I am sure I read the answer to this recently, but in my advancing age I have forgotten where. I want to know how best to finish a walnut gun stock. Would a coat of linseed or tung oil followed by several coats of oil-varnish-mineral spirits mix give sufficient protection for the outdoorsman/hunter who might get the stock wet from snow or rain? What did the older gunsmiths use that resulted in such a deep rich reddish brown? Thanks!
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Replies
John: Good luck on your project. I own many hunting rifles and there appear to be several different finishes. Remington tends to put on a very hard and glossy finish on some guns and flat on others. Seems like lacquer, but could be varnish. You may want to give them a shout. They are based in Ilion, NY.
The other idea is to call Dunn's Sporting Goods or another custom gunmaker and see what they do. (see the internet)
John, I asked this question a while back and our resident Knothead gunstock maker, Michael, posted some great info. Can't remember what I called the thread, but I bet a search would bring it up. I check too.
John,
Are you trying to restore a Winchester by any chance? They used a finish with red in it (a glaze as we would know it), you can buy that stuff from http://www.brownells.com.
If your just looking to get a nice stock that is fairly waterproof, use anything but linseed oil. It looks great but does not resist water much at all. Your mix sounds fine, I would go with that, if you really want it darker, you might use some analine dye.
Michael
I had pretty good results with Linspeed.
http://www.huntamerica.com/linspeed/
Linspeed is a shortcut. Highly polymerized linseed oil. You can get similar results with multiple coats of regular boiled linseed oil.
Tru-oil is very good. Plain tung does not build as much or gloss too well. Linseed can darken and takes a long time. They don't give as much protection as a varnish, but a lot of really fine firearms are oiled. The cheapest are most always varnished. All will protect sufficiently, assuming you clean after you get back from the field. Take off all the metal parts. Rub on some oil and let stand 5 minutes, rub off ALL the oil. Particularly around the action bedding. It needs to be protected, but buildup will make reassembly difficult. Repeat once a day for as long as you can stand it. 3 or 4 times at least. Wait a week or two, keeping the stock in a warm place. Buff with a heavy cloth, like denim, and get rid of any oil that came back to the surface and hardened. I never use steel wool. If you need to, use scotchbrite to rub down any rough spots, then oil again.
As for color, there are a million tricks. Color is generally not in the finish, but on or in the wood. Also, there's no substitute for age. I'd not try and mess with the color at this point, just oil what you have. Building a new one, you can use acids, ammonia, natural and synthetic dyes, steam, all sorts of stuff.
Thanks all for your collective input. Robbie: I'll call Winchester to see what they do, assuming they will tell me. Michael, no it is not a Winchester but thanks for your thoughts. I may try polymerized Tung first to pop the grain, then apply the varnish, tung oil, mineral spirit mix for several coats, if Winchester has no better ideas. Thanks all once again!!!
I just did the search and found the replys you mentioned. Thanks!
John,
As to what the old-time gunsmiths used to get that gorgeous dark reddish brown color: I was lucky enough to see that done at the gunsmith's shop when I visited Colonial Williamsburg a few years ago.
The gunsmith had already coated the wood with the "finish" and had let it dry (IIRC). The stock still looked about like raw wood, but a bit shinier. He put a long iron rod in the forge and heated it to cherry red. He slowly passed the iron up and down over the stock, keeping it two inches or so off the wood. Right before our eyes the stock turned into that beautiful color and finish we all so admire.
Now you're wondering what was the magic substance. I don't remember exactly, but something like "aqua-vittay" sticks in my mind.
IIRC Saint Roy of Underhill writes a very little about this in one of his books. If not, perhaps the gunsmith has his own web-site somewhere. (The Williamsburg site is dedicated to separating people from their money, not to education or information). If none of that pans out, there must be in a history of gun smithing, or the like, that details the process.
Alan
Alan, thanks. What a great lead. I will have fun following up on it and will let you know if I am successful.
John
Many years ago I was fortunate enough to have a friend, a gunsmith named Joseph Schober and he taught me a few things about guns. He finished gunstocks as follows, wipe on all the boiled linseed oil the wood can absorb, let stand 24 hours and repeat, when the wood quits absorbing oil wipe off excess. Mix boiled linseed oil and orange shellac 50/50 and wipe on with a cloth. Let dry 24 hours and buff with 0000 steel wool. Do this until you fill the grain level and lightly buff and put a coat of floor wax.
