I finally finished my new shop. It’s a metal pole barn on the outside with a concrete floor. The bench area will have a hardwood floor very soon. I just finished the electric and insulation. I want to have a solid, sturdy wood type product on the wall, where no mollies would be required to hang stuff. Drywall is definately out!! I have 12 foot high ceilings. The ceiling will be high gloss white steel panels, for light reflective quality. I can’t put them up until the walls are up, because the fit into a J channel around the perimeter of the top of the finished walls.
I’ve been thinking about 3/4″ maple plywood panelling, but would love to hear anyones thoughts before I spend that much money. Up to this point, I’ve spent a mint on this shop, and while I don’t want to skimp now, I also want to hear some other great ideas before I proceed.
Thanks, and I’ll be looking forward to your ideas.
Jeff
Replies
I sheetrocked my shop, and then made 2' X 4' birch ply panels (since Birch is available in my area for $30-35/sheet). I varnished them, screwed them into the studs, and separated the panels with 1" spacers painted black.
I used magnetic tool holders, special holders I made myself, with the rest of the tools hung on nails, which I just pound into the panels. I don't worry about the holes left when I move stuff around.
They make for a spiffy looking shop, and the panels are great functionally.
Nikkiwood
I was thinking of something very similar to what you are talking about. Thanks for the reinforcement.
Jeff
Jeff,
I understand the desire for wooden walls in a shop. However, there are some merits to drwall. Economics are an obvious advantage. Painted white, drywall will make for a brighter shop, which is very important and becomes more significant as Father Time catches up with us. As far as hanging things on the wall, with a pole barn you will have to install horizontal backing for whatever material you use for the wall. Plan ahead for appropriate "hanging heights", and/or use fairly wide (2x8, 2x10) for your backing.
If you are set on some type of wood, I would suggest something inexpensive like roughsawn hemlock installed vertically. If you wanted to work a little bit, you could shiplap it
Cheers
Kyle
Edited 3/13/2005 3:05 pm ET by Kyle
Kyle,
The shop was bookshelved with 2x6's every 2 feet horizontally (a redundancy, sorry.)
The ceiling will be gloss white, and whatever I do use on the walls, it won't be dark. Either light maple or birch, or something painted white. I have several shop made tool boxes for different stations by my bandsaw, drill press, shaper, etc... and those are all finished cabinets. I am working on a design right now for a large tool display cabinet for my very large collection of hand tools. Drywall is really not something that I want.
Thanks for your reply.
Jeff
I don't know your climate, but if you didn't put a vapor barrier under the concrete, it would be a very good idea to seal it with paint.
Re: insulation. If you used corrigated steel siding, did you seal up all the holes at the bottom? Mice love to come up through those and borrow in the insulation.
Speaking from experience ...
Barry
My other business is as a concrete contractor. We did it right, and the perimeter of the building is sealed with a 2 part urethane sealer (a lot like a caulk, only tougher.)
I live in horse country, with large open areas, and the mice, gophers, and other critters are plentiful. The hawks and falcons are the fattest I've ever seen, lol. The insulation is R19 walls, R30 ceiling, both with paper backed vapor barrier.
Thanks for your input. Do you have any good ideas for the walls besides what's been said here.
Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff,
I finished my shop last fall. I put 1/2" floor underlayment plywood on my walls. It looks nice because of the rotary cut fir/pine and because it is underlayment, it is very smooth. Plus, it is a lot less than maple ply. I left mine unfinished for right now, though I might apply a shellac to it just so the dust comes off easier. I'm sure it would take a paint coat also. I put up the ply on the walls for the same reason that you are, I wanted to be able to hang stuff anywhere. Hope it helps.
Eric
What's your objection to drywall? It's fast, cheap, and when painted -- great for reflecting light. Have you thought about running French cleats around the enite shop? These could be used to hand panels, as well as cabinets. With these cleats you can move stuff around to your heart's content.
I put 1/2 inch CDX on mine.
I second the 1/2" cdx on the walls. A coat or two of prime and a cost of paint looks pretty good, but the knots have bleed through. At the time, sheeting was going for $24 per sheets for half inch CDX and I bought from a local mill at around $17-$19. I bought some a few months ago and paid $13 for 1/2" and $17 for 3/4"
Even painted, CDX can look bad. There can be small areas of delamination that create shadows.
