Hi Everybody…
I apologize about my complaint here, but it was waaaay long overdue and BP’s closing news triggered this post.
This forums format, in my opinion as well as many others’ from the ww’ing forum communities, is found to be very confusing and difficult to navigate.
Is there any possibility to change the software/format that somewhat resembles to PB or WC formats so we can contribute here, or at the least more often.
Registration had a problem with my e-mail address, saying that it was used before, it is [email protected] in case you want to e-mail me.
Thanks for listening and once again, I meant no offense to anyone.
Chico…
Replies
My understanding is that the Knots and other Taunton forums follow a "Prospero"-designed format. Since it's a small part of a big picture, I'd not hold out much hope for major changes.
Many of us found it difficult to navigate at first, and many may still. Personally, I've figured out the many ways that it actually enhances my ability to browse and find things, check up on high-priority threads and such.
If you have questions about navigating, post a note in Gen. Discussion or Cafe, we'll help you out.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Chico,
I don't intend to be critical or argumentative, but I really fail to understand the nature of the problem at this forum as you see it.
One simply logs in, clicks on messages, chooses which messages to view, then replies to an existing post or starts a new one as often as they wish. It all seems rather straight forward to me, someone who, only having used a computer a couple years, is far from being "computer literate".
Perhaps you could elaborate a bit more.
Jeff
Sorry, Chico. I disagree. Badger Pond's format stank, and I'm not too fond of WoodCentral's similar clickety, clickety, click style either. Some of the reasons why I didn't visit Badger Pond were because of the lousy format, and the user posted tool gloat things are/were yawn inducing to the n'th degree, and I found the censorious, holier than thou, I know better than you, atmosphere very claustrophobic-- hence I avoided the place like a bad dose of the clap. You can hide a wealth of information that you know nothing about when you censor it vigorously. I stick with Woodcentral because I've taken a bit of shine to some of the characters there, and it's extremely lightly censored by an enlightened moderator.
The format here at Knots sucks a bit too in terms of following a thread, and who's responding to whom, and from that point of view it's not a patch on what it used to be about 18 months ago under the old WebX format-- except that about a year or so back, the darned thing broke down a lot, so Prospero seems to win out on reliability, ha, ha, if not on user friendliness.
So here you are, Chico as an exPonder(?) looking for a new home, and this forum doesn't match what you're used to. We can get pretty rough in here, and a thin skin won't do you any good. Hang around for a while mate, and you'll eventually get used to it. It's like buying a new video recorder, that you need to spend some time getting used to-- it doesn't work like the old one.
You might also get used to characters like me, that are definitely not politically correct, and more than willing to slug it out with anybody,---- and I don't (think I) need a moderator to keep me on the straight and narrow of boring woodworking topics. Jings, I trained for, and qualified for that nearly 30 years ago, and do it for a living. I come here to tell lies, goose people up the wrong way, belch, fart, drink beer, and occasionally answer a serious question with a serious answer.
Now. Should I put in a few of those winky or smiley things in to indicate that my tongue is buried deeply in my cheek? Slainte.
Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Well Richard, (Sgian..correct?)
First of all, I'm surprised if you're really Sgian from WC.(that I know of...) Why different names? Anyway, you never sounded like this, kinda aggressive, so that's why I am surprised.
I have no trouble finding a new forum. So many people (approx. 60~70 as I found out via e-mail survey) were complaining about this forum's format and I was being a messanger, that's all.
No need to talk about BP and how that place was and all, because I'm solely talking about the technical aspect of this forum, nothing else.
I've been around since 1995, haven't built a thick skin yet, but developped some repellents! ;-)
Chico...
Hi Chico. Didn't realize from your original post that you were speaking for many. Here's my humble assessment: people don't like change! Man! If you had been around when Knots converted to the Prospero format you'd have seen some fireworks! and some (actually, lots and lots and lots) of whining!
Anywho, this resistance to change is going to be compounded in the case of you and your buddies at BP due to the fact that you've lost a valued and enjoyable place to hang out. So here some of you are in this framed, button-laden high-tech environment, meeting new people, or old people with evidently new personas. Not fun.
