Hello,
I am moving to a new house next week and moving my workshop from a 10×18 room into a 20×24 2-car garage.
There is a gas water-heater in the corner of the garage as is the case in most newer houses. Should I be worried about this?
Any danger related to wood dust in the air (I don’t have a dust collector) or the usual wood finishes, oils, varnishes, solvents etc…(no spraying, and most likely not applied directly near the heater itself.)
It’s a brand new house, and I’m not sure about the technology of the water-heater itself. It does have a sticker warning about flammable vapors, mentioning gasoline etc, but I’m not sure that any of the finishes and wiping/brushing applications would qualify for that.
Thanks!
Replies
"any danger related to wood dust in the air"
Sure is. Wood dust killed my grandfather years before his time. :-(
I am sorry to hear that, but I am of course talking about any dangerous interaction with the water-heater.
The first thing I would do is talk to my local building and/or fire inspector, I would suspect that the installation of a water heater in a garage is illegal. If it isn't illegal it is certainly distinctly stupid and I would never want to sleep a single night in a house with that set up.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
I don't think it's illegal. All newer construction homes that I've seen here, including planned communities, have the water-heater in a corner of the garage.
Edited 5/14/2007 1:56 pm ET by LeChuck
I just talked to a building inspector here in Connecticut about this.
Under the rules here it is legal only if it is a direct vent unit, drawing combustion air from the outdoors, and the heater is raised off of the floor by 18 inches to get it away from gas fumes collecting at floor level.
He shares my opinion that it is a bad idea since in addition to a fire hazard it wastes fuel maintaining the tank's temperature in cold weather.
John W.
I see. Well, here it is done in attached garages and in newer constructions there are no water pipes going outside of the house. Cold in the garage is not an issue since this is Tucson, AZ. Quite the contrary, as I'd be more worried about the water heater making my garage even hotter!It might be drawing air from the outdoors which means I might be able to enclose it. I'll have to check. Gas man is coming on Wednesday so I can ask what he recommends for that.I'm not a homeowner so I gotta live with things the way they are, or I would not have put it there if it had been my choice. Well, if it had been my choice I'd have no gas in the house at all.
Edited 5/14/2007 2:54 pm ET by LeChuck
LeChuck
The danger of combustion is a product of the ratio of flamable matter to air. As a generality, it takes an enclosed space to generate a high enough ratio to become explosive. In Tucson, if we presume that you will most usually have a windows and doors open when you are working there, then it is not very probable that you can achieve those concentrations. The ratio where an explosion can occur varies with the size of the particles, their chemical content, moisture, and the amount of non-combustible dust mixed in. Because the mixture is necessary, the dust must be suspended in air. In order to become explosive it is generally very uncomfortable for normal breathing.
Building an enclosure around a gas fired heater is probably not a very good idea. As you reduce the size of the atmosphere, the amount of gas required to create that explosion is reduced. Thus, you are less likely to have an explosion where there is good ventilation.
Bill
To be frank, no, there's no window in the garage, and the garage door will most likely be down unless I really need to air it out. I don't want to expose my whole garage to all passers by, plus the noise, plus the heat coming in from the driveway...I see what you're saying though, about the enclosure. I need to figure out a good ventilation system.This is really so I can alleviate my fear a little. I don't remember ever being in a situation where the wood dust was really filling the air. The machines rally making some dust are the table saw, but with its dust thing at the bottom it's mostly send to the floor (and I'll be building a cabinet under there) and the router, which won't be near the water heater.Thanks all for your answers!
I'm no expert but here are a few common sense suggestions:1. Consult with a good plumber who has been in the biz for a while... you could also post this on Breaktime and get a few replies from plumbers over there. If you don't know of a good plumber, ask your real estate agent- they will.2. I would consider enclosing and insulating the tank and venting it to the outside properly. This will reduce the risk and improve your energy efficiency.3. You should probably consider a dust collection system to reduce the personal hazard of wood dust to you and yours. If and when you do, be very cautious about venting the dc- I would not vent the dc outside without properly venting the water heater, as the negative pressure in the shop will suck fumes from the gas heat on the tank. In this case, doing #2 above first makes a lot of sense.GlauconIf you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Edited 5/14/2007 6:02 pm ET by Glaucon
" I would consider enclosing and insulating the tank and venting it to the outside properly. This will reduce the risk and improve your energy efficiency."
