I believe I don’t have the skills, tools and possibly patience to build a violin from scratch so am looking to see what kits are available. As even a kit is big time investment for me my main question is how good is the sound likely to be?
I’ve rented violins and been satisfied with sound from ones that normally retail around $800 -but have been delighted with the sound from instruments I have tried out costing 2-3 times this.
Does a $199.99 Grizzly or a $149 stewmac.com or something else out there in a kit have the potential to sound like a $2000 or $3000 violin?
Gary
“Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!” -Goethe
Replies
You need to get yourself to the musical instrument makers' forum, here:
http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX
The bottom line on kits is that you'll generally get a good, not great instrument, but you'll learn a lot from the experience. Many elect to go this route as a stepping stone on the way to building their own from scratch.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Thank you -I was at a loss as where to look
It makes sense that the material selection in a kit won't yield stellar results, but I won't even try if there's no chance of getting halway decent results
Gary"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!" -Goethe
Try to watch "Handmade music" on the DIY channel. A guy by the name of Doodlebacker (SP) makes guitars and mandolins and is very well regarded in the Luthire(SP) circle. You'll gain much insight.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
"a guy by the name of Doodlebacker"
Well, close. <G> That would be Lynn Dudenbostel - a first-rate luthier.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Geee I did have the Program title correct, and did put (SP) behind the name ;- )Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Now that (DIY channel Handmade Music Chicago School of Violin Making) is a totally great website - right on the money for my needs
Much appreciated
Gary"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!" -Goethe
i like this one better that mimf.
http://www.maestronet.com
some seriously top rate luthiers lurk the forums there. michael darnton is one.
http://www.darntonviolins.com
enjoy the eye candy and tips on both sites.
dave
That Darnton site is impressive
Thanks for sharing
I was at the local WoodCraft store a few weeks back and they have acoustic guitar kits, with two examples on display. One sounded better than the other and I'm sure the store's acoustics had a lot to do with the way it sounded but it really wasn't bad at all. I was actually going by how the notes felt more but the action was decent, the feel was good and someone could do a whole lot worse for more money. I've been playing guitar for 40 years and worked in a music store, dealing in Martin, Guild, Gibson (new, old and vintage) and other brands, with all kinds of used instruments, as well as setup/repairs. This thing wasn't bad.
The thing about instruments is that the materials need to resonate in a particular way in order to sound good or great. Excessive bracing and gluing the crap out of it just makes it stiffer and kills the sound. Follow any directions and ask lots of questions if you buy a kit. Also, look at some really expensive instruments before you decide on a kit- look at the grain of the wood- it's very important, and see if the grain orientation of the kit is close. It won't sound the same because the maker of the pricey one knew what they were listening for but over time, you'll learn about what they were trying to achieve. Unfortunately, there are a lot of things that will be impossible to see but I think you know what I'm getting at.
Sphere- little help here?
Perhaps I will be lucky enough to hand select a kit from a handful and pick out best grain -that is once I know what to look for.
As MikeHennessy stated above building could be a good experience and possible stepping stone to making one from scratch.
Gary"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!" -Goethe
The top and back should be quartersawn spruce. The sides are usually maple. Neck- maple, fingerboard- ebony, tuning pegs- ebony, tailpiece- ebony. A lot of violin parts are really easy to buy at a good music store (bridge, tone post, tuning pegs and tailpiece. Bows can be extremely expensive, too. Go to DIY.com and look for the 'Handmade Music' episodes when they were in Chicago at the violin making school.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
A book that I would highly recommend is "The Art of Violin Making" by a guy named Courtnall. Everything you need to know. Read it before you buy andything else and make sure you really want to do this. You would do much better to select the pieces individually from a luthier supply store that to build from a kit. http://www.internationalluthiers.com/ is one of many. i use them because they are semi-close to where I live and will let me personally pick out my blanks.Will a $150 kit violin sound good? No, but it will be playable and get you started and finished quicker if that is the route you want to take. You will have to take the back and top off (if they are already attached) and regraduate both. All explained in "The Art". Have fun, work carefully, ask a lot of questions on the luthier forums and keep us informed on your progress.Dave
Edited 12/6/2006 11:37 am ET by dstonner
I heartily second dstonner's recommendation. The Art of Violin Making is an outstanding resource. It's a little pricey, but if you look at it as a textbook (which it definitely can be considered), it's reasonable.
Well thank you what you have suggested makes a lot of sense. I was looking at "saving" on a cheaper book and now realize a lack of wisdom in that. My ears are better skilled than my woodworking I would be disappointed not to get a reasonable sounding outcome.
I am a hour N.E. of Sacramento Calif and will look for a local supppier - once I have read the book that is -which I see my wife just already ordered
Thank you again
Gary"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!" -Goethe
here is a very good photo essay of this guy's very first violin. he also has a "making of" for his second violin. excellent photos of EVERY step of the way. this guy is a frequent poster on the Maestronet "pegbox" forum. http://z11.invisionfree.com/Stringed_Instruments/index.php?showtopic=16dave
I just spent 3-4 hours looking over Matt Welsh's photo essay - thanks for providing the link! Pretty fascinating that after all that work and with some prior experience in building instruments the result does not appear to as finished as one would have hoped. That was bold of him to experiment with finishes as he did.