Based on what took place here the first weeks after the change, there will probably be a significant period of grumping and groaning and general irritation, but eventually people will find the forum they like and learn to navigate it, be it Knots, WWA, Wood or wherever.
Hope to see you around!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yeah, I'm that Sgian character from WC, Chico-- I haven't dropped into WC for a couple of days-- been fairly busy. I was just in the process of changing my name there too, when there was a big influx of new visitors, so I decided I'd better hang on to the Sgian Dubh handle for a while as all the old WC regulars were used to it, and I didn't want to add further to the confusion.
There are certainly user unfriendly aspects to this forums layout-- It's hard to follow a discussion, especially with regards to who is replying to whom (as I mentioned earlier) but you can click on the Outline button above and make the discussion threaded, slightly similar to the style at WC, and rather similar to the style at BP-- okay, I admit it. I did visit there once every few weeks or months just to see what was going on, but never registered as a user and never posted.
I tend to reserve my ability to be cantankerous, goosing people up the wrong way, and the like for this woodworking forum-- I suspect that habitue's(sp?) of Knots have rather got used to it, but that new visitors will find it a little disconcerting. If I rubbed you up the wrong way, I apologise for that lack of judgement and insensitivity on my part. I guess I throw out a half decent response to a question once in a while to make up for my goofing around and mickey taking activities.
I'd assumed my reference to maybe sticking in smilie's and winkie's in my earlier post would convey the message that I was on a wind-up mission, but perhaps I failed to properly give that impression-- my error. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned I can't imagine that this forum would extend anything other than a generous welcome to all, whether they be old hands, or new visitors.
I'm surprised you got 60 or 70 emails complaining about this forums format, but perhaps you publish your email address in forums. I've always been a bit secretive on that front, and never put my email address as a direct link attached to a posting or topic, and even if I attach it somehow, it's always disguised a wee bit.
I think Sarge would like me to close with, "I think I need a drink." And tonight, I'm going for one, or four, ha, ha. Slainte.
Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Richard
"I think I need a drink". I love it. If the article in WoodWork and one of your post were not signature, that alone would tell me who it was. ha..ha.. I break out in hysterical laughter ever time I see it.
Have a good evening and go for the four, that will leave 2 for breakfast.
" I think I need a laxative". ha..ha.. Hush Splintie, I know you're gonna capitalize on that one.
sarge..jt
Richard,
"Don't go changin'...". I don't post much, but the most obvious errors I've made must have been in taking anything seriously. You get plenty of good advise across. Cantankerisms (a word derived from the same code your fellow Texan, W., used to formulate "strategery"), hit the spot much better somehow.
But seriously, could you say which Woodwork edition number contains your article referenced so much here and there lately? I going to subscribe and wish to order it as a back issue. Still waiting for the upcoming F&C with the details of the leg shoulder details on your bed.
Off for an I.P.A., but not four.
Cheers,
Greg
p.s. Should it have been cantankerisa?
Greg
Maybe I can assist. WoodWork April edition #80, which is only printed on the inside on the first page or so. I have to get them at Borders Book Store here in Atlanta. I bought another one 2 nites ago and it it still on the rack. Don't know where you are, but Barnes and Nobles, Borders, etc. should have it. And yes, it's cheaper to subscibe than have to go hunting.
Hope this helps. The article is great even though the author did not close it appropriately with "After all this finishing, I think I need a drink". ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Sarge has answered the Woodwork question, Greg, (and the issue number is printed on the spine, by the way Sarge) but regarding the technique for the leg you seem to like, F&C issue 74 will (hopefully) cover that construction strategy-- it should be out in about a month or six weeks. I got my issue 73 just last week, which was a bit earlier than normal-- I'm a subscriber too.
I can never tell what a magazine will publish. I just send off the manuscript, sketches, photo's and any other rubbish, which usually includes quite precise details of such things, and the editor decides what he/she wants to publish, so if the leg construction bit is omitted, it's not because I didn't provide the information.