Don't do it leave it open to plenty of fresh air also you never insulate a water heater that is in where it will be warm & enclosing a HWH like this would cause it to be in a warm area & with insulation it will cause the water tank inside the insulate metal jacket to sweat & cause it to rust out early shortening the life of the HWH.
I have plenty of experience with this I have replaced 58 hot water heaters in 2 apartment complexes that were in heated areas & they all were insulated they all failed due to rust from sweating because they were insulated. In a cold area this would be ok. I know of several mobile homes where the tank is in a unheated area this is where you would insulate the tank or in an area of the country where the temprature get cold & the tank is out in a unheated area. In any case I would talk to a well qualified plumber or 3 & if this is a rental the owner before I did anything.Good, better, best never let it rest until your good is better & your better best.
John,
Strange. In the last twenty years, I don't think I've seen a newly constructed house in California that had the water heater anywhere other than the garage! They're all 18"-24" off the floor, and the exhaust fumes are vented outside (usually up through the roof), but the intake air is just regular garage air.
Bob
We have the same situation here in SoCal; virtually all homes built in the last 30+ years with attached garages have the water heaters and/or furnaces in the garage, on a pedestal 18+ inches high. The burner exhaust exits through a chimney in the roof.
We also have two vents -- one near the floor, and a fairly large one (~12"x 12") up near the ceiling.
My approach has been to use common sense. I keep the vents open and I *never* use gasoline as a solvent. When I spray paint or lacquer (aerosol cans only) I try not to spray away from the heater/furnace and when practical crack the garage door a few inches to enhance ventilation.
Out here nobody has a basement, so garages are what everybody uses for shop areas. Garage fires are few and far between so the code requirements appear to be pretty effective.
Not only does it waste energy in a cold climate, if someone leaves a door open on a cold day, you have a bunch of frozen pipes.
JohnWW
Sorry to contradict you.. But water heaters are usually found in garages in the southwest. as are gas dryers and often furnaces. (garages are normally attached in the southwest)
The feeling is that it's better to have the garage blow up than the house, it's also better to keep possible carbon monoxide sources outside the building envelope
Risk of exploson with gasolene? sure! but like most things it's a trade off..
Many garages are heated. My maintenance man's mother was in a hurry to get to the bathroom. She closed the garage door and ran up stairs. After taking care of her needs, she went to bed. The only thing that saved the day was my maintenance man had car trouble on his way home and walked to his mom's house for help. He ended up giving more help than he got.
Wow John where have you been for about the last 50 years or more?Good, better, best never let it rest until your good is better & your better best.
Well I haven't been building houses with water heaters in garages and I never would. I used to build houses but stopped about 15 years ago.
What I have been is a safety consultant, accident investigator, and an EMT. After doing any of those jobs for awhile you come away with the conviction that a garage should never be attached to or built into a house, a sentiment shared by a number of health organizations and safety consultants.
John W.
"a garage should never be attached to or built into a house"
Except, of course, where one completely fills said garage with wood and tools to the total exclusion of anything automotive. ; - )
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
The true best use for a garage.
John W.
Actually, a 12 year rebuild of a 55 Chevy Belair is also a good use for a garage...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Goodf afternoon Glaucon,
You have a 55 Chevy Bel air !?! Cars are one of my other passions, though I own no classic cars from my youth. Please post or e-mail pics (start a new thread perhaps ?). My dream home would be a 5 bay garage (1 bay for a golf simulator), full basement with walkout for my shop, and oh yes, almost forgot, living space above the garage. However I don't think this would be the dream home of "She, Who Must Be Obeyed" !
Cheers,
Bruce
Alas! My Dad had one (the first car I ever rode in... as I remember it was a two tone- green and white? I was only 2 or 3 at the time). I wished he'd held on to it... if I ever come across another (and the time to work on it), my garage will be given over to it (fortunately my wood shop is in the basement).Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
If guys had their choice most of us would have really large shops, with a twin bed stuck off in a corner somewhere. Without women we really wouldn't have ever become civilized.
