the second step in the milling process.
I realize that this is a long way from where your simple question started, but having the knowledge to make an informed decision is very valuable.
Availability of parts will be difficult for either machine and you'll probably end up tearing down and cleaning, at the very least,whichever one you buy. Deltas were more common but Walker Turner was also owned by Rockwell. Walker Turner machinery could be serviced by Rockwell/Delta at least until they sold out to make Spaceshuttles. Bearings usually aren't a problem to replace. Tool manufactures usually didn't make their own bearings. Well, except for Rockwell, they made bearings long before they made machinery and owned Timken. So Rockwell / Delta purchased their bearings from Rockwell. I had a Walker Turner bandsaw and the bearings in that were standard sizes. For replacement parts there are vintage machinery sites and forums and ebay. Delta though it still sort of exists, some Hong Kong group owns it now ,no longer supports older Delta machinery. Personally, I would pick the one that has the best casting and fit and finish. I'd expect that to be the Walker Turner. But then the Delta has the nice base and wheels and looks like maybe it's been in use recently. It might be that you can just turn it on and use it. Use it and make many things until you figure out that anything less than a 20" jointer with a 18' bed is a waste of time! You will definitely get your $75 out of it!
Thanks everyone for the help! Okay right on, makes sense.
I looked at the Delta this morning quickly. Looked to be in working order. The gentleman walked me through it. He had used it here and there for the past five years.
He actually happened to have the original belt guard. It was definitely rougher in person, granted working, and the tables and fence moved smoothly. Plus all original parts, knobs, gib screws and such were there.
It ran a bit noisier than the Walker Turner. Looked to have a bit of wobble or vibration in the belt or lower pulley. He said he switched the top pulley from 2" to 1" because the original broke and he "wanted it to run at a higher speed." That might need to be changed back at some point but not a big deal. I should have pulled the belt off to check the motor bearings and cutterhead bearings, but didn't think of it.
The bed/fence wasn't perfectly clean polished iron. Instead it looked dark brown, a bit like rust under a coat of oil or sealant, but not too pitted or anything. The cutterhead also looked similar/had some rust on it. Hopefully the knife screws are not seized. The fence has a bit slop when it is loose or it is a bit more clumsy to adjust than the Walker Turner, but again not a huge deal.
I definitely understand about the short bed vs long bed after seeing it in person. That's the main reason I didn't take it then and there. I could wait for a long bed, or get a newer Jet or Delta or Ridgid etc. No room for an 8" model though. I think either machine will suffice for now after researching and reading everyones' comments. It's just to get going anyways and learn a tool.
I was mainly a bit apprehensive on starting out with an older machine. Mainly because I'm concerned about cutterhead wear. Not sure if the screws/portion holding the knives can wear out, as that seems like something that can't be checked easily. Probably overthinking this all.
Anyways, I will see which one is still available tomorrow and likely grab one.
Any votes?
MY2109, That's great that you are finally close to making the decision / purchase.
I'm not sure that I have enough infomation to make an informed "vote" but if it were me I'd choose the best running machine, in the best operational condition with its original parts.
Rollie Johnson is the FWW machine contributor. Here is an article that has checklists for a used Jointer purchase.
FWW "Used Machines Can Be a Steal - Learn how to avoid lemons, and you’ll get serious power and capacity for less money"
By Roland Johnson
https://www.finewoodworking.com/membership/pdf/23930/011218058.pdf
https://www.finewoodworking.com/2011/02/10/used-machines-can-be-a-steal
There are other articles and videos in FWW by Rollie, John White and Matt Wajda on the topic of setting up, tuning and restoring jointers.
There are also articles and videos in FWW about the proper safety operation of jointers and how to mill lumber.
Best of luck and thank you for your original post.
P.S. Rollie references OWWM.org (Old Wood Working Machines) as a resource in his article.
Here are the search links on the Walker Turner P910 and Delta 37-220
https://owwm.org/search.php?keywords=Walker+Turner+6%E2%80%B3+Jointer+P910
https://owwm.org/search.php?keywords=Delta+6%E2%80%B3+Jointer+37-220
Awesome!
I would like to comment on the oft stated idea that jointers can only straighten pieces of wood that are no more than half the bed length long. I am fortunate to have 8"x6' and 24"x6' jointers. I use the 8" whenever I can, as sharpening the knives is so much easier. I routinely straighten the edges of 9' long boards with either machine. The trick is to make sure that the convex side is down, so that you are taking wood off each end. When it finally cuts cleanly thru the middle section, you are done. There are times when I want a sprung joint for glue-up, in which case I use the jointer to do most of the work, and then do the finishing touches with my jointer plane to get the amount of spring (concavity) that I want for the glue-up. With a 6"x36" jointer (like the one I started with), you can do a lot of work, and refine with a plane as needed.
JHarveyB, Very nice jointers!
I agree. If I wasn’t clear a jointer (or a hand plane for that matter) can joint a board up to twice the length of the jointer (or hand plane) bed. So your 6’ jointer could joint a board up to 12’ long using the method that you have described.
In fact, I've done that. Had to open a strategically placed window to do over 10', but it works. The only issue is if the board/plank gets so heavy that it is hard to keep the end on the table.
I'd buy both. At $50 each you could easily resell one or the other and you would be sure to end up a winner. Tearing them down and rebuilding is a great learning experience. My jointer, lathe, 2x drill presses, band saw, belt/disk sander, and scroll saw are all vintage. The only new stationary machines I have are a Sawstop PCS and Dewalt planer.
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