I just visited the local Woodcraft store and looked at the various finishes there. The Waterlox gloss finish was packaged in a screw top can and appeared to be very “watery” when I shook the can. Is this product a “wipe on” product? The verbage on the can said it could be applied by cloth or brush. (By the way, this was NOT the sealer) The satin version was in a can and also appeared to be low viscosity.
To those who have experience with this product: can it be used to build a film finish?
Thanks, Tom.
Replies
No, the Waterlox Original Gloss (formally gym floor finish) and their Original Satin are full strength products.
Buy only what you need. Both have a short shelf life particularly after they are opened.
Howie,
Waterlox products are used quite a bit in the Fine Woodworking shop, so I can give you a couple of hints about using it. As already noted, Waterlox gels up quickly in the can once it is opened. There are two things that you can do to greatly extend the finish's shelf life.
One is to always pour the amount you need for a job into a separate container and to never pour the leftovers back into the can. Contamination from the brush, and the Waterlox that has started to react with the air while it was in the open container, will trigger the Waterlox in the can to start gelling up if the used finish is mixed with the fresh.
The second is to go out and buy a can of dusting spray meant for blowing dust out of computers and camera equipment. The spray is an inert gas that will displace the air in the Waterlox container. Before you store the Waterlox, unscrew the can's cap and slip the dusting spray's extension nozzle into the can and blow some of the gas in for a few seconds.
Use the dusting spray immediately after you first open the can, once the Waterlox starts to react with the air the gelling process will continue even if you start using the spray later.
The second thing to be aware of is that Waterlox reacts very quickly with air, wadded up rags contaminated with the finish will get warm to the touch in a matter of minutes and will spontaneously catch fire shortly after, so be very careful when using the finish.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
Waterlox finish is quite thin as you've observed. It can be brushed on, but you need to brush it out thin, or it will run. If I understand correctly, the only difference between the sealer/satin/gloss formulations is the amount of resin. I've used just the sealer on a couple of recent projects and have liked it quite well. It took five coats of the sealer to build some gloss, but I liked that I could have that much contol over how much gloss I ended up with. I applied the first coat by flooding the surface until it stopped absorbing then wiping off the excess; 2nd and 3rd coat by wiping; subesquent coats by brushing. I used grey scotch brite between coats. As I understand it, the satin and gloss formulations build gloss in fewer coats than using just the sealer. I would definetly say it builds a film, albeit a thin one, but I like that. Since trying Waterlox, it's the only finish I use other than shellac.
Interesting to read such enthusiasm about Waterlox. I'm going to pursue its use.Just want to interject about satin, clear finishes (to readers in general) . . . the importance of stick stirring those products. As has been stated, the stain finish is dependent on resins ("flattening agents," to be safe in describing). They settle quickly and will take on a soap-like consistency that is virtually invisible in a can, and requires some serious agitation to liquify.
Edited 3/20/2007 11:18 pm ET by InMyOpinion
In my opinion, Waterlox products are very well made varnishes. The Original/Sealer has about 26-27% solids content. (Interestingly enough, the low VOC version -- 345 Grams/liter -- has a lower solids content at 19.2%. Satin has only a modestly higher solids content at 28.1%,, though the low VOC version has 34% solids. The high gloss has significantly more solids at 39.2%, though even this is a slightly lower solids percentage than some full strength varnishes. None of the three core products requires thinning for brushing (unlike full strength varnishes from other makers) and only a little thinning, if any, for wipe on usage for the High Gloss varnish.
Steve,How do the Waterlox products compare with Watco oils -- in terms of content and application?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Waterlox has more solids and will build a film more quickly.
>> How do the Waterlox products compare with Watco oils -- in terms of content and application?They are two totally different products. Waterlox is a varnish. A varnish made from phenolic resin and tung oil.Watco is a product with a small amount of varnish mixed with linseed oil and a thinner.The Waterlox forms a film finish that is durable, highly water resistant and hard. Watco is absorbed into the wood, has little water or water vapor resistance and little durability.That doesn't make Waterlox "better" than Watco. Both have their place. They are just two different types of finishes.Howie.........
That info makes sense to me. Do you have any idea how the Waterlox would compare to a homemade "wiping varnish?" That is, I have used various concoctions over the years combining varnish, mineral spirits, and sometimes BLO in various proportions -- depending on what type of finish I am trying to achieve. I first got this idea years ago from Bob Flexner, since he has always maintained that it is silly to spend the money for a pre-made wiping varnish when it so easy to do your own.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I used a homemade brew of Tung Oil, thinner and varnish up until I discovered Waterlox. I often had trouble getting the finish to dry in reasonable time, but I liked using Tung oil for the way it popped grain; especially in figured woods. I tried using japan drier in my home brew, but never acheived consistent results. The Waterlox produces a finish I like with none of the hassles of brewing my own and acheives the same look. As I mentioned earlier, I like that I can contol the level of gloss by adjusting the number of coats and how they're applied. I've now convinced myself that Waterlox has better equipment and chemists than I have in my basement.
As soon as you start adding BLO or Tung Oil to the mix you are creating a very different product from Waterlox. The more oil you add to the varnish the softer the finish will be, and the less protective. With more than a smidgen you should treat it just as any oil/varnish mix and wipe off all excess after each application so that a film doesn't build.
If you just add thinner to a brushing strength varnish you get much closer to Waterlox, though there aren't many phenolic/tung varnishes out there so the Waterlox is likely to be harder and tougher than most, but also relatively dark, and prone to yellowing, all characteristics of the phenolic resin. Also, with Waterlox, you do have the ability to choose your gloss--from satin (20-25°), to mellow gloss (55°) or quite shiny (85°) depending on whether you use the Satin, Original/Sealer or Gloss, respectively.