Well, I don't pretend to have any strong opinion or knowledge about this, but all I can say is that all new houses now are built that way, at least here, and there's usually no space to do anything else than an attached garage. If I could design and build my house, I'd certainly have a nice detached 800sqft workshop with doors, windows, A/C etc...But there's no choice to be made by myself right now. The house will be as it is, and on the way overpriced housing market in Tucson, it's a pretty good deal for a rental. The majority of older homes actually don't even *have* a garage.
Edited 5/15/2007 10:23 am ET by LeChuck
After doing any of those jobs for awhile you come away with the conviction that a garage should never be attached to or built into a house, a sentiment shared by a number of health organizations and safety consultants.
From the carbon monoxide issue alone, I think you can make that case.
That said, the desire by people for bigger homes, and by urban planners and developers for ultra-high density, has trumped health and safety.
When I lived in California, the last house we were in was a 40+ year old house, 860 sq. ft., with a detached garage, on a 5000 sq. ft. lot. That same house built today would likely be 2800-3000 sq. ft., probably a smaller lot, and an attached garge by necessity.
John, with all due respect, gas water heaters in garages are typical here in Western Washington in NEW RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION. I thought it was dangerous myself. I had a three car garage with a gas water heater AND a gas furnace in it. I walled off the last bay to contain the sawdust from the larger bay containing the gas water heater/furnace. I don't get it, but that was and is code here and by definition NOT ILLEGAL. I've since sold that house and my older home doesn't have this stupid setup.Thanks,Jeff
Jeff,
I did correct myself, admitting that it was, to my surprise, code permissible, in one of my later postings on the subject. I still wouldn't want to have that set up in my home.
By the way, I'm not paranoid over gas fired appliances. My home in Vermont is "off the grid" and powered almost entirely by gas: heat, lights, hot water, range, clothes dryer, even the refrigerator. The house has gas pipes running around in the walls and ceilings like they were electric wires.
John W.
Yes, I understand. I wrote that before reading the entire thread. Bad habit. But in general, I was in agreement with you, I think it's a bad policy. Score one for the builders lobby at the capital building. I was always worried about my gasoline appliances leaking fumes inside the garage. In fact, just after I bought the home, I had a temperature sensor wired just above the furnace/water heater area wired to the fire dept. just in case a fire did occur while I was not home. I wasn't paranoid about it, but I wasn't comfortable with it either. I was equally concerned about wood dust building up inside the appliances and eventually touching off a fire that way as well. Believe me, I had a maintenance schedule I religiously kept on those appliances......Jeff
...My home in Vermont...
You must have one helluva commute to work.
Edited 5/18/2007 11:48 am ET by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs
Only on the weekends, I stay in Connecticut during the week.
Our video guy commutes home to LA every weekend. A few other people here also live out of state and are only home on the weekends. You get used to it, and the change is fun.
John W.
LA - Los Angeles or Louisiana? (not that it matters much).
That's expensive.
I need to trade in the shop for some photography gear and a little training.
The west coast LA, his wife works for the airlines so he gets a good price.
John W.
John,
Maybe you could explain this to me. We live in Central Texas and wanted to erect a shed in the back to free up the garage for the GOOD STUFF. I was told by the code enforcement when I went to get the permit that the shed had to be 10 feet from the house so I made it 10 feet. When the building inspector came to look at the finished product I asked him about the 10 foot rule. He told me that it was there because I might store flammable items, gas cans, spare BBQ tanks, etc. in the shed. When I informed him that ALL of the items in the shed were once in the connected garage he said to me that he didn't make the rules but he had to enforce them.
Thanks,
Greg
Welcome to the wonderful world of building codes, and most other rules and regulations in fact. Please park your need for logic at the door.
John W.
It sounds like to me it is your intention to move the flammables into the new shed. So, I'm not sure what it is about the code provision that you don't understand.
You COULD keep cans of gasoline in your bedroom if you felt like it, but as long as a homeowner is building a new structure, a storage shed, why not make it code to move it away from the house?
Makes perfect sense to me.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
I guess that is because the lawnmower along with it gas can is in the shed right next to the spare filled propane tank for the gas grill. Now most of the neighbors who don't have a shed will store these items in their garage, where by chance, the water heater is. I don't profess to be an electrical wiz but the water heater is up about 15-16 inches off the floor to prevent any fumes from being ignited by a spark. Last I looked when I took off the access panels to adjust the thermostats I saw no signs of sparking on the fiberglass insulation that cover the wire hookups for the electrical coils.