Personally, I think OSB looks better. You can paint it; I was in a "trendy" restaurant a few weeks ago where they used varnished OSB on the walls!
If you want the "no-knot" wood look, "shop plywood"; i.e., not rated for structural use, is usually a bit cheaper than rated stuff.
CDX or OSB will do the job, but to my eye it looks crappy -- so in the end it is an aesthetic decision. I spend a lot of time in my shop , and I feel good if it is really pleasant. Besides, I like the way a potential customer's jaw drops when they walk in.
I Used 1/2" osb sheathing, nailed it on, painted it white. Vapor barrior on walls to eliminate drafts at seams. REflects light along with the drywall ceiling. No issues after 2-1/2 years. Hang anything anywhere.
Bill
I second the 1/2" sheets. They will be considerably lighter to instal. I don't like some osb though. It's too chunky for my taste. Maybe some board like low or medium density fiber board.
Whatever you put on the walls, paint it white! The amount of available light is really increased by painting the walls white.
Whatever materal you use should be painted with a flat white paint, not gloss. The flat paint will provide better diffusion of light and eliminate reflections that can be distracting. I'd also use a flat white surface for the ceiling panels if you have the option.
Jheath,
I used 1/2" OSB and painted it white. I screwed the sheets up so I could take them down if I needed to add or maintain plumbing or wiring. I like the result. I do wish I had tiled or at least painted the floor prior to moving in tools. Just a thought.
JHeah
I will be moving into my new shop by the end ot this week. It is a total of 2300 square feet, 1500 on ground floor and 800 upstairs. I put 3/4 inch plywood on the two walls that would be used for hanging then finished out the whole shop in drywall painted a soft white. The shop has a clean finished look with two solid walls for hanging anything I want.
Dale
You know, you still didn't build it big enough ;~}
I got knotty white pine for 45 cents a BF, all 12" wide and 10 ft long at a local mill. Stickered it for a year, surfaced and installed vertically. I love going to work in it, it still smells great after 5 years.
are you willing to go outside the normal? Are you willing to do a little extra work for something really special?
Here's my solution to walls,
I have a the local sawmill save me their thins.. You see mother nature is careless she never makes trees that are exactly the correct diameter thus there is always an odd slice of wood in every log they mill. They call them thins locally Nothing wrong with them except they aren't the proper 1 inch thickness. maybe they're 7/8ths thick or just 3/4 or even 1/4 I get a whole pickup full of them for just $20.00 cherry,oak, maple, black walnut etc.. (normally they just get tossed into the grinder and sold as mulch)
I bring them home, sticker them up to dry, and then when they get around 15% moisture I run them thru the planner and try to standardize thickness. that is everything over 3/4 becomes 3/4 everything over 1/2 becomes a 1/2 everything,,.. well you should get the idea..I only plane one side because who cares what the back side looks like. I do select which side to feature though I tend to prefer knots and other real sort of character since the last thing I want is to look like some cheap tacked up plywood siding..
Who cares how thick they are as long as they are all the same.. for example one wall has 3/4 inch wood while another wall is 1/2 inch thick. so far certain areas have all cherry while other areas are hard maple.
In some rooms I run the edges past the shaper and put a tongue and grove on them while other areas are just run over the jointer and edge glued.. I can ship lap or do all sorts of creative things and my cost for solid hardwood is about a nickle a sq.ft. Sheetrock is much more expensive! (plus how much pride can you take in working with that stuff?)
drying time varies depending on if it's inside or outside & what time of year and what kinda wood. and how thick the wood is..
I put some 3/8ths cherry up on the ceiling that I dried indoors for a week . a chunk of 7/8ths hard maple dried outside could take a year to get down to 15%
This isn't fine furnature so anything less than 19% moisture is fine..
Frenchy
That is a very intrigueing idea. The only two drawbacks for me would be the waiting time for drying the boards, as well as the fact that I'd need quite a bit. The shop is 36 x 45, with 12 foot ceiling. 3600 square feet of wall and ceiling space. Maybe your idea would be great for 1 or 2 sections of wall where my bench is. Shiplapping certainly would solve the expansion and contraction problem.