I don't need a drink, but I think I'd like one anyway. Slainte. Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
'tis done. Subscribed today, and April will be the first one. So thanks, Sarge, and R.J..
My F&C also came a bit early and was a bit light, by my reckoning. Maybe just a figment.
Loud and clear about the vagaries of publishing. I'll wait and see. By the way, I did see a few College of the Redwoods projects which had a variation of that leg detail. It appeared on a low table and a couple of display case stands. Very nice when done crisply. Visually, kind of recedes and invites the eyes to seek out what it supports (in the case of the stand).
Cheers to all,
Greg
Not pinching my design inspirations are they, Greg? Any links? I haven't seen it. I'd better check 'em out, ha, ha. --- cheeky b*ggers if they are. Slainte.Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Pinch? More of a cosmic convergence, I suspect. I checked the website very quickly and didn't see images of the design feature I mean. I'll check With Wakened Hands at home and see if there is anything close there. What I do remember seeing was a stand with straight legs, about 2 inches square, with shoulders sculpted in within about 1 1/4 inches from the top. They were not sculpted in their length at all, as in your bed post and [stile] design on the chest of drawers I saw recently (in Woodwork?). I'll let you know if I find an image. Subtle, but elegant.
Cheers,
Greg
Richard,
All right, I've done my homework. I emphasize, the only aspect of the design I found similar was the sort of "cut in" shoulder. Your foot board legs feature other elements, but then the visual purposes are different.
Starting in the obvious place (which is why I overlooked it), check out Yeung Chan's display case on the back cover of FWW #161. It is difficult to see from that photo, but the upper legs terminate in a sort of sculpted in shoulder.
Here is another beautiful cabinet on stand by Michael Burns:
http://www.crfinefurniture.com/1pages/grads/burns/warrior.html
It is also sort of hard to tell from the photo, but the legs terminate in the same understated but elegant way.
I never understood what the fuss over JK-and-students' work was all about until seeing some for myself. With Wakened Hands doesn't approach the experience, but has lots of design inspiration. Not that anyone would actually pinch any uninvited.
cheers,
Greg
p.s. If you ever see a copy (it is not written in the same fashion as his other books) check out the pearwood small display cabinet by Greg "Barney" Smith on pg. 50. My eyes consistently dwell on that one. Very pleasing.
Thanks, Greg for the research, the link, and the tips. I see the slight similarity in the leg, but it's quite different really, and made before my versions. Maybe I copied him ha, ha? I know I didn't, but it's surprising how often designers (artists, etc,) hit upon similar design ideas. Slainte.Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
"Nothing in this world is unique...."
The above is quoted from our respected friend, David Charlesworth, who noticed a workbench design in Scott Landis' book which was similar to his own superb design, itself a further development of a bench used by his teacher, Ted Baly.
You understand now why the only feature I found similar in your legs was the shoulder. I'd like to learn the best way to execute that, in general, because I can imagine lots of places where it could be useful. All in good time.
I wonder if Chico has yet resolved that you really are Sgian Dubh? Long ago, I'm sure. 'Makes this an odd place for this discussion....
Cheers,
Greg
Richard
Never noticed that # on the spline. Thanks. BTW, when I picked up the extra copy of WoodWork, picked up the F & C. I assume you are referring to Furniture and Cabinet Making printed in England.? Not bad. I was not aware of it. It was interesting to the point I decided to subscribe. Different prespective and I've never seen so many Elu's being used before. I have always liked Elu as one was given to me years ago by an English engineer I became friends with. He had come over to Lockheed Aircraft here in Ga. to work on the then C5A project in the early 70's. He stayed after the project.
I assume, from what you mentioned to Greg that you submit to that mag also. BTW, the Sedgefield caught my eye. Is it considered good, great, mediocre, etc. I am not familar at all, even though I am aware of the brand name. If you have time, not a biggie.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Yes, Sarge, Furniture & Cabinetmaking. Do you mean Sedgwick? Pretty good medium duty heavy plant on the whole from what I can learn. I'd guess their TA 315 saw about equates with a Powermatic PM 66, but it maybe cuts a bit deeper, is (I think?) a bit more powerful, and comes with a wee sliding table. I don't know what they cost, but I'd guess around $2,500- $3,000. They make bigger saws too. Take a look at the Startrite tools inside the front cover. Whacky looking saws, aren't they? Unfortunately, they don't seem to come cheaply.