I would suspect that the installation of a water heater in a garage is illegal
John, it's a warm-weather thing done in houses on slabs. We Yankees know the mechanicals belong in the basement. ;-)
Pete
Thank you all again for your participation in this thread.On a side note, after moving into the house this weekend (and moving all the workshop stuff, jointer, TS, bandsaw, and all the wood, what a pain) and discovering how awfully hot it gets in the afternoon, I am now on a quest for inexpensive cooling.The garage does have vents, 2 1-foot square vents, near the door, one at the bottom of the wall, one at the top. I want to try to use one of those to setup a window unit, but not quite sure what to do with the second. Ideally I'd have perhaps a dust collector using that to vent out, maybe, but I can't purchase one yet. That's another story :)
Water heater danger
open water heater may be denerus because at working time it is underwater and may be corent in water .
The basic danger posed by a gas water heater is that fumes (esp gasoline) are heavier than air and the burner on the water heater is near the floor. The result is that a flash fire can result. Either a petro flashover, or a dust explosion, requires a relatively high concentration in parts per million, and most often the greatest danger from petro products is often when the space is not in use. Kick a gas can over, and then leave the area closed up.
As I recall there is benefit to raising the water heater 24" or more off of the floor, but this only lessens the danger but does not eliminate it. You have similar exposure to any gas appliance that uses either a pilot light or electronic ignition.
Bill
I've read that the code says they have to be at leas 18 inches off the ground, and that's the case here. I read about the danger with spills, flammable stuff etc...but I wanted to know the danger in a regular woodworking situation. There's very little chance that I'm going to be kicking gasoline cans all over the place and will most likely do any car work in the driveway as the garage will be dedicated to woodworking. Is there a danger of combustion of wood dust int eh air due to the water heater, or is there any danger resulting from the usual application of wipe-on/brush-on finishes such as solvent based varnishes etc...Given the fact that I'm certainly not going to do that next to the heater itself!I was initially thinking about building an enclosure for the water heater but I need to check if it has an outside source of air.
In answer to your question, Is there a danger? I won't answer your question but I did witness a fire that burned a dusty grain elevator to the ground - caused by a motor that arced a little.
Hello
Wood dust is not like flour dust. You will not have an issue in my opinion with combustion etc... Just keep it clean.. I remember the boys on mythbusters tried to ignite wood dust with an open flame and they were unable to achieve the effect you are worried about, and they tried to do it. As for finish I do not think with proper ventilation you will have problem either. I believe you would die of inhalation before you caused a fire with the required parts per million you would need for ignation.
Rich
FYI the Dust it self is a greater danger... look into getting a good vac system. I am doing the same now.
Thanks Rich.Yes, a dust collector is on my list of things to get. Right now I need a portable A/C unit because it is just far too hot in there to do *anything*, and the dust collector will be next when I can. Right now I'm making do with a shop vac. That thing is by far the noisiest thing in the workshop. Easily beats the router, planer and anything less. It just screams. I hate it. I of course wear a respirator when I work.David.
David,
A fine point here: You're thinking of installing a window A/C unit in your shop/garage. That means you'll likely opt for closing off the vents that lead outside. However, if your water heater is not a sealed combustion unit (one that draws its combustion air directly from the outdoors via a pipe), then shutting the vents could create a situation where the water heater is starved for combustion air.
Granted, it's unlikely that your garage is airtight enough that this would be a major issue. However, a fuel-burning appliance can burn "dirty" if it doesn't get enough combustion air, and it will produce copious amounts of carbon monoxide as a result. And, if the air intake vents are shut, the venting of the water heater could be compromised. That could mean carbon monoxide would be released into the shop/garage. So, something else to think about..
Zolton
Thanks Zolton.I might go for a portable A/C unit, and I think I'll have to use one of the vents to exhaust that to the outside. I'm not sure what to do with the other vent. I don't want to close it, but then I still want the cooling to be efficient, although I'd say the heat in the garage doesn't come from the vents but probably from the uninsulated garage door exposed to the sun on the west side. I'll be looking to insulate that door.But as you say, the garage is not air tight. There are tight spaces all around the door where light shines through a little.Hey, it could be much worse! They could have placed the washer an dryer in the garage as they do in too many houses...
