Replies

1. 
   Dave45 | Jan 31, 2006 04:36pm | #1

   Two major differences in water v.s. oil based poly are drying time and color.  Water based dries faster than oil based.  Oil based poly usually adds a slight amber tone to the piece.

2. 
   Jfrostjr | Jan 31, 2006 07:31pm | #2

   I first tried WB Poly when I found that it did not "darken" Walnut as much as solvent based product. Since that time I have experimented with 8 or 10 brands and have settled on General Gloss WB Polycrylic. Woodcraft is the only source I know of at this time. It dries quickly yet flows out so well there are virtually no brush marks.

   One caveat: You must use a good brush. NO foam brushs! I use one from Jeff Jewett's Homestead Finishing. Orange bristles. Clean-up is so easy I don't ever want to go back to solvent based.

   I sand up through 4,000 grit with Abralon pads on my RO sander, then buff with a cloth wheel and tripoli. Great sheen - no phony look.

   Jerry

3. 
   user-65718 | Jan 31, 2006 11:27pm | #3

   One of the primary reasons I use water based poly (from General as well) is the lack of fumes and easy cleanup with water and soap. There is almost no smell whatsoever. I wanted something that didn't stink up the house (my shop is in the basement of our very porous, 100 year old house) and was safe for kids (when dry) who might still put things in their mouth occasionally.

   The fast drying time also makes it possible to do 5-7 coats of finishing in a weekend on a smaller item.

   I second the need for a really good brush. Luckily with only soap and water cleanup it's easy to take good care of a quality brush and get a lot of life out of it.

1. 
   stevo_wis | Feb 01, 2006 08:27pm | #4

   HI Folks,Is anybody spraying waterbased poly and getting good results?Stevo

1. 
   Sancho | Feb 01, 2006 09:04pm | #5

   Yep thats about all I use. I spray it and love it.Buck Construction

    Artistry In Carpentry

        Pittsburgh Pa

2. 
   ring | Feb 01, 2006 10:54pm | #6

   Absolutely, yes.  Have been using it commercially (mostly kitchens) for about 3 years now with great success.

   DR

3. 
   Dave45 | Feb 01, 2006 11:37pm | #7

   I spray water based poly with my HVLP and it works great.  Cleanup usually takes longer than the actual spraying - lol.

4. 
   DougU | Feb 02, 2006 09:20am | #8

   I just recently bought a HVLP so that I could spray water based finish.

   I'm getting better each time I use it.

   The cleanup and ability to spray in a house that is occupied was my reason for swithching to WB finish.

   Doug

5. 
   Elcoholic | Feb 02, 2006 08:38pm | #9

   Yes, I spray Enduropoly from Compliant Systems.  Most of the time I use my conventional Binks S95 gun, but on several occaisions I have used a borrowed Accuspray HVLP gun and turbine.  I get less orange peel with the HVLP and can lay down a wetter coat without it getting to wet.  This is probably due in part to constant pressure of the turbine.  Like most w/b poly products the Enduro has a slight blueish tint so I add 2 tbls of their Special Golden Oak w/b stain concentrate per qt of poly to get a similar look to water white CAB lacquer.  If I want a more amber color I just buy the Amber Overprint Enduro.  Of course when using w/b anything you have the extra step of raising and knocking down the grain.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   The more things change ...

   We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.

   Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC

6. 
   AndyCharron1 | Feb 02, 2006 10:43pm | #10

   I've been spraying water based finishes for about 13 years now. I've used a number of different finishes in just about every type of spray gun available. Currently I use Ultima Spray Lacquer from Target Coatings and am very pleased with the results. Even though most water based products are much better than they were 10 or 15 years ago, there are still some dogs out there. I would recommend you play around with different brands before you settle on one.

1. 
   storme | Feb 03, 2006 12:25am | #11

   Any thoughts on outdoor use?I'm making some fold up plywood picnic tables and would like a tough, durable surface that can stand a little abuse. They'll also spend (some) time in the sun so UV resistance is a concern.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Feb 03, 2006 02:53am | #12

   For outdoor use forget poly altogether.  Polyurethane resin varnish is quite vulnerable to UV damage.  It only shows "sort of" passable exterior use through the substantial use of UV inhibitor chemicals.  But the tung/phenolic traditional spar varnish, now with added UV protectors, is head and shoulders superior in standing up to the sun.  (Even this won't stand up long to full sun all day, however.  It takes paint to do that.)  Good spar varnish is only found through marine supply stores.  It will be manufactured by companies such as Interlux, Epifanes, and Pettit.  Minwax and McClosky are not on the list.  Good spar varnish will cost about $25 per quart. 

2. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 04, 2006 03:01am | #15

   RE: ".............there are still some dogs out there."Everyone hesitates to name names, but I don't see why it would not be ok for you, given your experience, to tell us what some of them are. Even if you don't want to go there, could you suggest how one can go about ferreting out the good from the bad, and thus saving the cost of buying a can of the bad stuff?BTW, a good part of what I know about spraying, I learned from your book. And for others reading this thread who want a good comprehensive intro to spraying, I can highly recommend Andy's book:

   http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070239.asp********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   AndyCharron1 | Feb 06, 2006 08:23pm | #16

   Thanks for the kind comments. I'm glad you found my book helpful. Perhaps I was a bit strong when I referred to some finishes as "dogs". What I meant was there are many water based finishes that are really good, and a few that are not so good. I'm a bit hesitant to "name names" since it has been several years since I've used the finishes I didn't like. It is possible the formulations have changed since I tried them and they may have improved. With that being said, I will tell you that a few of the finishes I have tried over the years that I was not pleased with include Minwax's "Polycrylic", something called "crystallac", and just about anything made by Hydrocote. I tried each of these finishes a few times before giving up and switching to something else. I also used "ChemAqua" by Sherwin Williams for quite a while, but dropped it when I found something that was easier to sand (M.L. Campbell's "AguaStar")You also ask if there is an easy way to find a good finish without having to buy it first. My guess is we all have different ways of judging what makes a finish "good", and something that works well for me may not be ideal for you. That being said, I would recommend water based products made by any of the following companies: Target Coatings, General Finishes, Fuhr, M.L. Campbell and Enduro. They all make good products, so which one you choose really depends on what you are trying to do. I'm sure there are other manufacturers who make products that are equal to the one's I've listed above. These are just the one's I'm most familiar with. Unfortunately, the only way to be really sure you've selected a product that will work for you is to test it on scraps first.

   Edited 2/6/2006 12:25 pm ET by AndyCharron1

2. 
   nikkiwood | Feb 07, 2006 03:17am | #17

   Thanks for your help.Unfortunately, the coatings you favor (Target Coatings, General Finishes, Fuhr, M.L. Campbell and Enduro) are available to me only through mail -order. The two big paint stores I frequent, don't carry any of these lines -- except MLC, and then, only their solvent based lacquers. As far as you know, is that generally true across the country? I don't know where you are located, but can you buy any of these brands locally?********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

3. 
   AndyCharron1 | Feb 07, 2006 04:25pm | #18

   I buy my finish directly from Target Coatings. They ship it common carrier, but I am also buying 50 gallons at a time. Are you a pro or a hobbyist? If you are a pro there should be a supplier somewhere in your area that carries a decent water based finish and will sell it by the gallon. If you're a hobbyist you may have a bit more trouble finding a reliable supplier. Unfortunately, mail order may be the only way to go. I would call the manufacturers and see if they can help. If they don't have a local distributor they should be willing to sell to you mail order direct.

4. 
   storme | Feb 08, 2006 10:39am | #19

   ok, I'll bite.Folks here care to recommend online sellers? I did a quick search and found some suppliers but none that stood out.
   thanks, -s

5. 
   SteveSchoene | Feb 09, 2006 07:43pm | #20

   I'm not Andy, but http://www.homesteadfinishing.com sells a very good selection, and also good technical question.  Jeff Jewitt runs this company. 

2. 
   TLF | Feb 03, 2006 09:09pm | #13

   Yeah, I would like it to be possible for me to finish a piece without sneezing, but I looked at the price tag, it seems a little expensive, so I will have to finish up my oil based poly first until I really consider the investment, but I do value my health above all, so that is a big factor to consider....

   Is it much of a problem as far as the duribility of it goes- if it is bumped, will it show, moisture repelling, etc?

1. 
   user-65718 | Feb 04, 2006 12:50am | #14

   I've used the satin and the gloss on some maple and maple-ply box drums for kids I've been building. The get whacked, banged, scratched, stepped on as stools (with and without shoes)and get food placed on them. So far they seem to wear the same as varnishes I've used. I also use the High-Performance which has UV stabilizers.