Elu routers? There are furniture makers in the UK that swear by the darned things, and they've been running and repairing them for 20 years or more-- I can't say for the rest of Europe though, but when I lived in the UK up until the early '90's, Elu's were about the only router I'd use.
Elu haven't had a brand name of their own in a few years, and they've been taken over by Black and Decker (I think) and the garish wasp look, aka, DeWalt. Whatever it was that the old Elu mob gave up in quality to become subsumed into the DeWalt name, they certainly made up for in advertising expenditure.
If you sniff around that magazine, you'll find some references to Trend stuff. Trend were known for making fairly good router bits and router accessories. Many of Trend's accessories were aimed at Elu users.
You'll see that Trend make a router or two, which they didn't do until the early to mid nineties, but their colour scheme, interestingly, is light grey, and dark grey-- and they generally look a bit like the old Elu style, so maybe there's a hint at the market they (Trend) are aiming for, ha, ha. I have no idea how good a Trend router is though. Slainte.Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Richard
Yes, I did mean Sedgewick. I caught that after I posted. The Startrite looks very intereting, but probaly well above the price I could justify from the usage I would give it.
I was aware of the DW-Elu situation. I just bought the 621 2 HP after using a freinds. I love the base, controls and the overall balance for hand-held operations with a plunge. The plunge mechanism is IMO, the smoothest on the market. How it holds up over-all remains to be seen.
I have found the Hitachi M12V 3 1/2 HP to be my best suited table mount. At $199 it is a work-horse that adapts well to the table and a real bang for the buck. The 621 falls short on the table but tall in your hand. Can't make a 60 tooth preform the job a 24 flat was designed for. Unless you dream a lot. ha..ha
Thanks for your time and reply...
sarge..jt
Richard
Just a note. I caught from this post to Greg that you just got F & C # 73. My local Borders is current in that case. I got #73. On page 96 showing what's coming next month, Richard Jones makes his bed and lies in it. I didn't notice till I was thumbing through this morning.
I will wait and see if by the expression "lies in it" we are talking prone or the usual shenanigans we are used to seeing here at Knots. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Hi Sarge/RJ,
What shenanigans are you referring to when you mention 'lies in it'.
RJ doesn't normally talk through his hat . . .
Cheers from the aussie barsteward,
eddie
eddie
Just rubbin' him of course. He's always telling newcomers he likes to come here to fart, belch and tell lies. I haven't seen any yet, but having quite a few English friends here in Atlanta that got trans-planted for the old C5A project back in the 70's, you never know when they might begin. They can get a bit rowdy, especially around the rugby field. ha..ha..
If you though I was serious, relax. Rarely been accused of that. Richard has given me quite a bit of an education from his post and helped me understand a few things like the short fence (which I adapted and refuse to give up). He was patient enough to explain the riving knife and crown gaurd. He recently confirmed a method was sound that I was going to use on a project I have never attemped before. My estimation of it should work turned to "I know it will work".
What I'm saying is, I have nothing but admiration for his talents and knowledge of this craft. Now this is beginning to sound like a testimonial. And I am not getting paid to say all these nice things. Well, enough of that being nice stuff, let's get back to being rowdy and beligerous.
After being this nice, I think I need a drink.. ( And I haven't drank in 25 years) ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Sarge, stop it. I think I really need a drink after that buttering up job of yours. :-) Slainte.Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Richard
Ha... And you deserve everything we've slung at you so far. Country boy does not speak with forked tongue. The entire text of that post is the gospel. I have learned some things over the last year by following your post that I might not have ever known. After 30 years I'm not all that bad a WW, but I am a better one today than I was 9 months ago. Thanks.
I felt bad when eddie posted not sure if I was taking a slam. I have a feelin' he doesn't catch too many of my post to Splintie, FG, Tooldoc, Dennis, BG and a host of others. We try to keep it light and like to poke fun. I was sure you would interpret correctly or I wouldn't make a joke like that. I am not here to offend anyone. It's not my nature.
