I have been using Waterlox as a final top coat for a long while. I have been very pleased with Waterlox but the price keeps increasing. It is now quite expensive for just a quart. I have noticed that Watco offers a Tung Oil Finish but I have not used it. Has anyone used the Watco Tung Oil Finish and what do you think of the the result? How does it compare to the Waterlox finish?
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Replies
waterlox is a varnish if i'm not mistaken, and not hard as those go? I've never used it.
I see a reference to an old technical data sheet that says watco tung oil finish is a long oil alkyd plus tung oil. It's hard to know what that means for me (not a chemist) for a dried film - is the tung also cooked with alkyd and linseed or something else as an oil, or is it a varnish and the tung is added as a separate resin and not cooked all into one "finished finish" like a true varnish.
I don't know, but I'd want to see two things with both - one is how hard they are under a fingernail test, and the other is how they tolerate spilled water allowed to dry by evaporation. Any decent varnish will pass that without any evidence other than a mineral stain that might need to be wiped off..but no deglossing or water ingress.
It's possible to make legitimate furniture varnishes for less than you'd pay to buy them, long or short oil, but it's not a two step instant success thing, and it needs to be done outside and there is still some element of danger for the uninitiated.
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If you think varnish is expensive, wait until you buy wood and hardware for a project.
Stick with what you know and like.
I have been buying wood and etc. for over 30 years. Walnut now $12.50 BF Lathe $3000. However, it is always good to keep your eyes and ears open to what is new to me. So do you know anything about Watco Tung Oil Finish?
It's fine. You're going to have to buy some to compare it with what you've been using. Only you will know if you like it. You'll have to spend some money to, maybe, save some money. I don't think Watco has the same amount of varnish resin, which could force you to use more and thus destroy the apparent economics of the thing.
I strongly doubt the Waterlox is gratuitously overpriced vs. the Watco.
Waterlox says it's 33.6% solids. Find that same statistic for the Watco. I couldn't. I bet the Watco is half that, if even half that.
I'm a finishing minimalist -- I don't like measurably thick surface varnish finishes. They rarely look as well to others as they do to the guy who applied it. I'm also my own, worst critic.
Take it all for what it's worth.
The solids information is good to know. I can get the specs from manufacturer for the Watco Tung Oil finish. That is helpful thanks.
Watco is a long oil varnish. Long oil varnishes can be over 50% solids and still very fluid, but they will seem like working with an oil to some extent. The SDS states that 36% is some type of solvent that has to be listed. If there are solvents that are food additives in it, they will smell like oranges or lemons or something else common.
Waterlox probably has some enormously long molecule, similar to the reason that polymerized tung has to be thinned as hard as it is. Raw tung probably penetrates with 1/3 thinner, maybe less. I could figure it out in two minutes, but I'm sure the response wouldn't be used, anyway. There aren't many short molecule varnishes on the market that are legitimate short oil varnishes. The longer the molecule, the more solvent you need to get the varnish to flow out and avoid surface tension problems.
I doubt much work made these days really would benefit from a thin finish with high clarity, so long oil finishes dominate for wipe on and conversion varnish with flattener and color and other such stuff dominates when the finish has to be durable.
I'd hate to see a violin or archtop guitar with a flat looking finish on it, though.
It turns out that the Watco product has twice the solids compared to Waterlox. What is missing is what are the solids. Close to 70% by volume and 65% by weight. However that could be a lot of things so another dead end. I guess I will just have to try some of the Watco to see how it performs.
if the post below is right and it's part long oil varnish but also part uncooked oil, it'll probably be similar to something you'd make of the same type. I've been making varnishes for a couple of years now, and the whole idea confuses me for quality of finishes - cooking everything together will always yield a more durable finish - but paints were definitely made by making a varnish and then adding a lighter slow drying oil - different subject, but it worked in oil paints for a long time to make something that dried to the touch quickly without being sticky like varnish, flowed out and darkened less if the oil was something like refined soybean, walnut or safflower.
None of the consumer products have much cost in materials, though, we're in a different era.
For what the watco stuff costs, though, just pick up a can somewhere and try it. If it's a mix (varnish, solvent, uncooked oil), it sounds like a danish oil with tung without calling it danish oil.
I've used both. Waterlox gives more of a varnish type finish, Watco more of an oiled one. At least that's been my experience. To put it differently, if you rub both of them on with a rag, they'll look similar. If you do that for the first coat but use some sort of applicator (foam, pad, brush) to put on the second coat of Waterlox, it will look a lot more like a varnish -- on top of the wood, not in it, some gloss or lustre (depending on how you rub it out). Watco always looks like an oil to me.
Thank you for the information. That makes sense. So the Watco product has a lot in common with their "Danish Oil" products with some Tung Oil in it. I have used their Danish Oils for a stain on wood like white oak which I like. Then I seal it with Shellac so it doesn't bleed into the topcoat and topcoat it with Waterlox. It is just what I do and I like the luster of the Waterlox and some of the protection the resin provides.
What mschlack describes is more my experience and goes against the varnish solids %'s you quoted.
If you are a craftsman that likes surface build, and likes it to happen sooner rather than later - stick with Waterlox if the choice is between those two products.
You might want to research the offerings from General Finishes.
Yes sort of. What I said was there are a lot more solids listed for the Watco product but they don't list what the solids are. General Finishes makes good products. I have used their oil stains with good results. However, their Seal A Cell is a urethane product. I don't care for it too much as it has a plastic like appearance. It is very popular but not my thing.
I'm not an organic chemist and won't pretend to be one here. The only thing left is to try a few products to see if they're a reasonable substitute for how you like to work, and what you want the end result to look like. As I've mentioned, I'm not in the "wood needs protection" camp. It needs something, of course, but just not a whole lot in my opinion.
The lovely thing is that it won't cost much money to try the Watco product, or anything else for that matter that catches your eye. Hardly makes sense to beat it to death with words. You're looking to save money in the long-run anyway I assume.
Of course, try all new finishing routines and products on a decent sized piece of scrap first, and follow the instructions on the can.
I did notice on the Woodcraft site that a quart of Watco tung oil finish and a quart of Waterlox Original are exactly the same price -- $37.99. Both are probably available cheaper from other places.
long oil varnishes feel more like oil and can be very high solids content and still flow and move/brush easily. If watco is a phenolic varnish more in line with exterior or boat varnish type stuff, it will not flow like a long oil varnish and a much greater volume needs to be thinner. Especially if they are targeting it to people to wipe on - which is what I gather here. a boat type varnish will have a really long varnish molecule for various reasons, too, which gives the finish a sticky feeling when the solvent leaves instead of an oily one.
Watco doesn't say how long oil it is on the product data sheet, just that it's an alkyd resin long oil varnish. it could be 10 to 1 for all we know, and linseed oil that's not polymerized. 100% solids refined linseed oil applies without any thinner and with no issue.