There seems to be some value in building a basic kit simply to get the experience. For the effort it takes building from scratch I would want a high level of confidence that the sound would be at least as good as the better $2500 violins I have heard.
gary"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!" -Goethe
This is a follow up on my previous response. Building a kit should be considered only as step 1 on the long road of learning how to build a good instrument. Luthiers take years to develop the knowledge and skill to build really nice or great instruments. I doubt that even Stradivarius made a good violin on his first try. If you are simply trying to save $$ by building, it won't happen -- at least not on the first kit or the first several scratch-built instruments. Heck, you may need to spend the difference in price just in tools, not to mention time -- I know that's true in guitar making. So, if you want to learn about how instruments are built, go for it and enjoy the journey. If you simply want to save money, it won't happen. If you are trying to "save money", get a coffee can and "save money" by stashing your change and small bills for a year or two and pop for the higher-priced violin.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Well said thanks for covering that point. A big part of it for me is to deepen the appreciation I have of music in particular the violin and in particular my being able to make and play that music. I will only ever be a hobbiest but I am looking into not having that stop me. In placing the bar (for now? -it may need to lowered!) at creating the quality of sound I have heard and liked on some $2500 violins I am not thinking my effort could ever equate to what a luthier accomplishes. (Un)Fortunately there are too many other things I enjoy doing to be that committed to violin making.
Just learning to play the violin recently in my late 40's enormously increased my appreciation of the music. It is this exploration that seeing Grizzly advertise $199.99 kit violins is re-ignited.
Gary ConwayGrass Valley, CA"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!" -Goethe
That link to Matt's weblog was a very inspirational experience, especially that he's only 21 years old. I have never given more than a passing thought to musical instruments because other than tapping my fingers I have no musical talent.Now I may.John
Agreed ... I was riveted by the process and the numerous photo's. That Matt threw a finishing brush at his creation in frustration - cracking it in 3 or more places -but continued with photos and naration is pretty great. All I wanted to know was what it sounded like -I missed not get more 'story' on that outcome.
I looked closer at the stewmac.com violin kit. The basic kit is $150, by the time you add a bow, case, finishing and tools including a $40 reamer that gets used for a few minutes before being retired until the next violin (!) it adds up to $400-$500. Quite a good deal for the experience I think. I once built an oscilloscope from a kit; it also cost $400 and took about 80 hours to assemble: I figure the $5 per hour in entertainment value alone was a steal.
Gary
"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!" -Goethe
I have zero interest in building violins; but I have always regarded violin making to be the apex of woodworking. I applaud and admire your spirit. Building a violin, even from a cheap kit, would be a wonderful experience. And from what I've read in your comments, it may well light the fire that will lead you much further into the craft. Good luck.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Thank you John. It is an exciting exploration into woodworking and music for me. With me not being the finest woodworker (understated!) taking on a violin even from a kit is almost laughable. It will require a complete turnaround from how-fast-can-I-build-this ...to how well can I build this.
1910- ... I applaud you sir!
Gary Conway 1956-"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!" -Goethe
I know you were just joking, but your willingness to undertake this project is not "laughable" in any way. Like I said before, I admire your gumption, and from what I can intuit about you, I have this suspicion that the exercise will turn out to be a very rewarding experience.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Sounds cool, please post your results.
I had the good fortune to spend a few weeks working with a luthier, and what I learned in that time goes thus:
The MOST critical component to a great violin is PERFECTION. every joint must be as tight and seamless as possible. The sound post must fit perfectly. The bridge must be thin and well cut... and on and on. The whole thing has to vibrate like one piece of wood, not a lot of little pieces. You must carefully measure the top and back to achieve perfect thickness and curvature. Little things can matter a LOT.
my boss spent alomst a year making his first violin, which easily sounds like $50,000.
One thing he has done is to purchase well made chinese instruments a low prices and tune them properly before selling them at much higher prices. He has also taken broken (nearly smashed) violins and rebuilt them to sound better than they ever did before. So part of the message is, if you have the skills and patience and time to assemble an instument yourself, it can absolutly sound better than a store bought $800 violin. The wood is also critical. I would seriouly examine what comes in those kits... bad wood won't sound good with all the time and skill in the world.
as an option, I would consider looking at a chinese violin... a few careful improvements and you can make an $800 purchase sound like $2500... but you have to know what you are doing.
I hope you find some of this helpful... the reward of playing an instrument that you made yourself is truly amazing.
good luck
vincent
Upgrading a chinese violin sounds an interesting option. I'm of course realizing how much there is to learn as I delve into this. Patience, careful planning, doing everything 'perfectly' - these historically are not my strong points!
Having a great sounding violin plus it being one that I built is VERY appealing, but it is becoming clear that I will need to enjoy the unforgiving detail and perfection of the process of building something like a violin if I am going to make it to the end product.
-thanks
Gary"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!" -Goethe
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