Know your busy so I will get back to the shop. Looking forward to the article in F&C. I almost didn't recognize you on the cover of WoodWork. Didn't have those yellow safety glasses on. I noticed in F&C the picture telling about your article next month that you were sporting the amber. ha..ha..
I think I need a laxative...
sarge..jt
Hi Sarge,
No, I'm not taking it seriously, just the Australian sense of humour is very dry and a bit too dry at times for an international audience to understand. Sorry for that.
I'm going down to the club for a beer (seriously).
Catch you there - if you don't make it I'll have the beer I ordered for you too.
Cheers,
eddie
(sweltering under the heat again)
eddie
And you probaly will have mine too. I learned back in 68 and 69 when I came a calling down under about the sense of humor. I was sitting at an outside cafe in King's Cross in Sydney having a beer. Someone popped me in the back of the head with their open palm. I turned an it was a bird ( I hope you are old or you won't get the 60's language). I asked her what she did that for. I believe the reply was, "cause I want to go out with you". ha..ha.. so.......
I got a kick that the pub's were open 23 hours a day. They would close at 6 a.m. for one hour to clean up. Everyone would buy about 3 beers and go stand on the sidewalk outside till they opened back up. I loved every minute of your country. Hope to make it back someday.
Yep, better grab those beers while the heat is still sweltering. Bad news is, gonna be getting a little taste of fall and winter down your way soon. Good news is, they don't close the pubs in fall and winter.
Well, I've razzed people from 3 continents today. Guess I'll get back to the shop. I'll catch the other 4 tomorrow. Or have they added one or two since I went to school. ha..ha..
Cheers...
sarge..jt
goosing people up the wrong way, .....rubbed you up the wrong way......
gees Richard your going to get Jamie and Colleen all worked up with that sort of talk!
TDF
I doubt it Tom. SG is too cynically worldly wise, and FG isn't daft enough for that kind of nonsense, ha, ha. Slainte.Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh
Richard
I believe you pretty well covered the entire gambit, but as in that great article in WoodWork; I was disappointed that one thing was left out. In closing in both cases I was kind of hoping for a " I think I need a drink." ha..ha..
Other than that, you are found guilty of creating a real piece of work on both counts. Jury dismissed and drinking allowed at this time.
Evening...
sarge..jt
Always a pleasure.
Chico,
I, for one, really don't care for the format Badger Pond used, to the point that I didn't care to visit the forum. I find it much more inconvenient to use than the Prospero format.
I see that you have just recently joined this site, so perhaps, if you give it a chance, you may find it more workable than you expect.
In the upper frame there's a row of buttons, Start, Log In, Log Out, Messages, Outline. Try the Outline button and see if that's closer to what you're looking for.
Chico
If you will be patient and use a little feild expendiency you won't have a problem with the format. I'm a total computer illiterate and within 2 days figured it out and haven't had any trouble since. Trust me, if I can navigate it-- anyone can.
Your call...
sarge..jt
Chico have a look at Trainorders.com and see if you think this may be an easyer format, which taunton may be able to adjust to in some form.
Chico: as a fellow Ponder I say Welcome to Knots,just settle in and enjoy..
Welcome aboard Chico! As many have said your attitude is very similar to the concensus when we changed from Web-X to Prospero. Give this a chance though. Many of the people, including myself who are telling you this complained in the beginning. Now we are stepford woodworkers. Willing not only to take joy in the agony of this forum's format but ot sell newcomers on it. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
TDF
Thank you ALL... I'll stop by here more frequently. This software/format looks very different, but it has some nice features. You're right, it's a matter of getting used to it.
Chico...
I use IE
I opened the discussion list in a new window and then saved to favorites so I don't get all the stuff at the top or the two frames. Opened threads in new window so that is all I see. Do have to go back and forth,
Don't use the outline view much to see who is responding to who, but probably could do the same there.bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet
That is an excellent call. Now---ya da man.....
sarge..jt
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