Thanks for your info. I think I'll do a little testing with one of my concoctions vs. Waterlox. Largely becasue of your positive words about Waterlox, I did track down some down, which is not readily available in my area.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Do you have any idea how the Waterlox would compare to a homemade "wiping varnish?"Again, Waterlox Original Gloss and Satin IS varnish. If you thin it with mineral spirits or naphtha, it can be made into a wiping varnish. It's no different in that regard from any other oil based varnish.The Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish is already somewhat thinned. I consider it somewhere between an oil/varnish and a wiping varnish. It is softer and less durable than either the Original Gloss or Satin.Howie.........
I used the Waterlox Original on piece today, and I would agree with you that it looks and performs like a thinned out varnish -- one that could either be brushed or wiped. Unless the results are outstanding, I'm thinking I will go back to making my own, since it is so much less expensive than any of the Waterlox products. Thanks for your insights.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I have wondered if making a wiping varnish from Behlens Rockhard would yield similar results as Waterlox. Behlens is the only readily available phenolic resin varnish in my area. At least that I know of.
Nothing ventured........ nothing gained............ <G>********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Is waterlox tough enough for kitchen cabinets?Does it impart a yellow cast the way poly does? i.e., will it make white maple look yellow?Does it yellow over time in sunlight?Mike D - still searching for an alternative to poly for kitchen cabinets (that can be applied with a brush).Edited 3/24/2007 8:58 pm ET by Mike_D
Edited 3/24/2007 10:41 pm ET by Mike_D
Waterlox Original Gloss or Satin is a very hard varnish. It is harder than poly varnishes.It's a phenolic resin varnish. As such it is quite yellow out of the can and will get more yellow over time. Unless you want a pronounced amber tone to a white wood, it is best used on darker woods.If you want a lighter, less amber, varnish, look for Behlen Rockhard. However, ALL varnish is somewhat yellow so test any out on scraps from your project. No tears.Howie.........
Antique Restorers.com has a nice review of Rockhard, but they state that the finish imparts "a beautiful amber color" to the wood, so some yellowing is to be expected with it as well.I actually like a nice amber color - to me that looks like wood, but my wife wants her kitchen cabinets to be PALE maple, thank you, so the search continues.I can get that with both spray-on and/or water-borne finishes, but A) I can't spray for squat (and don't have the tools), and B) we had cabinets finished with water-borne finish that did not hold up to a weekly wipe down with soap and water - it just wore completely away at the edges and where your hand hit's the cabinet when you open the doors.
Hey Tom-
Yes, Waterlox is a very low-viscosity finish. I think that is part of the appeal. I's really easy to work with and can build to a very nice film in a few coats. As you might imagine it builds up quicker on harder woods over soft (i.e. maple over pine). It's really easy to use and I think it works very well.
I just tossed a can 2 weeks ago. It was 8 years old!!! I last used it probably 2 years ago, and it was still ok. I don't recommend that, but my experience is that it lasts longer than one might think.
It does stink to high heaven, though.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
It sounds very much like Fabulon, which was originally a bowling alley floor finish. I use it on occasion and everything you've said about Waterlox, including how long it lasted in an already opened can fits my experience with Fabulon.
Interestingly enough... Fabulon has proven very versatile and I suspect Waterlox would too. Several years ago I had to come up with some way to apply a transparent medium light blue to some plexiglass cases that were part of a Forest Service diarama illustrating the various and sundry biology in a typical mountain stream. The blue was to make it look more like it was a cross section of water and the plex just looked too artificial. After trying a variety of approaches I settled on adding a small amount of blue dye concentrate to the Fabulon, which being a waterborne finish accepted the dye just fine. It adhered amazingly well to the plexiglass and looked great. That was nearly six years ago and last I heard they are still holding up just great.
One of the Waterlox products is a gym floor finish, so I would think that Fabulon and (at least that particular type of) Waterlox aren't too far off in formulation.
Remember going into your high school gym in the fall after school started? The floors were always freshly finished. That's the smell.
Now that I think about it, a bowling alley sees a little more abuse than the average table, doesn't it?
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
Now that I think about it, a bowling alley sees a little more abuse than the average table, doesn't it?
Yeah, especially after a few beers! ;-)
Heck, I don't need the beers...might as well just give me an anvil to bowl with!
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
I bought 2 - 4 liter cans of Original Sealer & Finish earlier last year thinking I could pour it off into smaller containers. I bought a number of the collapsible plastic containers from Lee Valley.
Bad idea. The containers were either not air tight or the product was exposed to enough air during transfer, that it started to gel in all of the containers. Not lots, just enough to be disappointing and to raise concerns about the quality of the product I was working with.
I used it on a piece I made from figured Kentucky Coffee Tree. I rubbed it in with one of those fine sponge backed sanding pads. It went on very nicely and after 3 coats gave a very pleasant look to the piece. I wanted better water resistance than I had been getting from other "tung oil" based products. I also got brave and tried it on some of my oak flooring.
The flooring did not turn out so well. I need more practice. Waterlox definitely does not sow water spotting like Watco, Miwax and Deftoil. It dries ard and retains its soft luster.
It does appear darker coming out of the can. Time will tell if it will yellow. I have some on a window seat and trim around a bay window. Lots of UV and whatever else comes along with daylight.
Next time I'll buy in the 1 quart cans.
Don
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