Thanks,
Jeff
you could put it up green if you ship lap it. or you could do board and batten approach.. depends ion how thick you want the boards to be, Some wood will be dry enough in a week if the place is heated..
I'll grant you it's time consumming but I'm always willing to trade time for money especially when I get a far superior result..
Frenchy
This is my 3rd and probably last shop. The other 2 were converted spaces, while this was constructed new for this purpose. I'm definately wanting to have it look as great as I possibly can. This is why drywall is out for me. I want some sort of wood on at least half the space, and your idea is growing on me. The only mills close to me are little guys with woodmizer type outfits, so I'll have to check with them to see what I can get. All the stock I have, and it's plentiful, is for furniture. I doubt I'll be able to find stock that is 12 feet long for this, so I'll have to figure out how to make the tops of the walls look cool, maybe with panelling or something. As far as priorities go,
1.) Looks great
2.) Can be installed in a relatively reasonable amount of time.
3.) Expense, within reason $2/square foot or less
Thanks, and keep sending me ideas.
Jeff
Just a thought here....
I like Frenchy's idea with the horizontal thins ( Shiplapped not board & batten ) Why not use a run of whatever type of ply makes $ sense to create a 4' high wainscot / crash barrier at the bottom and go wood up to the cieling ? IE: all you need then are 8' lengths. The bottom 4' is usually covered with stuff anyway. The wainscot would have a nice aesthetic in a workshop sort of way. Maybe a 4" cap as a shelf for "flat space abuse".
On a hill by the harbour
This was for JHeath not Kent. (must have scrolled through the names w/o realizing it)
At some point you are going to want to hang something (and probably many somethings) on the wall. Why not make it easy on yourself and make the inside surface of your shop from Slotboard like is used in almost every store in America. You can paint it whatever color you want to keep the brightness level up. Slot board has several advantages over pegboard in that it is a lot thicker and when the write hanger hardware is used is nicer looking. In addition you can easily move things around on the slotboard by just sliding them. There are some companies that make metal inserts for the slots in case you are hanging really heavy items.
You can pick up slot board from retail store supply companies. Next time you are in HD or Lowes, ask them where they get there hardware for slotboards.
You can even pick some up from stores going out of business and get it fairly cheap!
HTH
Edited 3/14/2005 2:09 pm ET by PAT
Pat
Thanks for the thought, but I had that in my old shop, and am trying to upgrade from there. I prefer to build cabinets for storage vs. hanging things on metal hooks, solely for aesthetic reasons.
Jeff
I know you're in Minnesota, and I am too. Would you care to divulge any of your lumber mill sources?I had a great source down near Winona years ago (on the WI side of the river). Guy would take individual trees from farm properties, mill it, dry it with a solar kiln. His stuff was alawys terrific, and sometimes unusual -- Mulberry, Black Locust, etc. Unfortunately, he went out of business.
Nikkiwood,
Sure glad to, It's Johnson brothers logging on hwy 52 just south of Cannon Falls on the west side of the highway.
If you want to great the really great deals you'll need to establish a relationship with them.. feel free to mention my name. I prefer dealing with Connie Johnson since he's been around so long he just seems easier to deal with.. His son Dan isn't quite as ready to give the great deals and if Seth is there I just try to find either Connie or Dan.. Seth is a great kid but sometimes not the best one to work with.. He sometimes has unrealistic opinions on the value of wood.
Now maybe it's just I'm just a cranky ol' basturd I get along with older people better so your experiance may differ, objects in mirror are closer than they appear, close cover before striking,.....
If you want wood that's kiln dried go up to their kiln in Cannon Falls but don't expect the great deals.. The kiln does select out the really unique woods and price accordingly, if you want unique wood from the sawmill you need to cultivate Dan to keep an eye out for you and then buy whatever he offers.. Don't turn him down or he'll lose interest and it'll be a real long time before he sorts out special pieces again for you..
Actually I think I know the guy you are talking about.. I met him a few times...
frenchy,Thanks very much. I don't get down to that area (or close to it) very often, but I will take a drive down that way if spring ever gets here. I am especially grateful for the inside info on who's who.I don't supose you have a phone number or address handy do you? Is it called JOHNSON BROTHERS LUMBER?
