Replies

1. 
   RMillard | Apr 12, 2010 02:59pm | #1

   As long as the shellac is de-waxed it will work perfectly.

   The following link has some information on using a water based finish used in exactly the schedule you described.

   http://rlmillard.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/02/index.html

   Rob Millard

   www,americanfederalperiod.com

1. 
   gerketo1 | Apr 12, 2010 06:45pm | #2

   Oxford name change

   Thanks for the response.  I think I saw you on YouTube using Shellac on a Federal style table?

   Anyway, did some research and it looks like Target changed the name to EM6000 PRODUCTION SPRAY LACQUER.  I like the fact that this is supposed to "burn in".  Seems easy enough to use.  My only concern is with its durability.  Traditional lacquer has always seemed very fragile and easily damaged by water.  Is this a good choice for a dining table vs other water based finishes?   I'm sure the table will see its share of alcohol as well (occasionally).

   Thanks in advance

   Tom

1. 
   cahudson42 | Apr 13, 2010 01:59am | #3

   Behlen Rock Hard.. or Waterlox?

   Hi Tom,

   Have you considered the Behlen Rock Hard Rob mentioned, or Waterlox - which also seems to get a lot of recommendations here? Why not try samples - along with the water-based stuff - before tackling the entire table?

   Personally, I would never use any water-based product on any piece of furniture - let alone a Dining Table.

   'Just my 2-cents'

   Good Luck!

   Regards,

   Chris

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Apr 19, 2010 09:45am | #5

   Why no waterbased?

   Chris,

   I'm just curious why you would never use waterbased on furniture.  I don't like it because it doesn't add enough warmth on its own, but putting it over shellac should solve that issue.

1. 
   salamfam | Apr 20, 2010 07:15am | #6

   Water based warmth

   Chris,

   I have some experience with the Target brand of water based finishes and I can say with confidence that the conversion varnish provides a nice warm color like an oil based varnish. There lacquers are very nice also. Look into Target brands, I think you will like what you see.

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Apr 20, 2010 09:51am | #7

   I'm impressed

   Bob,

   I checked out their web site and thrie products sound worth trying.  I was surprised and impressed to learn that they are available in BC.  Does the conversion varnis you use still look milky even though it provides warmth?

3. 
   salamfam | Apr 20, 2010 10:40am | #8

   The Target conversion varnish may have a bit of a milky color when wet but after curing it looks exactly like a quality oil varnish. It is also one of the toughest finishes I have used.

2. 
   DonStephan | Apr 13, 2010 07:54pm | #4

   Regarding wb finish choices, I was satisfied with Target's Hybrivar finish, then they changed to an all number system and I couldn't keep track of which was which.  I've since been using General Finishes Pre-Cat 181 and have  been satisfied with that as well.  My supplier is http://www.homesteadfinishing.com

3. 
   gerketo1 | Apr 22, 2010 01:11pm | #9

   Update

   Thanks for all of your comments.

   I contacted General Finishes regarding the EnduroVar product (might not be the exact name) and they said absolutely no to placing over shellac.  They sent a sample and I tried it on a small board and it worked fine, but considering they said no I decided that I would not go that route.  They probably just said no to protect themselves which I kind of understand, but at the same time kind of makes me mad.

    I have decided to go with Target EM 6000 which is essentially just a WB lacquer.

   Someone mentioned conversion varnish and I looked into this but it sounded like it would be best left to people that do it every day for a living.

   Right now I am at the point where you start to say, stop overthinking it, just finish it.  We don’t have kids so I don’t have to worry about little Jimmy pouring water onto the table and not telling daddy.   And besides, it will look older, faster.... 

   I’ll let you all know how it turns out.

1. 
   gerketo1 | Jun 03, 2010 07:11pm | #10

   Follow up

   Following up on my original post. 

   Shellac went fine.  Had to sand more than I thought but ended up with a nice amber color and nice smooth finish.  Waited 7 days to fill.

    Filler went as good as it can.  I hate filling, lets just leave it at that.  Good color, nice smooth finish.  Waited 6 days to spray.

    Sprayed two coats of gloss.  Went OK but I think I applied a little thin.  Flow out was not great and ended with a little orange peel.  Should have sanded back the first two coats at this point but I did not.  

   Applied two coats of satin.  The satin is REALLY satin.  Did not care for the seen at all.  At this point had too much orange peel to live with so I sanded back a bit (24 hours later).  After sanding with 600 grit had a nice smooth finish but as expected, not a consistent sheen.   Sprayed what I intended to be the final coat making sure that I got a thicker film to get better flow out but still had a slight orange peel.  It did have a nice consistent sheen just too dull.  Almost looked grey when seen with a racking light, like you can’t even see the wood. 

   At this point it goes bad/worse.  Waited a week.  Tried to rub out with wax and steel wool.  The wax must have been (was) really old.  Was kind of dry so I thinned it with what I thought was mineral spirits but I picked up alcohol instead and did not notice.  There was just no rubbing the wax, it basically left various shades of waxy buildup, only way to explain it.  Anyway, the wax could not be gotten off of the top.  Tried several coats of MS to dissolve the wax but it would not go away.  I then used the abrasive pads and it did start to smooth the finish a bit but did not get rid of the wax.

    Ended up using rottenstone and oil, which took care of the orange peel and left a nice smooth finish but an inconsistent sheen.  I suppose if I would have kept going with the rottenstone it would have evened up.  I was just sick of trying and afraid to make it worse.

    Maybe some day when/if I get sick of looking at the inconsistent sheen I’ll fix it.

    Anyway the finish, Target EM 6000, seems like a fine product, probably just the user.

   Dries really fast, seems to burn in as promised, had no bonding issues.  I just picked the wrong sheen.  Think I would have been happy with a mix of gloss and semi gloss.

   Thanks for your help.  Live and learn.