Replies

1. 
   PlaneWood | Mar 20, 2003 06:33am | #1

   Would that tend to keep the 'old hands' further away from the 'newbies'?  If so, then I vote no.

   Hey, if i'm asked a question a dozen times, I might start providing a consistent answer about the 10th time!  :)

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
   PlaneWood

1. 
   SCFrankland | Mar 20, 2003 06:46am | #2

   I would have to say yes and no.  I get a little sick of answering the same questions over and over but if I do recall I did ask the same questions when I first joined Knots.  I really enjoy reading the new topics that have never been touched on before but I find as Andrew said there is to many old questions getting asked that can be answered by a simple search of the archives.Scott C. Frankland

   Was the Newfoundland Wood Worker now the Nova Scotia Wood Worker.

2. 
   BrianMcG | Mar 20, 2003 07:21am | #3

   As a relative "newbie" I hope your "idea" flames out. I need the advice and encouragemnent of the those "old hands" like Sarge, Planewood,Emo, Forestgirl,et al. Live and in color!

   If  I knew all I would find on this forum for FAQ's were a bunch of pat answers I would moving on.

   As it stands now, I can expect good honest answers from the folks I respect who have that very important attribute...experience. Keep it coming friends. Brian

3. 
   Jeff | Mar 20, 2003 04:15pm | #4

   I like the current system.

   Often something is new or added to the question or replies and it

   tends to bring in other people and more ideas and thoughts.

   Jeff

4. 
   rslatm | Mar 20, 2003 06:49pm | #5

   I think it's the wrong solution. I think everyone should search the archives as well as take a look at the homepage and links before they are even allowed to post.  New people asking old questions.  If they  don't search the archives I don't think they are going to look in a new folder.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/20/2003 12:21:22 PM ET by Rick at Arch. Timber and Millwork

1. 
   Andrew | Mar 20, 2003 09:51pm | #6

   Rich, I guess that could be solved by bringing attention to the folder at the home page.

   Anyway, I'm not trying to discourage any newbies from asking questions, but I think that it benefits everyone if they can educate themselves a bit before asking questions, therefore allowing them to be more specific and get better responses. It's like the idea of "give an man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life"

   I would love to discuss the some of the more intricate details of what makes a better tool ect, however, simply saying brand X makes good tools is very subjective, and does little to further anyones woodworking knowledge. Understanding something not just because so and so said it, but because it makes sense will help people answer their own questions, and everyone will benefit. When you're just getting started in woodworking easy answers don't help you to learn.

   Sometimes these threads go off in different directions and bring up some interesting points which I enjoy, however I also have to scan through a ton of replies simply answering the same old questions over and over.

   There is a universal set of opinions found in almost any subject which I will call Andrews Law of Tool Advice. I will attempt to explain the reasoning behind the different opinions that are always seen when asking "which tool should I buy"?

   Some people will always recommend old tools, and the reasoning behind this is that in the past tools were generally built better than they had to be, or for nostalgic reasons. Another plus is that old tools can usually be bought cheaply. Usually these people also tend to be metalheads.

   Some people will always recommend North American made tools, reasoning that the quality is better (which it generally is), or because they like to support American companies. However, made in America isn't always a symbol of quality, even Americans are capable of screwing up (politicians are living proof)

   There's the crowd of people who will always recommend the import brands. There are many different reasons why people recommend them. With the imports quality is hit or miss, and some people are lucky enough to have bought a good machine. Other people buy them and are capable enough to fine tune and modify them to perform well. Others have no idea what it's like to use a quality machine and have nothing to compare it to, or don't know what to expect and so they think the machine is fine. And there are some who just want a tool for a one off job or won't use it much and don't want to pay a lot of money for it. 

   There's the crowd that always recommend the European brands, reasoning that they have better safety features and are designed better. Or maybe they see the price tag and figure it must be a good machine for that kind of money. Others like the fact that they have some very innovative ideas for their machines.

   The last crowd are the guys who will recommend the right tool for the job. They are often few and far between, and are the dedicated tool nuts who have used every tool from every brand and have learned tools inside out. They know what makes a good tool, and choose their tools accordingly. These are the guys to really listen to.

   It'd be nice to know where people are coming from when they offer you advice. It also helps to know who your talking to in order to give advice which is difficult when you haven't really met someone. It's much easier to teach someone who has some woodworking knowledge than someone who is totally clueless. Everyone is a beginner at some point, however you can learn a lot faster by asking the right questions. My idea isn't intended to separate newbies from the experienced, but to allow them to get the basic answers so they'll be comfortable jumping right into the discussions.

2. 
   forestgirl | Mar 21, 2003 12:48am | #8

   Wow, that's a pretty drastic move!  forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 21, 2003 01:46am | #9

      I think FG's approach is the most realistic. You have the option to by-pass or pause and answer. IMO, I would be reluctant to tell my younger child that I have already answered that question with his older brothers and sisters. Please check with them or seek the answer at the library.

      As long as questions are asked, I will continue to answer. I would hate to think my hobby turned to skeet shooting cause someone wouldn't take the time to answer my sincere entry questions. I personally would not want the epitath on my tombstone to read, "He just didn't have the time or patience to insure a future for WW". ha..ha..

   Ya'll take care...

   sarge..jt

1. 
   SgianDubh | Mar 21, 2003 03:12am | #10

   Sarge, for many years I was involved in the teaching of furniture design and making subjects up to MA level-- and I wouldn't mind getting back into it actually. I miss that side of things.