Just finished a similar shop; wood framed pole barn on concrete, and I chose 1/2" b/c plywood, luckily stumbled onto a load of "shop cutting panels" at half the going price! Where I wanted substantial racks, I added 2x6 backers. Mounted all the electrical in handyboxes along the sides of the poles, with wiring behind the ply, of course. I fastened it all with drywall screws so I can take any or all of it down for whatever reason. 18' x 26' with 8' sidewalls, twelve eight foot twin fluorescent lights (with pull string canopy switches on each) installed above the truss line, and two cheapy ceiling fans. 35 years in double car garages and now I can step up to this .... within 6 years of retirement. Paint it white! I chose oil base gloss white over white "kilz" primer. Flat paint tends to have enough "tooth" that dust and lint collect on it like a magnet, and when you vacuum flat walls, they always show "tracks". The hard gloss finish sheds the dust and reflects ALL the light. Like another mentioned, I wish I could have painted the floor a light grey, but had to get the machinery inside. Will wait for summer and do a third or half at a time. Good luck!
John in Texas
Ah yes ... go to the grizzly website and "build your dream shop" .... it's a big help and a very well designed tool in itself!
1/2" T-111 panels work well. Sand them smooth and put a finish on them to help with brightness/dust.
--Rob
Jeff,
I saw some C2 grade 3/4" white birch sheets (pretty clear) at OWL hardwood in DesPlaines. They are selling them for $29.88 each. With a volume discount of 15% you could get this done within reason.
How about, 36"x36" panels in a T-square grid? The cut-offs could be used to build those cabinets!
Good luck! Some day I'd like to see your shop, when it's worn in!
George
sounds like a bargain.Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Yeah, one time only. OWL isn't known for bargains.
George
I'm going there Thursday. I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up.
You're always welcome at my shop, but let me get the dress on her first, o.k. lol.
Jeff
I'm with Bill - 1/2" OSB painted white. Cheapest white paint I could locate and buy. OSB is, around here, the cheapest wood sheet product available. Holds screws well (1/2" ain't all that good with nails, though) and I certainly don't have any concerns about taking stuff down and putting it somewhere else. In my shop, the walls are only there to keep out the bad weather. If I were in Hawaii I wouldn't bother with walls at all (grin).
Of course I'd be forever looking for all the tools that are how hanging on the walls!
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Jeff-I can assume the HVAC is in, right? If you want to do birch or maple, why not use 4'x8' sheets? Maybe you could stand them upright with a matching or contrasting strip between. Then you could use FRP(Fiberglas Reinforced Panels) above those, oriented horizontally with the vertical joints in line with every other joint on the wall. The shop would definitely be bright enough with that at the top. FRP can be bought in white, almond and other colors. You can also buy plywood with a thin plastic sheet or melamine on top. Either would be really easy to clean. Whoever you buy plywood from should have something you may like if they also sell laminate.Did you finish those bookcases? How did they turn out?Are you still interested in selling some of the maple we had talked about when I was there fro the oak?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
highfigh
Good to hear from you. The library is under way, and has turned into a much bigger project. Now, I'm building 3 tables for their family room, which is where the library wall is (it's actually their great room, as they also have a seperate family room, big house), a new kitchen table, and 8 chairs, all maple. I'm pretty sure I'll have some left over. I've taken that whole stack down out of my wood loft. You should see the figure on a lot of that maple, OUTSTANDING!! I won't be done for a couple of months, so I'll keep you posted if any is left over. I should have a couple hundred bf or so left.
As far as the shop goes, HVAC is ordered. I went with a radiant tube heater down the center of the shop that one of the guys here recommended. I actually got to see it in action, as the local electrical supply store, Interstate Electric, has the exact same unit. Works, in their words, fantastic. Should be here in a week or two.
I've decided that I really want something fantastic for the walls on my shop. So, I'm going to keep listening to the ideas here for a week or so, or until the fine folks here stop sending them. Right now, its a toss up between 3/4 inch maple plywood, or Frenchy's idea about solid wood boards, if I can get enough. I think I'd T&G them with a bead on the shaper. That would probably look great.
Talk to you soon, and thanks for your input.
Jeff
You could use plywood backing within the walls where you plan to hang items and then apply drywall. I think you would save $$$ because you would'nt have to go floor to ceiling plywood.
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