Replies

1. 
   Floss | Jan 25, 2006 04:11am | #1

   Wet it sand with 180, wet it again and sand 220. Apply stain.

   J.P.

   http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
2. 
   YesIWood | Jan 25, 2006 08:31am | #2

   TC,

     Please practice first.  And yes, sand the pre-raise grain.  Use distilled water, so your wood does not spot due to the tanic acids.  Becareful that you don't sand too.  You don't want to sand past the pre-raised grain. 

   Hope this helps. 

   Joe

   Is it really saw dust or wood dust?

3. 
   hammer1 | Jan 25, 2006 04:30pm | #3

   If you haven't used water soluble dyes before, you may want to do some practicing. Water dyes don't do a very good job on open grained species. The water dye doesn't penetrate the pores leaving uncolored wood in the open pores. Considering all the work involved with either raising the grain first or sanding in the dye to help with penetration, the dyes are hardly worth it. I can't see any advantage to using them instead of stains. Water based dyes also bleed into your finish coats so you need to seal them. I was an avid dye user for years but I finally smartened up. I like to avoid water on my work and all the extra work dyes entail. If they gave superior color or were easy to use, it would be a different story. It's also difficult to blend or tone dyes, they are pretty much all or nothing. It's one thing if you are coloring some marquetry pieces for blues and other bright colors but as a substitute for stain on a large piece, I wouldn't use it.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 29, 2006 07:47am | #7

   If you are having trouble with dye penetrating the inner walls of the pores, there is a dye formulated precisely for that problem.  It is Artiporin, and is sold through Highland Hardware. 

4. 
   Ronaway | Jan 25, 2006 05:37pm | #4

   I always use waterbase dyes in my coloring process. They are a great way to even out the different tones in the raw wood. I typically overwipe them with an oil based pigmented stain. This gives you 2 true layers of color but with great clarity and and consistent color. I prefer the Smooth and Simple dyes that come in a gel consistency. I haven't found the grain raising to be a great bother. I also find that if I hand sand as the last step in preparing the wood for
   the finishing room I get very little grain raising. If I try to go in right off a random orbit sander the grain seems to raise quite a bit more. I also find that hand planed surfaces do not
   raise very much even if a do a bit of sanding on them after planing. On blotch prone woods
   I use a stain blocker before staining and that goes a long way toward limiting the grain raising.

   Ron

   Edited 1/25/2006 9:38 am ET by Ronaway

   
   

   ---

   Edited 1/25/2006 9:38 am ET by Ronaway

1. 
   tcbaldmtn | Jan 25, 2006 07:02pm | #5

   Actually I was reading another woodworking magazine that described a multi step approach for Qtr sawn oak.  The pictures were pretty nice.  It entails water based dye sealed with de-waxed shellac, then a gel stain followed by another coat of de-waxed shellac, then the top coat of my choice. 

   I know it sounds like a lot of work.  The project I'm doing is small and just wanted to see how it works.

1. 
   BG | Jan 26, 2006 01:41am | #6

   tc,

   I used that same process on some rift sawn oak...only difference was wipe on varnish for the finish..came out great. I may have mixed the transtint with alcohol because of the open grain. Also, the bartley's gel stain dried too quickly...try another brand if you go that way

5. 
   woodman1549 | Feb 01, 2006 02:44am | #8

   Most of the stain I use is analine stain dampen the wood and sand at a slight angle to the wood, when u dye the end grain, dampen the wood first then apply the stain so it doesn't soak in too much.

1. 
   tcbaldmtn | Feb 01, 2006 05:15pm | #9

   Thanks for the heads up on the end grain.  I forgot to ask that question.  I have used mineral spirits for end grain with oil based stains before.

1. 
   forestgirl | Feb 01, 2006 08:59pm | #10

   Re: end grain, sanding to a higher grit will also help there.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) Do unto others as you tell them they should do unto you....

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Feb 02, 2006 02:47am | #11

   The higher grit sanding is much more effective at lightening end grain with pigment stain than with dye.  But it sure can't hurt.  Besides, you'll be glad you did when it is time to apply the top coat. 

1. 
   forestgirl | Feb 02, 2006 03:57am | #12

   Thanks for the additional info, Steve.  I didn't realize that dye is so much "kinder" in that respect.  I really do want to try using dye on maple, but it won't work with the current project.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) Do unto others as you tell them they should do unto you....