Naturally the combustion exhaust gasses will be vented to the out side. My concern would be the the air supply for combustion. If that air is ducted from the outside I would not be too concerned. But if the combustion air is drawn from the garage I would exchange it for an outside vented unit or an Electric water heater.
As far as heat gain from the unit goes, it should be minimal. But an added layer of blanket insulation designed for water heaters is not a bad idea at all, in the long run you'll save some energy. Follow the instructions closely so you don't block off the combustion air if it's an open unit.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Thanks. I mentioned in an earlier post that I'm going to be renteing that house, so there will be no modification made to how the water-heater is vented (and I would surely exchange it for an electric unit in a heartbeat if I could!), however I believe that it might be taking air from outside via a little conduit in the garage wall as I've noticed something outside in that area. I also believe it might be part of the code. I will check on that and read the heater's literature as well. I spent a few hours sealing the concrete yesterday and didn't spend much time with the water heater.
The question boils down to whether the water heater is a sealed combustion unit or not. Sealed combustion appliances (and furnaces are built this way as well) draw combustion air from outside the house and vent the flue gasses outside - without the flame being exposed to the air inside the house. Or garage in your case.
Sealed combustion water heaters are a little uncommon. But they may be required in instances where they are installed in garages - due in large part to there possibly being flammable vapors in a garage. Local codes vary though, so the water heater in your garage might not be a sealed combustion unit.
If the water heater is not a sealed combustion model there is a risk with wood dust floating in the air. The burner and pilot light are exposed to the indoor air, and as air is drawn into the combustion chamber the particles of dust in that air could ignite. It does take a certain concentration, as another poster pointed out, for an explosive condition to develop. But all in all, if you're working wood in an area with an exposed flame like that, it is too risky to take a chance.
Zolton
Thanks for your reply. I'll go back and figure out what type of heater it is and read the specs. I did not see any exposed flame last time I looked, but I'll follow up here.Thanks!
David.
Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it. But -- I also would NOT spray any solvent material (like lacquer) or work with solvent based contact cement in that garage.I would also exercise common sense about dust. Don't position any of your machines so they are blowing dust at the water heater. I would feel a lot more comfortable if you would at least get a small dust collector -- which would avoid filling the air with dust. Brushed or wiped on solvent finishes will not be a problem, IMHO, but I would still open the door a foot or so, and use a box fan to exhaust the fumes. Better yet, learn to love water based finishes.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
You don't need to worry about a fire hazard from airborne wood dust in the proximity of the WH. The concentrations in a shop never get high enough to explode. Same with finishing (spraying NOT included) -- the levels of vapor aren't high enough. The only thing I would worry about is the tendency for the draft of the WH to pull dust into the fire chamber. If it was me, I'd blow the dust out (shop vac on "blow") regularly, including the combustion chamber and taking off the vent cap and cleaning out the vent from the top. (I use a gas heater in my shop and never had any problems other than needing to clean it regularly to keep dust from building up.)
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Mike and nikkiwood, thanks for your replies. It convinces me to be prudent but not overly worried about this. A small dust collector is in the plans for when the wallet allows it. Probably one of those smaller portable ones to move from tool to tool.
You might also consider one of the recirculating dust filters that have both a filter screen and a HEPA filter. I found that they do a great job of cleaning the air of the dust that escapes from the DC and everything else before it gets to my lungs.
Those smaller portable things that you place near the ceiling?
Mine is hung from the ceiling. Here are some references:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2238
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=30277&cat=1,42401&ap=1
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17082&filter=24770
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Thanks for the links! Will have to start saving up for proper dust collection.
Save enough to at least buy a 2 HP DC unit because you will get tired of wheeling it around & then it will be big enough to set in the corner by the door & run duct work to all your tools. Also get a remote starter to go with it. A 1 1/2 hp unit will work but the difference is really noticeable when you step up to a 2 HP unit. The LOML went with me when I went to buy my DC & I was looking at a 1 1/2 HP unit & she said wouldn’t this one be better pointing to the 2 HP unit & then she said you better get the remote too. Yep she’s a keeper & smart too.Good, better, best never let it rest until your good is better & your better best.