Joseph used only walnut for gunstocks, he fell the trees himself, split the logs and put the blanks in the top of his barn for two years to air dry. He made most of his parts to repair the guns he took in. He made his own bluing, I had the formula, I don't anymore. The only power tool he had that I remember was a small lathe. He wouldn't let me use sandpaper for anything. To smooth wood or remove old finish I used a broken piece of glass, to clean old bluing off a gun I used a file. To make checkering tools he took a small triangle file,heated the end and bent it, put on a handle and retemper the file. To make a a double checkering tool he took an ice pick, busted the handle off took the temper out of the big end bent it about an inch 30dg and filed a groove down the middle, then cut teeth and retemper.
Joseph came to the USA sometimes in the 30's from Germany, I met him when I was 16 in 1953 he was 65. Now I'm the age he was then and I truly appreciate the time he took to teach me a little about gunsmithing. I can't thank him now but I can pass a little of what he taught me on.
Gods Peace
les
What a great story to pass on. I will try that on small pieces using 1 and 2lb cuts of shellac. My shellac is dewaxed. I'm going to guess his was not. Thanks so much!
Les,
Thanks for the great story. Gunsmiths used to do a lot with wood. If anyone is interested in that sort of stuff, there is a great set of books that has gone DOWN in price due to Ebay.
Modern Gunsmithing by Howe. It is a two volume set that can be had for $30 or so. I paid $100 for my set years ago. It talks about starting with trees and goes on down to how to make various stock finishes from scratch. Also talks about various formula for turning brass colors, home bluing, all sorts of odd stuff.
Another interesting books is called Gunstock Finishing and Car by Newell. It lists natural oils in three catagoriies, hard drying, medium drying and never drying. Lists wierd oils I have never heard of. Pretty interesting reading as well.
Michael
A little sidebar to the Joseph Schober story. When we would blue a gun it was a several step process. Apply a coat of his homemade bluing, let it set overnight and it would rust (unless we had low humidity), wipe off the rust with a cloth, and apply again and repeat until you got the coverage you wanted. You had to be careful not to touch the gun while doing this, usually a stick jammed down barrel was the preferred method to avoid this. Anywhere you touched the gun the blue would not take. 4 to 6 coats was normal. After you got to the point you were satisfied with the coverage we immersed it in boiling sulphur water for a minute or so. This stopped the rusting and set the bluing. If my memory is right he had 17 chemicals in his bluing.
This was in the early 50's he charged $5.00 to reblue a 25 automatic pistol. $7.50 for a shotgun. My neighbor had a old loose 12 gauge, he blued it , made a forearm, refinished the stock and tighten it up for $17.50.
Gods Peace
les
Les,
The process you speak of is an old process and is called "rust bluing. It yields a very dark blue finish that is very beautiful. The modern process is called "hot bluing" and consists of a hot bath of special caustic that you dip the guns into. It yields a nearly black color.
Rust bluing is still used for fine guns and must be used on double barrel shotguns as the ribs are soft soldered on and the hot bluing will destory a double barrel.
I once got professional bluing results by using a concentrated sodium hydroxide (lye) solution. Got the solution boiling hot then dipped the barrel in several times. Don't remember much else now but I remember that the bare steel had to be buffed to a high gloss mirror like finish. Ater lots of hand buffing the barrel turned out beautifully.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
I spoke with one gunsmith from Colonial Williamsburg today. What you observed was an initial coating of a stain made from nitric acid and iron filings over maple stock. Passing the hot iron over it supposedly initiated a reaction of this mixture with the sugar in the maple to give the rich color you observed. He said they did not try this with walnut. He sugggested BLO lightly then several coats of dewaxed 1 lb shellac, let it dry for 1 month to cure fully then coat with wax for a more matte finish. thanks again for the leed.
John,
What was this finish called?
If I was working on any part of a gun I would believe everything a Williamsburg gunsmith had to say. Their work is beautiful, technically precise and historically accurate.
Alan
I love gun sports and this happens to be my second hobby after DIY woodworking crafts. Following my passion for woodworking, I have put up a blog reviewing some of the very best finishes in the market for gunstock. Here's a link: https://woodcritique.com/finishing/best-gunstock-finish/ to the post, I hope it helps you with you quests to find the right finish for your gunstock.
Thanks
Tyron
I don't know what type of firearm you are finishing but I built a flintlock a few years back and for "original" finish I used a mixture of loose-leaf tobacco mixed with a small amount of ammonia. Let it set a couple of days and used the resulting juice as a stain. They didn't have a lot of fancy stains in the early days. Came out very nice. The secret to a fine finish is sanding, sanding, and more sanding. Up through about 2000 or higher grit.
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