   Every year we got a fresh batch of students in. We taught them essentially the same stuff we taught what were, by then, second year students. The second year students were taught much the same stuff that we'd taught the now third year students, etc., etc., ad infinitum, all the way up to MA level.

   I tend to think there is no need for a new folder, like you. If I feel like answering a question, even if it's been posted twenty times before, I will. If I don't feel like it, or don't have time, I'll just lurk. I'm not getting paid here to supply answers, unlike my old job-- I do it for fun, and if I don't feel like getting involved, I won't.

   I've got so mellow about it after all these years hanging about Knots, that when I see complete and utter bollox put up as an answer to a question, I usually just ignore it, ha, ha-- it's not my problem, after all. The one exception to that might be if someone advocates using a stupidly dangerous technique, where I might say something. So bring on the new guys is all I say.  Slainte.Website    The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh.

1. 
   forestgirl | Mar 21, 2003 03:29am | #11

   "We taught them essentially the same stuff we taught what were, by then, second year students. The second year students were taught much the same stuff that we'd taught the now third year students, etc., etc., ..."

   The above reminds me of the years I spent teaching riding lessons to prepare students for dressage instruction.  The same stuff over and over and over again.  Still, it was always rewarding to see each student improve, watch the Lightbulb go on over the head, see confidence building.  Some of us like to teach, explain, and re-phrase until an interested student "gets it." 

   After about 2 years of the above, there weren't many new and interesting experiences except when a couple from Germany stopped in and wanted a few lessons.  They spoke no English, I spoke no German, but the boss' mother spoke Swedish, German and English.  I would tell her "Heels down" "Thumbs Up" "Sit more on your seat, less on your crotch" "relax your hips" and she would translate to German via Swedish and pass their comments back to me.  Too much fun.  Hope they weren't cussing!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 21, 2003 03:57am | #13

   Jamie

      Ya da Lady.. See my post to Richard for explanation. I have a feelin' you fit the profile. ha..ha..

   cheers...

   sarge..jt

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Mar 21, 2003 03:51am | #12

   Richard

      Ya da man. Not all enjoy a teaching role. It can be repetitive as you stated. The one's that are good at it are those that enjoy the rewards it brings. The rewards don't buy you vacation homes around the world. It is the simple reward of helping others to take a step forward. This gives the teacher a feeling of gratification which pushes them a step further in their own journey to enlightenment. It is the inner feeling of satisfaction they feel knowing that their foot-steps are being carefully traced by the student. And the student is breaming with respect for that teacher who bothered to share the map to the promised land. 

      A paycheck puts a roof over your head. Respect from others puts a roof over your soul...

      Thanks for all the help so far... And don't go anywhere, I'm not through asking questions yet. ha..ha..

   sarge..jt

5. 
   forestgirl | Mar 21, 2003 12:46am | #7

   IMO, no need to do this.  I agree that it would tend to isolate the newbies, who are our lifeblood of the future.  Besides, no one has to answer, or even read,  any given post.  If a Senior Knothead finds a topic boring, it only takes a click of the mouse to go to another more stimulating topic.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

6. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Mar 21, 2003 10:11pm | #14

   I'll preface this by saying that: 'No, I don't have time either."

   Perhaps if not a folder, but a collection of articles, so if someone asks a question for the hundredth time, they could be referred there for the bulk of the information.

   Cheers,

   eddie

7. 
   jjf | Mar 21, 2003 10:34pm | #15

   Many of the same old questions have a slight original twist and opinion change on equipment just as the equipment changes some.

   i vote no newbie folder

1. 
   Andrew | Mar 22, 2003 01:48am | #16

   Maybe the folder could contain reviews and tutorials then? I find tutorials extremely helpful, and you often can find most of the information you need right away.

   I don't have a problem with new woodworkers, in fact I have helped out teaching in a couple high school shops (gr 11-12's). The thing I can't stand is when they just want you to do it for them, and need instant gratification. However, every now and then someone will show an interest, and will go out of their way to learn more. Not only is it easier to teach these people, I also find they, as well as myself, learn a lot more this way.

   Woodworking isn't for everyone. It takes a lot of determination and practice to get good. If all someone wants are easy answers, are they really interested in learning?

1. 
   Splintie | Mar 22, 2003 09:40pm | #17

   The funny part of this is that i've been around here long enough to see the topic of THIS thread beat to death!

   Fa-la-la-la-la...

1. 
   forestgirl | Mar 22, 2003 11:36pm | #18

   THAT was a good one Splintie!!!!  So true!!!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Splintie | Mar 23, 2003 03:51am | #19

   I looked at your profile, Jamie--looks like you were here since our Change of Life. Were you here in the WebX days, too? How long?

   I started out at Breaktime mid-1999 with a few tentative posts in the Tavern about the Ten Commandments being posted in the schools. I'm still waiting for something controversial to happen in Knots.

2. 
   forestgirl | Mar 23, 2003 07:33pm | #20

   Hi Splintie, I can't remember how long I was around during WebX -- well, let's see I "sychronized" some off-line stuff in Jan/01.  Used my first name and initial for user name. 

   I hope that's your tongue in your cheek in the last sentence!  IMO, what controversies we've had at Knots have been lively enough.  I didn't even venture into the last fray. 

   Soph just wandered in -- she can smell the biscuits that came out of the oven.  Better go hide them from her!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)