I can't imagine a landlord allowing you to do woodworking in the garage and not allowing you to exchange the dangerous gas water heater for a safe electric water heater. It could save him the house and a big law suit.
Edited 5/16/2007 8:31 pm ET by tinkerer2
Edited 5/16/2007 9:33 pm ET by tinkerer2
Well, before we talk about dangerous water heaters and lawsuits, I'd rather hear some actual experience. As of now, I haven't heard any feedback from anyone who has seen or heard of any such thing happening and instead people who tell me to not worry so much. If there's no smoke, there's no fire :)
Well, with respect to consistancy, there have been several 'voting' for dust collection. ;-)
"Well, before we discuss dangerous water heaters and lawsuits, I'd rather hear some actual experience."
Your statement leaves us with some confusion. Your initial question, "There is a gas water water heater in the corner of the garage -- Should I be worried about this?" "Any danger related to wood dust in the air?"
Some of us have given examples of the danger. I mentioned a grain elevator with a heavy concentration of organic dust in the air that exploded and burned to the ground. I also witnessed a house that exploded -- blew the whole top of the house off, but, from your statement, I'm not sure you want to hear about these things yet.
Do you want to wait a while before we discuss your questions or is there something else you want to discuss first before we discuss your question?
Being in the landlord business for some twenty seven years, it is hard for me to imagine a landlord not wanting to lessen his liability and worries by allowing an electric water heater to replace a gas water heater, especially if it is at not cost to him.
Your point of a grain elevator arcing and burning down has nothing to do with garage weekend woodworking. I am looking for information and feedback adapted to my situation. So far nobody has come forward with any example of a house burning down or exploding because they were doing woodworking in the garage with a water-heater. You know, gas-powered buildings explode from time to time without anyone doing any woodworking in them. I can figure that gas is dangerous all by myself and I don't need anyone to tell me to worry. If I didn't worry, I would not have posted here.That aside, the gas man came to the house this morning to activate everything while my wife was there and seemed to say he was seeing no issue with it.As for the landlord, he doesn't want me to paint the ugly generic colored walls in the house (with every single wall, ceiling, door, trim the same eggshell color), even though that would be to his vast advantage. I'm certainly not going to put the money I don't have into replacing a water heater in a brand new house that I don't own and might be out of in a year, and that only based on fear that something could happen without having heard of a single instance of something happening in a similar situation.I've done a search on the web and couldn't find a single example.
Edited 5/16/2007 10:16 pm ET by LeChuck
"I've done a search on the web and couldn't find a single example."
Search "wood dust" and "carcinogen". Hey, I'll save you the trouble, just click here: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/wooddust/evaluation.html
What the heck are you talking about? I don't know what this has to do with a water heater...
"Your point of a grain elevator arcing and burning down has nothing to do with a garage weekend woodworking."
The grain elevator had an atmosphere laden with an organic dust and an ignition source. We are considering a garage, used for woodworking, with an atmosphere laden with organic dust and with an ignition source. Most people would consider the two situations quite similar. It doesn't make too much difference what the organic dust consists of or if it the flammable product is a gas. The critical points are that to have an explosion you must have an explosive ratio of oxygen and the flammable product. (Any oxidizer such as any halogen may substitute for oxygen.) It also doesn't make much difference whether you work just two days a week or six days a week.
What is wrong with eggshell? That happens to be the color we used in our apartments. In all seriousness, it is fairly well accepted. You can allow one person to paint his favorite color - dark purple, but it will never, ever be accepted by the next tenant one year later and it is so hard to cover. Been there, done that. Glad to hear the gas man approved. Just be advised that under dusty conditions and with an ignition source, you can run into trouble.
"The critical points are that to have an explosion you must have an explosive ratio of oxygen and the flammable product. "However it seems that this explosive ratio would not be reached in a garage woodworking situation.Anyway, thanks for the feedback and discussion.
"However it seems this explosive ratio would not be reached in a garage woodworking situation."
Yes, that seems to be the consensus. We'll hope that is true. Good luck and have lots of fun woodworking.
Gas hot water tank in garage seems fairly typical here in Las Vegas. I've been using the bay closest to the tank for my shop for almost 4 years now without incident. As others have mentioned, the garage also has vents in the walls. Mine are near grade level and I made certain the screens were in good condition to keep out critters.
