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My first crack at applying a water based dye stain was far less than desirable. I followed most of the tips learned over the last few weeks but when I applied the dye stain on my finished piece, it came out much worse than my test pieces (control I guess), partly due the fact I kept going over the piece with a dye stained rag to try to remove the runs that developed on the vertical surfaces. Let me set the stage.
I’m working with poplar; I sanded through 150 grit; watered the piece down to raise the grain; sanded to 180; applied a light washcoat of animal-hide glue; maroon pad sanded and then using a lint free rag the first time, I applied the dye. I saturated the area I was working on from the top down, but every time the dye ran on vertical surfaces it left a run mark all the way down and I didn’t know what to do at that point. My “fix” was to wait 5 minutes and re-apply the dye and try to blend the piece to match the run intensity and that, of course, made the piece darker. The second time I used a foam brush, but had the same results. The runs are killing me!
I’m trying to keep the piece light and without going to spray equipment, can someone walk me through a successful water base dye application process for a “pro” wannabe.
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I dilute the dye with water until saturating a test piece gives me an acceptable color, and rag it on. My rag is soaked to the point of dripping. Since the dye is the color I want, runs aren't a problem.
An area that takes too dark for some reason can be lightened with clear water, applied with a somewhat less than soaking rag. Feathering the same, rag a little drier.
I've never used a washcoat with dye.
Dave
*Dave,Thanks for the reply. A few further questions....Do you wait a few minutes after the dye settles and then wipe off the excess and by recoating using the same process, will this make the piece darker? By the way, I wanted to make sure I didn't have "blotchy" appearances on the piece and I understand hide glue will prevent this. FWW suggested this process for cherry wood so I decided to try it with poplar and it seemed to work quite well eventhough I ran into the problems I described earlier.
*Do I wait...no, I work it as I go. This is impressively difficult to describe, I've started and erased three times. :-) I don't really "flood" it on and let it soak waaaay in, I use the rag to kind of work it into the wood. There isn't really any excess to take off, after a few minutes the water has mostly evaporated.Recoating using...maybe, but not by much, maybe not any. I don't recall having gone out of my way to recoat with the same mixture. I've lightened a little with water, and I've added different coloring. Any change, I think, would be minor, but I'd have to try it to be sure.I have heard of using a hide glue sizing when pigment staining to control absorption, but the only time I've had a blotching problem with water dye is by not putting enough mixture on to fully dampen the wood.If you can give an idea of the color intensity you're looking at, I'll try some Poplar this weekend and see how it comes out.Dave
*Thanks again for your input. I think part of my problem is that I tried flooding the workpiece instead of "working" one panel at a time with a fairly saturated rag.To answer your question about color..... I'm trying to achieve a light "blush" brown on poplar. If you can imagine a red oak board that has been coated with an orange shellac is about the best I can describe it. Keep in mind, this is my first attempt with water base dyes, so some of my questions may seem academic, but bear with me.
*Cool. I'll give a shot at some this weekend and see what comes out.I've seen recommendations from time to time on flooding the piece. Like you, I find that pretty hard to control.Dave
*Flooding is OK, but you have to really work quickly. The problem is not with the runs, but that they had a chance to dry some before you went back over them. The key is to follow the runs with a wet cloth before they have a chance to dry -- then the run will just naturally disappear into the dye. If you wait 5-minutes, you compound the problem. Remember if flooded on dye is too dark, (you will discover this on your TEST BOARDS not your project) you can just thin the dye with more water.
*Gary; When working with water stains (or any stains), work from the bottom up on vertical surfaces to help avoid the problem with runs and don't let it dry until you have an even coat. there is no need for washcoat with water stains. sand wood to 220 grit, wet, and resand-apply stain.Water stain should be applied very warm. Drew
*I've made a little test board. I don't have any light colored dye, so I waaaaaay thinned what I had. This board is 1/16th recommended dilution on top, 1/12th recommended on bottom. Were I to do this on a piece of furniture, I'd start with a lighter dye. Thinning it that much is really pushing the limit, it took more working with than usual.Sanded 220g, no blotch control measures of any sort. No grain preraising. Applied with a wet paper towel (larger piece should use rag), and just kind of mopped around until it soaked in well. Right hand side had the same dye reapplied to it after drying, you can see a little darkening. The light horizontal band in the middle is undyed. The dark vertical band is sticker stain. The whole board has 2 very light coats of superblond shellac. Overall, the scan doesn't begin to do the board justice, it actually is quite nice looking.http://users2.ev1.net/~arbuckle/DyedPoplar.JPGDave
*Thanks for your suggestion.....I followed any runs I had with hot clean water and was able to control them (runs) much better as they occured. I was also more careful in applying the dye....one panel at a time.
*Drew,Thanks for your input on application of the dye stains. The purchase of the dyes I made from a reputable woodworking company, however, suggested I originally mix the dyes...... 1 oz to 1 qt of hot water, but apply the stain to the wood surface cooled. Is there any reason I should apply the stain hot?
*Thanks for the effort you did......nice picture. The color I am trying to achieve is probably closer to the left side of the board (lighter). One question I do have is I don't understand what you mean by "pushing the limit" and "more working the wood". Are there limitations to the diluting strengths of a dye stain and what are the consequences? I used 1/15th strength of a solution of 1 oz to 1 quart and the color (unfinished) seems to be washed out, although light in color. How do you make the grain of the wood "pop" out. I've read several articles about this and they all seem to favor an oil rub, subsequent finishing with whatever your preference is.......I prefer Polyurethane. I'm at that point right now.....stained only and ready for topcoat.
*It seemed like the dye didn't take as evenly as usual, so I had to mop it around more than usual to even out the color. In retrospect, it could just be a function of Poplar, I'm not sure. I was starting from a very dark base stain, TransFast Brown Mahogany. Need to do some more experimentation. ;-)I don't particularly think of Poplar as a "grain popping" wood, but that might be prejudice as much as anything. That test board is surprisingly good looking with just the shellac on it. Oiling is often a good choice, but sometimes not necessary. Try a couple.Dave
*The reason I use water stains with warm water is that The water will evaporate at a faster rate thus minimising the grain raising so commonly associated with water stains. Drew
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