As things get fairly warm here, most of the time I'm in the shop I have at least the man-door open and typically at least one garage door open. Also as others have mentioned, use some caution when using materials that give off fumes. If I have to spray anything other than WD-40, all of the doors are open. If it's a calm day the 20" box fan gets set in the mandoor.
Shopvac on tablesaw seems to keep the dust at bay, and most of my work these days seems to be with hand tools. If I must do any power sanding, I setup under a palm tree.
The luxury of being a hobbyist is working when you want to rather than when you have to.
Daddyman105
Howdy,
I'll add another two cents to the conversation, but I think you have most of your questions answered.
For the record (and as you might guess from my handle), I used to live in Tucson, and yes, I used to do my woodworking in the garage there.
I had the same situation -- gas fired water heater in the garage, elevated about 18 or 24" off the floor. As others have noted, very, very common out in the old pueblo.
Beyond getting dust *on* the water heater, I don't think you'll have any problems. I never did with the six years I lived there. And there likely is outside venting into the garage -- look around to the edges and you'll likely see some air register vents feeding directly outside. I believe that was done to help counter any concerns about fumes building up in the garage.
One thing you probably want to be worried about is the blower for the furnace and AC. That's also likely located in the garage, again as is typical for Tucson construction. I *have* seen problems with dust building up around the condenser coils and clogging the drip drain tube. Typically what's done is a PVC Tee is inserted into the drain line with the lateral branch sticking up to balance the pressure and allow the water to flow. However, that's where the dust gets in and clogs up the system.
One way to reduce the build up is to extend the 'port' of that pvc tee and bend it around so the dust won't drop down into it. Another option (with owner approval, of course) is to install doors around the area housing the heater & furnace. Typically, I saw bedroom closet doors being used to conceal that area. Even if you don't use the 'slatted' doors, they won't seal up tight enough to create flow problems. Of course, I'd pitch it as an aesthetic improvement for the garage. :-)
Hope that helps,
Glen
Thanks Glen. I was hoping someone who has seen the exact same situation would chime in. I haven't lived in too many places in this country and thought my situation was a pretty standard one.Yes, there are big square vents near the garage door on a side wall, one at the top and one bottom. They will receive some mosquito screens (if there's only one mosquito in this town, it will find me). the vents are about 1 foot square.Only the water-heater is in the garage, thankfully, the rest being on the roof.I do want to enclose it if it turns out to not cause a risk or functionality problem, in a way that the panels won't restrict a required airflow (I'll soon be fixed on whether it has an outside source or not) and can be removed easily.David.
Hi David,Glad to be of help.I'd second the mosquito screen on those vents. You won't find many mosquitos, but there are lots of other critters that will want to come in through there.Take a walk through the local HD window & door section. You should be able to find lots of good options to 'disguise' the heater and still allow for air flow. You're certainly *not* the first to be tackling that project. As another aside, if your rental has an attic, poke your head up there and see if they have the AC condenser draining through the attic. That's a notorious spot for the drain to get clogged and cause water damage to the ceilings. If you've got a flat roofed santa fe style, then it's obviously not a concern.Glen
Yeah, it's all flat roof...The mosquitoes here have been very bad for the past couple years. They are already out right now and I don't what the deal is with me, but I'll be covered in bites in a record time with only one of the beasts around. Those air vents have such wide gaps that I'm sure tarantulas would have no problems going through.
Hi,
Not sure where you live, but I am considering a tankless waterheater to recapture the space in my garage. I'll most likely buy the outside unit and eliminate the venting/pilot light issue entirely. I would not have an open flame in my garage unless I know when it will light and what is in the atmosphere before it lights. You'll need a fuel source for the unit. I live in Florida and want an efficient gas heated water supply. I have spent 10 days w/o power over the past two years and bathing in the pool is not my cup of tea. Manufacturers of the units claim they pay for themselves within two-five years depending on usage levels. http://www.foreverhotwater.com is one site I have looked at.
Think about what flexibility you would have if the hotwater heater was not in your garage...bigger TS, new planer, bandsaw...
Yes, but I will be able to think of that when I buy or build my own house...
Hallo Bro.
I don't have personal experience with them, but I have seen great reviews on them.
The only problem I see with them is the price.
I wouldn't pay anything over $40 for a heater.
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